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Mod 6: Fighter Conjecture
zvieris
Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
That's right folks. GF was the main tank and sentinel was the secondary tank that took care of adds so they stayed off the tank (thus the name "off-tank"). However, with the changes to LS/Regen and upcoming Paladin class all will change. It seems the later will be able to play both roles of tank and off-tank effectively.
Namely due to these changes:
"Oathbound – Protection: Your Damage Resistance is increased by 10%, you generate 500% more threat. When you take damage you gain power proportional to the amount of damage you took. This bonus caps at 10% of your Max HP in power."
Now take this 500% threat generation and compare with Sentinel's +50% threat generation from intimidation buff and +50% from weapon master feat, 100% more from mark. 500% vs 200%? Awesome.
And 10% hp in power? That's sick. If Paladin can reach anything close to GFs max HP then he'll be getting +7k power just from that.
"Binding Oath: All targets near the Paladin are forced to attack him for 2 seconds. During this time he absorbs all damage against him. When this effect expires he takes 50% of that damage and deals 50% of it to all foes in an AoE. Players affected by this power deal 75% less damage to targets who are not the Paladin."
It often takes a great deal of time to win the hate contest from the dps classes for GWFs and GFs and look at this. Paladin pushes a button and takes aggro instantly and stuff? Whoa.
Just 2 powers and they already make Paladin the better tank and offtank than the both fighters combined. But hey, that's just scratching the surface. Paladin has a lot of useful party+self buffs and heals too. And that's where the fun begins.
Heals. GF has crushing surge for healing and some daily that I've never seen anyone use, GWF has restoring strike. All these powers are tighly knit to the damage they deal. No damage = no heal. Paladin on the other hand has heals. Might be lower heals on the tank path but he will still have heals. And heals benefit from incoming healing bonus that regeneration has now become.
But the worst are the changes to LS/Regeneration. No more will my GWF be able to survive 2nd or 3rd hit from eSoT boss. Because I will not have enough hp recovered to tank that 90% hp blast. Sprint is unreliable, potions don't heal enough, unstoppable is useless and LS/Regeneration will be no more for all I care. The only way to prevent that is to always have a healer in a pocket.
But then again, why would anyone choose to get a sentinel GWF/GF in their group over Paladin? Paladin can main tank, off-tank and support with buffs and heals.
Namely due to these changes:
"Oathbound – Protection: Your Damage Resistance is increased by 10%, you generate 500% more threat. When you take damage you gain power proportional to the amount of damage you took. This bonus caps at 10% of your Max HP in power."
Now take this 500% threat generation and compare with Sentinel's +50% threat generation from intimidation buff and +50% from weapon master feat, 100% more from mark. 500% vs 200%? Awesome.
And 10% hp in power? That's sick. If Paladin can reach anything close to GFs max HP then he'll be getting +7k power just from that.
"Binding Oath: All targets near the Paladin are forced to attack him for 2 seconds. During this time he absorbs all damage against him. When this effect expires he takes 50% of that damage and deals 50% of it to all foes in an AoE. Players affected by this power deal 75% less damage to targets who are not the Paladin."
It often takes a great deal of time to win the hate contest from the dps classes for GWFs and GFs and look at this. Paladin pushes a button and takes aggro instantly and stuff? Whoa.
Just 2 powers and they already make Paladin the better tank and offtank than the both fighters combined. But hey, that's just scratching the surface. Paladin has a lot of useful party+self buffs and heals too. And that's where the fun begins.
Heals. GF has crushing surge for healing and some daily that I've never seen anyone use, GWF has restoring strike. All these powers are tighly knit to the damage they deal. No damage = no heal. Paladin on the other hand has heals. Might be lower heals on the tank path but he will still have heals. And heals benefit from incoming healing bonus that regeneration has now become.
But the worst are the changes to LS/Regeneration. No more will my GWF be able to survive 2nd or 3rd hit from eSoT boss. Because I will not have enough hp recovered to tank that 90% hp blast. Sprint is unreliable, potions don't heal enough, unstoppable is useless and LS/Regeneration will be no more for all I care. The only way to prevent that is to always have a healer in a pocket.
But then again, why would anyone choose to get a sentinel GWF/GF in their group over Paladin? Paladin can main tank, off-tank and support with buffs and heals.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
It's no surprise the Paladin has the best package to fit the new system because they already stated that one factor in redesigning was the introduction of the class. I would certainly hope though that a healing Pala won't have enough tools to effectively tank and vice versa, at least that was what they said during the livestream. And I would most certainly hope the Paladin won't feature major group buffs.
It really will come down to the new content we get. I would assume DCs and GFs will still remain the super-buffers, so whenever you are able to trade some survivability for DPS, that would be your choice.
GWFs are in a strange place though. I play mine as pure DPS since ever so technically nothing changes for me I guess. Outside PVP the Sentinel never looked promising.
^^^^^
+1.Completely agree.
Devs brought back old Stalwart Bulkwark set power,disguised in a Paladin mechanic-encounter and gave it to the new Paladins.
Game over for GFs and GWfs just for that.A Paladin can go fully defensive ,100% and still do tremendous damage cause of that encounter.
Tank Paladin> GF+Sent together.
Please note that @lv65 we will unlock Rank IV skills and the devs said that for some classes, it will add new effects to existing skills .. and we don't know anything about it yet, it could change everything or could change nothing.
Also Binding Oath last 6s at Rank III, heh.
I still agree that the OP, like they showed it on the stream, detroys GF in term of tanking, plus it can still heal a bit (or a LOT with dailies) and still buff/debuff with aura. So yeah.
In term of offensive stats, the Power PASSIVE buff coming from MAX HP is ridiculous, better than the whole Conq tree, on a tank spec, it doesn't make sense at all. Please note that they can add 3% of their max HP as radiant dmg to each hit for the party.
About the tooltip, in the stream the character had lv 1 gear so the at wills were about 70dmg, encounter 140-150 if I remember right ... and a DMG Daily had 3800 ...
So I wanted to wheck my GF tootips with level 1 weapon but the feats and stuff gives me offensive stats .. I guess we have to wait for the Preview server to be UP again.
Now I didn't see ANY gap closer, any "push"/KB/KD skill or any movement skills (well, except for the +20% speed aura), I guss they won't be able to keep a node solo for a long time in PvP.
But for PvE, AT THE MOMENT, and without taking RANK IV skills in the equation, the tank OP seems better than the GF in term of threat generation, defensive support, heals (duh) but not in term of offensive support. KV + ItF still king here .. and when you think about it, do we need more defensive support? No. May change in MOD6 dungeons due to the lack of leech and regen.
Also of you use the ingame match making, you CAN'T have a tank OP + a GF in the same party, as you can't have a heal OP + a DC, but you can have a tank OP + DC, GF + heal OP or even tank OP + heal OP.
Sentinel GWF was always underpowered as tank due to poor mitigation or poor aggro generation with good mitigation.
And if you had paid any attention to twitch stream you'd knew that prot pala can NOT heal, so no self healing for him.
Prot pala also doesn't mitigate as well as GWF(60% vs 80% block), doesn't have sweet mark buff, no knights valor.
Both will have their niche, both will be useful and LS/regen changes only mean that you'll need a healer (dc/temp lock/healy pala) which is not bad at all. Show me single other game where tank can tank and effectively heal himself-only here we had this kind of bs.
And STOP saying what paladin can when you have no slightest clue on that yet as you haven't seen his feats, abilities and powers.
a possibility that in the past would make me anxious sounds today as the final nail in the coffin ( new feets and last reworks reference). lets hop, in the case of gwf, free marks and 2x more damage.
I suspect all these awesome things look stunning on paper, but wet noodle status in practice. I don't know. But neither does anyone else.
One thing I'm pretty sure of is this: Paladin will play and feel a LOT differently than GF. Which is why I'll keep both in my list of toons.
Two seconds hard taunt AND 500% threat generation. Whereas GF can get maybe 100% threat from mark, 225% from enhanced mark feature, 15% from potent challenge heroic feat, some more from KV. But all these require slotting and ranking. Whereas paladin get his 500% threat generation simply from choosing a paragon path. How is that fair?
And let's not forget Paladin's Tab ability:
"Divine Call: Consume a charge of Divine Call and taunt all foes within a 30' area. Allies within 30' will be healed slightly."
He can keep 3 charges at a time. And I'm not sure if it's a hard taunt or not, but if it is then we're doomed.
As for GWF, now with a tank paladin in party a gwf will not be able to realize his full potential. GWF needs to take hits to gain determination and build up stacks of Countless Scars or Instigator's Vengeance. You can't do that when there's a class in team that takes both roles of tank and off-tank and does both of them easier than fighters.
Tbh, I feel cheated. All the features that GF and GWF players have asked for were given to Paladin. For example, Intimidation should have been the hard tount, not a power from a divine class...
And to end with, whoever say that tank Paladin won't be able to heal are clueless. That's like saying that dps Cleric can't heal. They will be able to heal, definitely not to the extent of a healer path but still.
Please let's not talk about the GWF, it was my main, with legend artefact weapon and stuff ... I can't believe a class with that much power, crit and weapons over 1000 atk can deal so few damage and generate so little aggro .. huu please again, let's not talk about the GWF, on the preview it was still terrible at tanking and damage dealing.
What are you blabbering?
Did you ever play or see someone playing a DPS DC? If yes, you know there are encounters like Bastion of Health or Divine Glow. A fully empowered Bastion does heal a low health 50k max HP player to full!
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Retired since 02/15
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3s hard taunt at-will... R.I.P. Fighters
+1 for change grand fissure to reaping strike to have a range burst and control atwill?