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Suggestion: how about adding a prone to the shield?
mirrorballs
Member Posts: 877 Bounty Hunter
...not to the base effect, but to the [TAB] shield, manual activation 'burst'...?
Frankly, I don't see what CWs are complaining about when they have shield on tab. They speak as if they're being deprived of a "4th encounter"... but, er.. no.. it's there. There's a need to increase survivabilty, so it's a choice being made. Doesn't make sense to complain about it.
However, the passive nature of the power is admittedly not too much fun. Besides, nobody really uses the manual activated burst anyway, because in terms of actual PvP, it seems useless. No amount of gain from manually exploding the shield that compares to the merit of maintaining it.
...
So, if that be the case, can't we just increase the AoE radius and make it strong prone attack?
For example, as the tab-shield is attacked and its effects are diminished, it's damage and radius will increase... and bam! at the right timing, a big, 30' radius AoE explosion with moderate~heavy damage (not like 15~20k or something like that... but maybe around 8~9k on crit?) that hits with piercing damage.
The reasoning behind this is:
(a) CWs are sorely in need of a quick-activating control/interrupt sort of power that can gain them the initiative if things go bad
(b) CWs need a few more non-target powers to use, especially a quick-activating one
(c) CWs need a quick activating prone to control TRs when they get the chance. Currently, every CC the CW uses can be countered by ITC, which recharges fast enough to be available basically whenever the TR is out of stealth
(d) it's a risky move for the CW as well. So even if it deals a moderate~heavy piercing damage, its impossible to spam it in any way. It's basically a one-off attack that requires a long recharge. It's also removing one's own protection in view of an attack opportunity - a gamble, a risky move that might do some real good if it pays off -- but would lead to instant death if fails -- So if this much risk is involved, then I don't think the tab-shield bombing is going to be any kind of OP at all.
So, to sum it up:
(a) bigger, piercing damage to the tab-shield manual burst
(b) bigger radius to the tab-shield manual burst
(c) a feat in one of the build paths that cuts down on the recharge time, and the 'casting' time for activation
(d) a prone effect to the burst
It's not just giving CWs an "I WIN" button or anything. It's giving them more choices, options according to situation where they could take the risks, and if succeeds, be returned with as much meaningful results... instead of dealing a meaningless 'push' effect... zero rewards for the risk you take in bursting up your tab-shield, the main survival component.
I think it could be a fun change.
I would even go so far as to the "burst" also giving the CW some buffs... like conceptually, "burst forth with your shield, giving up all protection but increasing your power by channel magic into offense"... so for 6? 8? seconds after bursting your tab-shield, the CW gains... um... more control? Maybe like how the scoundrel TRs can deal concussive strikes, the 'tab-shield burst' will grant a special buff for 6 seconds, so when an encounter is landed, the guy being hit is dazed for 4 seconds, with each attack after that increasing the duration by 0.5 seconds x4 ?
Frankly, I don't see what CWs are complaining about when they have shield on tab. They speak as if they're being deprived of a "4th encounter"... but, er.. no.. it's there. There's a need to increase survivabilty, so it's a choice being made. Doesn't make sense to complain about it.
However, the passive nature of the power is admittedly not too much fun. Besides, nobody really uses the manual activated burst anyway, because in terms of actual PvP, it seems useless. No amount of gain from manually exploding the shield that compares to the merit of maintaining it.
...
So, if that be the case, can't we just increase the AoE radius and make it strong prone attack?
For example, as the tab-shield is attacked and its effects are diminished, it's damage and radius will increase... and bam! at the right timing, a big, 30' radius AoE explosion with moderate~heavy damage (not like 15~20k or something like that... but maybe around 8~9k on crit?) that hits with piercing damage.
The reasoning behind this is:
(a) CWs are sorely in need of a quick-activating control/interrupt sort of power that can gain them the initiative if things go bad
(b) CWs need a few more non-target powers to use, especially a quick-activating one
(c) CWs need a quick activating prone to control TRs when they get the chance. Currently, every CC the CW uses can be countered by ITC, which recharges fast enough to be available basically whenever the TR is out of stealth
(d) it's a risky move for the CW as well. So even if it deals a moderate~heavy piercing damage, its impossible to spam it in any way. It's basically a one-off attack that requires a long recharge. It's also removing one's own protection in view of an attack opportunity - a gamble, a risky move that might do some real good if it pays off -- but would lead to instant death if fails -- So if this much risk is involved, then I don't think the tab-shield bombing is going to be any kind of OP at all.
So, to sum it up:
(a) bigger, piercing damage to the tab-shield manual burst
(b) bigger radius to the tab-shield manual burst
(c) a feat in one of the build paths that cuts down on the recharge time, and the 'casting' time for activation
(d) a prone effect to the burst
It's not just giving CWs an "I WIN" button or anything. It's giving them more choices, options according to situation where they could take the risks, and if succeeds, be returned with as much meaningful results... instead of dealing a meaningless 'push' effect... zero rewards for the risk you take in bursting up your tab-shield, the main survival component.
I think it could be a fun change.
I would even go so far as to the "burst" also giving the CW some buffs... like conceptually, "burst forth with your shield, giving up all protection but increasing your power by channel magic into offense"... so for 6? 8? seconds after bursting your tab-shield, the CW gains... um... more control? Maybe like how the scoundrel TRs can deal concussive strikes, the 'tab-shield burst' will grant a special buff for 6 seconds, so when an encounter is landed, the guy being hit is dazed for 4 seconds, with each attack after that increasing the duration by 0.5 seconds x4 ?
Post edited by mirrorballs on
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Oh, come on! You know it will be fun
when something is "must to slot" usually get nerfed for a good reason.
aspect of the lone wolf? split shot? Impossible to catch? those are two example i can come up with in 2 seconds.
shield gives 50% bonus not mitigable DR making CW tankier than gwf while allowing them to reach 50-55k HP mod 5.
i m not saying nerf nerf nerf but we can sure say it s enough for an encounter.
it's like asking for shadow strike to hit for 12k or impossible to catch to do AoE piercing damage at the end of the effect...it s just wrong. You sacrifice stuffs to obtain stuffs.
it's super annoying, the only class my gwf actually outtanks is the ranger, and cw has plenty of control already adding prone to it would just be brutal
Don't you actually think the way it's changed, they'll be taking their clothes off rather more often?
Don't forget to officially change the name to Control Wizards Online!
Oh and give them Power Word: Kill, as well, make it also un-dodgeable.
No, wail of the banshee, aoe instant kill.
Some simple facts
fact 1:It is the class with the most players played since mod1.Also cw is the class with the most population in the forums.
fact2:Cw population makes a lot of alts .You never know what they will play next.They hide themselves pretty well.
fact3:CW population controls and manipulates the forums.
fact4:CWs have a crying mentality.No matter what the devs will give to them ,CWs always ask for more.
fact5:CWs are shameless.They have no problem crying in a pityfull way ,and ridicouling themselves, in order to get their get their buffs.
fact6:Most of CWs players are accustomed to easy mode pve and try the same encounters in pvp.
fact7:CWs got and still have a secret bonus in pvp.I read it somewhere and i confirmed it my self that:Since tenacity introduction CWs OFFICIALLY IGNORE 66% of TENACITY for CC purposes.
fact8:CW class never had any serious nerf.
fact9:CWs never reported their bugged RoI and other encounters pro mod4.
fact10:Storm Spell is bugged since ages.
fact11:Shield on TAb is op and needs to go COMPLETELY.
It is plain ridicoulous the class with the most dps and control ,also to have a mechanism-plus the 3 long dodges that provode immunity frame-that makes it the tankiest class in pvp.
fact12:The FoTM population in the forums is comprised by people that have multiple classes,The 90% of them have CW,HR in that order.That's why complaints against HRs by CWs are rare.Compare these to the complaints against Trs.
fact13:Out of nowhere CWs got buffed during mod5.A lot of encounters got -20/30% activation time.Make a compare to the eternal animations of other classes.
fact14:The average Cw player population is more cunning that the rest forum population.That is how CWs manipulate the others.The mantras and the clises like "Cw is weak against GWF/GF" ,"CW is squishy in pvp" etc go on for ages and represent a pre mod3 reality.Since mod3 the cw class by new items and gear demolished the defence/hp advantage of tanky classes while maintained and increased their DPS and control.
fact15:CW class is the class that booted the most players through kick in pve.
fact16:CWs are evil.
fact 17:They get enormous buffs in mod6.
fact18:If TR/GF/GWFs do not unite to fight CWs in pvp and in forums ,CWs will dominate.
fact19:Here in NW we are living first hand the Dragon age Iquisition theme,the battle of the valiant and noble Fighters against the evil Wizard Horde
Conclusion:No buff for CW ,shield needs a nerf,eh sorry ,an "adjustment"
I'm a TR, no doubt about it, but its not like I don't have any other classes in my roster, and in certain moments I do understand their general frustrations.
To fellow TRs, remember before mod5, when we used to discuss the need to enhance certain aspects of the TR? There were other players joining in on the discussion, mentioning that the TR was already unkillable and plenty powerful enough.
Remember what we used to argue back then? We said that the whole perma-stealth mechanic was wrong, and its basically that the TRs were so unsatisfactory in terms of all performance issues, that we had no choice but to simply take on the single path that allows us any kind of competition -- which just happened to be the strongest and most powerful one up to date.
I think its a lot like that for the CWs now. IMO the class itself feels very "old", with minor design changes and class 'quirks' which may have been suitable a when the game launched, but nowadays feels out of date.
Perhaps time to update the class to more 'modern' design approaches like the TRs and DCs received, methinks.
There's a reason why people are against this idea and comparing it to PW Kill and Wail of the Banshee. You're talking about making a god mode node clearer. Balance could not be farther from the idea presented in the OP.
How fast does a CW go down without shield? I think probably around 5 secs.
The recharge required to recast shield is around 10s with very high recharge, as well as the casting time renders the cw vulnerable for a little less than 2s. The radius might be too large, in which case it is a matter of simply tweaking it down to maybe 20' -- which is the same distance a WK TR needs to be in when he's using Dagger Threat, which is like.. closer than it sounds.
To deal maximum effect the CW needs to actively throw himself in the middle of enemies, as well as risk 10 seconds with just his default defense rating. If he catches all enemies + their TRs within the radius, then yes, an AoE prone is just gonna be superbly powerful.
...but what if he misses? What if the targets dodge the attack? Move out of the distance? The opposing side ain't exactly training dummies, sir. I'm pretty certain people can react properly to a tactic so transparent as a CW just walking towards you and trying to wade into enemies.
I'm done arguing it. You have no understanding of how to balance classes and seek to one up the dev's in terms of bad ideas. Have a good night.
It reduce the amount of damage taken, and more on tabbed.
When you build up arcane stack it increase the power of the push ability when you expel the shield.
What it cant do, "prevent cc", doesn't provide any increase in any stats of any kind.
People do not remember where in Mod3 CW are just back support, when any enemy come near, CW will be running for backup.
Or maybe you lack vision.