Suggestions for a better pvp experience

tbhdk2 · February 2015

*Disclaimer: Maybe some of these are not even possible because to few people play pvp.

But here are my shots:

1. Earn points every 3 seconds or so while standing on an enemy controlled point.

2. Earn more points for kills

3. Earn points for being near the enemy - the more enemies you are in combat range of - the more points you earn.

4. Make a bronze - silver - gold bracket in pvp eg. Bronce from 12 - gs. silver 13-17 gs. Gold 18+.

5. Make two seperate queue systems - one where premades is allowed, and one were premades - even 2 people queeing together is not allowed!

6. Alternatively reward people that solo queue with bonus glory.

7-8-9 etc. Bring it on:

fantasycharacter · February 2015

I like 4 and 5 the best, but most are good!

6 - people should not be rewarded less or more for playing the same content in a different manner.

tbhdk2 · February 2015

magenubbie wrote: »

1. I don't see the reason of such a change. What are you trying to accomplish with it?
2. No thanks. The game is called Domination, not "who's the better killer".
3. See 1.
4. We've been down that path more often than I care to count, and GS brackets won't work and only increase the waiting time for a match. Low geared puggers might benefit from this, but that's about it.
5. So you want to restrict players from teaming up until they get a certain GS? no thanks. Discrimination is never a good thing.
6. See 1. The wallet warriors don't care about glory.
8. Create a challenge room where any team can challenge another team (within reason of course). Problem solved.

1-3. That it is actually worthwhile to leave the campfire in a game where 5 opponents are free to hunt you.

5. I dont see any discrimination - just asking for a option to avoid meeting nasty premades with 3 x 8k gs people in my team. As i hinted in my disclaimer it it likely not possible cause to few people play pvp - However why should people play pvp when again and again they get rolled over by premades or people 10 k higher than them. If it keep going like this maybe even fewer will play pvp - considered that?

6. But for other people earning glory is vital for earning pvp artifacts and gear.

tbhdk2 · February 2015

magenubbie wrote: »

It is already. The problem lies in the lopsided matches, not the value of playing the game itself. The rewards are more or less on par with PvE, and I think that's fine.

As a matter of fact, I have. See my 8. Restricting features isn't the answer. Creating better options is.

And they can do so just fine as it is. Again, the problem lies in the lopsided matches, not the value of playing.

I say currently these totally unbalanced matches make up more than the majority of the matches - probably due to the pvp base is shrinking and the whales and premades fill more in the base.

I think 1 in 5 matches I play down to skill and strategy whether one team lose or win. Some months ago you could play 4-5 matches like that in a row.

So I say under the current circumstances the system doesnt work.

As for your solution I dont think every whale wants a challenge - but want to keep facerolling new people to this game as long as the game support this.

I heard again and again that people find pvp fun on low levels - but not so after reaching lvl 60 due to unbalanced pvp.

spookholio · February 2015

I like the idea of a separate queue, pre-made (and partial premade) and everyone else just a PUG queue.

For the PUG queue I'd really like to see it sorted by GS, irrespective of the class make-up. I think the way the system is now, example 2 rogues per team, or 2 clerics per team is contributing to the overall match-up imbalance because this totally ignores Gear Score. While GS may not be an exact indicator of skill (Yes, at 19k I still get my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> handed to me by really good 15k's) it is a baseline area to start.

This game has the mechanics to feature some of the best pvp out there, but the all too prevalent one sided match-ups are hurting the game.

My hunch is that if these types of changes were implemented the overall population in this game would increase!

svekolj · February 2015

well, don't know about level 60 but fixing the ones before lvl 60 is easy

impose level restrictions to enchantments
like you can't have weapon enchantments until 60
you can't have rank 6 before 40 you can't have rank 7 before 55 etc...

I feel that would level the playing field a lot and also not torture the newly arrived players needlessly

jaotut · February 2015

I disagree with most of the points, but I think adding a seperate premade queue, with its own pvp tasks (for titles) and leaderboard would be great and encourage people to do more premades.

Adding to the suggestions:

9.Everytime you die and respawn at campfire, you receive a random stat buff (+300). This buff stacks up to 5-10 times. All buffs are removed once you have gain a kill or assist.

I think giving the losing team a boost in stats would balance the matches and encourage people to not give up as easily.

10. Only rainbow parties are allowed.

kangkeok · February 2015

I m a PVE player from the start. Then i heard about how small the pvp community is and how broken pvp is after mod 5 that alot is avoiding doing it. I dun belief its that bad as other project it and so i gave it a try. I started doing domination and Gaunt 90% of my login time. It was fun and it isnt that bad as other people were saying and yea i expected to die alot coz i m a **** that just started to learn pvp. The player is cool and we makes play alot by helping each other out. As my GS went up from 11k to 16k, the comunity started to change. I find more toxic player in higher bracket of GS that cry at teammate, trash talk among team, the blammer, the hater and they tend to get mad alot calling everyone noobs. The game is no longer casual and its more like matter of life and death. I mean i kill a HR with my dps DC and he start trash talking and mad as if i just kill his mother. THIS, this is what turn me off from pvp. Its not once i seen this type of behavior in my recent match up..its been happening almost like 3 out of 5 match since i got my GS to 16k. I just feel the community above 16k isnt healthy and very toxic. PVP just isnt fun anymore with everyone took it so seriously and got mad so easily. So i went back PVE.

overdriver13 · February 2015

magenubbie wrote: »

Welcome to the world of "my poopdeck goes deeper than yours" that people call PvP. There's always gonna be grievers just as there's always gonna be cheaters (or people who will try to) in every game. Doubly so in PvP. Nothing anyone can do to change that. It's an attitude thing. E-peen, anonymity and not having to be held responsible for your actions online does that to some people.

But I'm fairly sure that most PvPers didn't spend 5k per character just to stomp over newbies. They do want that challenge and they want it at the highest level possible. I'm confident that if you give these wallet-warriors the ability to truly compete among eachother, they will show very little interest in stomping newbies. It's really no different from PvEers who want a challenge fitting to the power they've gained, minus the ego.

But feel free to not take my word for it. My beliefs don't require you to. Just make a poll and see for yourself.

I'm not at all sure how it is ok to constantly slam pvp players. You say discrimination is always a bad thing yet you constantly discriminate against pvp players by openly insulting them. I love how in any part of society those who cry the loudest about discrimination are those who discriminate the most. But thats ok, to them, because to them, their own discrimination is justified.

overdriver13 · February 2015

I do not think there should be a solo que. It is a team game. When people actually MAKE TEAMS to play the TEAM GAME, those who solo que get upset like something unfair is going on.

This game is really odd because most of the players act like they are playing a single player game and are forced into these occasional awkward group situations where they finish the group-content as quickly as possible and get their little daily ad and then run away back to the predictable, friendly, scripted, and utterly one-dimensional land of npcs with as little socialization as possible.

More than any other aspect of the game, pvp requires that the players are social. If you are social you will form teams. If you form teams (premade) you are more likely to win.

One gets the feeling that solo players who get upset about premades feel left out of some kind of social circle which they really have made absolutely no effort to involve themselves in the first place. "Oh those people are horrible". Really? Remove "those" from the sentence and you get a more honest expression of players sentiment and the reason why they get rolled as pugs.

Maybe it has something to do with it being a fantasy game and pvp simply breaks the fantasy of the player-character as some invincible hero. Instead of Bildo the friendly munchkin king saying how great you are and how his kingdom of munchkins just couldn't wait for you, the mighty hero, to arrive and save them all (despite how many times you utterly failed), you get "Yermumblowz", a twisted naked halfling wearing a jack-0-lantern head with 3x your gs and insane skills telling you how much a knub you are, that you blew it for your team, and that you need to learn to play before quing pvp".

So ya, pvp more than any other area of the game, involves this dangerous notion of the expectations and standards of others(oh what toxic things!), more often than not rammed down your throat with a string of expletives.

So I can see why people hate pvp and find "those people" weird and scery. They are real people, all the good and bad, with real standards and expectations and anyone who hides under the dress of his wizard character in a fantasy mmo to escape the painful (and ultimately rewarding) social reality of everyday life is in for a huge shock the second they enter the domination arena.

PvP is a lot more like hitting the basketball court in a crappy neighborhood after work for a "pickup game" of hoops, than it is a high medieval fantasy wish-fulfillment mmorpg. Suddenly the IT guys are getting batted all over the place and their balls busted (as people will bust balls as a part of sport) and wonder how the heck they got there.

Wanna make pvp really fun? Make the top leaderboard people the bosses at the end of dungeons for the pve players to attack. THAT would be fun.

theevilskeever · February 2015

kangkeok wrote: »

I just feel the community above 16k isnt healthy and very toxic. PVP just isnt fun anymore with everyone took it so seriously and got mad so easily. So i went back PVE.

Sadly, there's absolutely nothing devs can do about the community. I enjoy criticizing Cryptic in general, but this is the one thing they have zero control over. And, really, devs can't be blamed that pvpers are toxic. If you enjoyed PvPing, I may suggest switching the chat off and not using it, when possible. Not really convenient, but makes you feel way better.

Also, OPs suggestions are absolutely pointless. Only way to "fix" (make enjoyable) Neverwinter's PvP is to rebuild it completely. Bandaids don't work and won't work.

benskix2 · February 2015

I don't think anyone would care about premade vs solo queue if the matches were even. Anyone can find people to queue with, problem is it takes longer to find a match and the matches are worse.

grumblesmorf · February 2015

The lack of brackets is really the biggest problem. People say they don't work because it increases wait times? Well, the wait times are so high because there aren't any brackets. What do I mean? You see, most people don't want to queue for PvP when it's just a 50/50 chance of either getting roflstomped or being on the team that's doing the roflstomping. That's not fun. That's why no one is playing PvP: because PvP is only fun when the teams are balanced and that pretty much never happens.

From what I've seen, nine times out of ten, PvP domination just means standing by a campfire/spawn point for 15 minutes and participating in a dance party while maybe one or two people duke it out over and over again in front of you. Because there is no fairness and balance introduced by a bracketing system, the PvP game is completely broken. I gave up on PvP months ago for this reason. I'd run my dailies ever day for the AD and glory because I had my heart set on that Profound set, and after doing it multiple hundreds of times, I think I had less than 10 matches that were somewhat reasonably balanced. I ultimately decided that, even with Lord Protectors Daily, it just wasn't worth the insanely not-fun experience to get the AD. And I would have to farm glory in that no-fun zone for months upon months before I'd be able to get the cool-looking armor set. I'd rather set leadership tasks for a few days than bother with that bologna. Too bad I can't find similar cool looking armor anywhere else to transmute, but whatever. As it is right now, avoiding PvP in Neverwinter is its own reward.

If you don't improve the PvP experience in a way that brings in more new people to increase the PvP playerbase, then this low population issue, which is the real problem with PvP and the root cause of most other problems with PvP mind you, will never be fixed. Most definitely, the biggest improvement to the system that would bring in more new PvPers is a system that makes the PvP game fun for everyone: brackets. Will queue times be longer? Absolutely. But the experience of those matches will be much better as a result. Quality should trump quantity. And once more people realize that PvP can actually be fun, more people will start to queue again.

vinceent1 · February 2015

i am really wondering who are that dedicated players for whom cryptic dont want to increase queue times? leaderboard exploiters? elites bored of roflstomping everyone? come on cryptic, make yourself a time and start fixing pvp.

sad thing is even in score balanced match is more battle of rogues, nothing more. every team has 2 rogues, they battling at 1 and 3, the stronger bring his team a win almost no matter what others do at mid ....

fantasycharacter · February 2015

kangkeok wrote: »

I m a PVE player from the start. Then i heard about how small the pvp community is and how broken pvp is after mod 5 that alot is avoiding doing it. I dun belief its that bad as other project it and so i gave it a try. I started doing domination and Gaunt 90% of my login time. It was fun and it isnt that bad as other people were saying and yea i expected to die alot coz i m a **** that just started to learn pvp. The player is cool and we makes play alot by helping each other out. As my GS went up from 11k to 16k, the comunity started to change. I find more toxic player in higher bracket of GS that cry at teammate, trash talk among team, the blammer, the hater and they tend to get mad alot calling everyone noobs. The game is no longer casual and its more like matter of life and death. I mean i kill a HR with my dps DC and he start trash talking and mad as if i just kill his mother. THIS, this is what turn me off from pvp. Its not once i seen this type of behavior in my recent match up..its been happening almost like 3 out of 5 match since i got my GS to 16k. I just feel the community above 16k isnt healthy and very toxic. PVP just isnt fun anymore with everyone took it so seriously and got mad so easily. So i went back PVE.

There is an easy fix to the toxicity. Just shut off your chat box for match the duration.

I have done that and put most of the more "out there" people on ignore (over time), and my chat box is pleasant for the most part. I still get the odd "out there" person but not very often. It is much easier for me to play with these people when they are quiet

tbhdk2 · February 2015

grumblesmorf wrote: »

The lack of brackets is really the biggest problem. People say they don't work because it increases wait times? Well, the wait times are so high because there aren't any brackets. What do I mean? You see, most people don't want to queue for PvP when it's just a 50/50 chance of either getting roflstomped or being on the team that's doing the roflstomping. That's not fun. That's why no one is playing PvP: because PvP is only fun when the teams are balanced and that pretty much never happens.

That is my point exactly.

It could be an asset - this game has a good combat system. And even matches are fun and thrilling. I tried losing a match with 1 point in difference. That was the funniest loss I ever tried.

zeusom · February 2015

Many games with pvp have two separate rataings/leaderboards for a players pvp performance:

Solo ranking
Party ranking

This makes a lot of sense but is missing in this game.

svekolj · February 2015

overdriver13 wrote: »

This game is really odd because most of the players act like they are playing a single player game and are forced into these occasional awkward group situations where they finish the group-content as quickly as possible and get their little daily ad and then run away back to the predictable, friendly, scripted, and utterly one-dimensional land of npcs with as little socialization as possible.

to be fair that lich in neverdeath has more character than most pvp "we own you guys" I've encountered

overdriver13 wrote: »

Maybe it has something to do with it being a fantasy game and pvp simply breaks the fantasy of the player-character as some invincible hero. Instead of Bildo the friendly munchkin king saying how great you are and how his kingdom of munchkins just couldn't wait for you, the mighty hero, to arrive and save them all (despite how many times you utterly failed), you get "Yermumblowz", a twisted naked halfling wearing a jack-0-lantern head with 3x your gs and insane skills telling you how much a knub you are, that you blew it for your team, and that you need to learn to play before quing pvp".

So ya, pvp more than any other area of the game, involves this dangerous notion of the expectations and standards of others(oh what toxic things!), more often than not rammed down your throat with a string of expletives.

or you know, a halfling named drow dressed in a pumpkin generally breaks the immersion of fantasy world(man I'd introduce fashion penalty somehow)

overdriver13 wrote: »

So I can see why people hate pvp and find "those people" weird and scery. They are real people, all the good and bad, with real standards and expectations and anyone who hides under the dress of his wizard character in a fantasy mmo to escape the painful (and ultimately rewarding) social reality of everyday life is in for a huge shock the second they enter the domination arena.

implying people on the internet have much in-linking with real social interactions, and pvp elitism isn't even a worse sort of compensation.

overdriver13 wrote: »

PvP is a lot more like hitting the basketball court in a crappy neighborhood after work for a "pickup game" of hoops, than it is a high medieval fantasy wish-fulfillment mmorpg. Suddenly the IT guys are getting batted all over the place and their balls busted (as people will bust balls as a part of sport) and wonder how the heck they got there.

no because if somebody on the street acted like the pvp harassers(or generally people on the internet) he would likely get his own teeth force fed to him

Suggestions for a better pvp experience

Comments