Suggestions for GF Rework

Comments

• charononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I agree with a lot of what you say, not all, but most. However when they did the rework of GF's in mod 4, they said they weren't going to give it more dps because it shouldn't be a dps class. Granted it is the only class they're trying to pound into a trinity role in a non-trinity game, but there it is. I have zero hope that any of this will be done.

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• cxyen Member Posts: 87 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  charononus wrote: »

  I agree with a lot of what you say, not all, but most. However when they did the rework of GF's in mod 4, they said they weren't going to give it more dps because it shouldn't be a dps class. Granted it is the only class they're trying to pound into a trinity role in a non-trinity game, but there it is. I have zero hope that any of this will be done.

  
  I might hv missed the part where/when they said it. thanks for the heads up though.

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• ryoshinette Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 488 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Dead class in dead game.
  No chance for any good change.

  Ryoshin GF (4.2k)
  .Suicide Squad.
  
  
  
  
  

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• yuccapalm Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 195 Bounty Hunter

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  GWF needs a rework not GF. As GF you just perma block and 1 rota ppl.

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• ebonyshadow Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  A tank is traditionally slow when soloing, it is a trade off for the mitigation and threat that it needs to do its job. It 'nearly has enough mitigation but needs a boost to threat gen, especially area effect threat to hold groups. When solo it's got the mitigation to slowly whittle the opponents down for the most part but you need to get the DPS from gearing choices if you want to be any faster at killing. A tank should not be able to 'burn things down fast' unless it is badly over-leveling its target/s.
  
  Unfortunately, with the PvP crowd whining about PvP 'balance' the tools that enable it to do its PvE job get passed by in order to pander to them.
  
  @ryo : If it is a dead game WTF are you still doing here? Go find something you enjoy and leave it to those of us who are still enjoying it!

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• checkmatein3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 525 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  The call for GF rework once again goes out, but the same call has been happening since beta. Cryptic has consistently shown that the GF will not become more dps-empowered because the supposively tankiness of the GF will make it too op. To prove my point, one only needs to highlight the nerf that the GF received about a week after the mod 4 release. With the new KV format and ITF, a GF could enter PvP with Enforced Threat, ITF, and KV slotted in the encounters, put in SoS for the daily and guarded assault for the class ability and watch the opposing 5 players melt as the GF constantly had SoS procced and reflecting huge amounts of damage. The AP gain constantly refilled SoS so that attacking a GF meant self-inflicted death. The GF could just stand there, mark and reflect, take a DC heal, and laugh. The devs decided this was too op and instantly nerfed the GF so that SoS no longer gains AP while it is procced, and reflect damage does not add to AP gain either. The GF enjoyed about 1-2 weeks of true op-ness and nerf.
  
  However, by comparison, other classes go months in select configurations that are op. Dare I mention the original GWF sent (mod 1-2), the GWF roar destroyer (mod 3), the current TR smoke-daze/stun and run tag teams, the HR regen monster?
  
  The GF is trying to be molded into a roll as one leg of the MMO trinity (dps, healer, tank) in a game that still heavily favors dps parties above all. Mod 6 is supposed to again favor healers and tanks, but the suggested changes do not appear to weaken dpsers much (if they rebuild differently), but the GF currently has little maneuverability away from the proposed changes in regeneration and life steal, defensively speaking.
  
  Currently, players have preferred GFs in a party when that GF can buff the team with ITF and KV and debuff the enemies with armor sets and artifacts, marks, so that their own dps-focused toons can melt mobs and bosses. Aggroing is a secondary roll. Classic tanking and kiting also is not really necessary at present. By the time a GF can gather a mob, the dpsers could have burned the mob. If you want proof, ask yourself this. How many dpsers who are buffed by a GF wait for the GF to tank or kite a mob before they attack, knowing that if they attack first, they aggro the mob? Answer: none.
  
  As a long time GF player, I have adapted my build and play style to fit the expectations of the Neverwinter community. I consistently get asked to join dungeons when dpsers fail on some of the more tricky bosses (CN, VT, epic Tuern and eLoL) and the team wants the buffs/debuffs my GF build provides. I highly doubt Cryptic will provide the GF a larger roll in dps generation (apples to apples comparison), and the new GF class features in mod 6 tends to show this.
  
  As long as the GF is not squeezed out of every roll in a party, I will merely adapt to what I can do. There was a time when the GF had no value to a party at all and hindered dungeon completion (dark days). Now, we GFers have at least some way to help. The GF is like the family pet begging at the table for scraps.

  LEVIATHAN--19.3k Metallic Dragonborn Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Loadouts
  
  Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
  
  
  
  
  

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• cxyen Member Posts: 87 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I started playing GF since mod 3, I think it was after the dark days as you put it. and I notice that as well (the part where gf doesnt really need to get aggro since stacking cws just burned everything down). I was hoping for other way to play a class in a dps-centric game. I pugged runs alot, and because of that I also saved a lot of runs. even the 19k sometimes messed up in epic Lostmauth.
  
  yeah, I kinda doubt any changes being made to GF at this point.

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• urterror Member Posts: 77 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  cxyen wrote: »

  I think its high time that GF gets a rework. So, this is my suggestions on it:
  
  cut! :P

  
  - a 0.5% crit for each point of STR would be interesting (Off GFs);
  - yea, 6k Def is so useless a Gwf feat could helps (or lesser defense in the armos / or more DR for a 6k Def);
  - you aren't in wrong, old armors have 0 arm pen;
  - imo, there are no problems with FS;
  - as an "aggro skill" ET doesn't need a high damage, always imo;
  - Grit feat rework would be interesting;
  - Anvil: idk, i don't think we need a small aoe but is just my opinion;
  - Response time shield: I think it's "ok" but there are a lot of bugs related to this (after a CC no block / consume of stamina without block of others CC and damages).. we need a lot of fixes ;
  - Trample the Fallen: this is interesting, personally i don't use it often because artifact weapon feat is a bonus of 3% damage only.. so i don't know;
  - Pin Down: ... Yes please! lol;
  - Martial Mastery: good question! -- Iron Guard: I never understood this thing.. bha -- Reckless attacker: same here, perhaps to remind us that we were born as a "tank".. lol
  
  but yea, born as a no-popular class and it will remain so :L
  btw, old elite GFs will know how to move forward (hope!)

  
  
  | Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
  < Guild: Pugno Fiammante >

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• mrvincent1959 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  ebonyshadow wrote: »

  Unfortunately, with the PvP crowd whining about PvP 'balance' the tools that enable it to do its PvE job get passed by in order to pander to them.

  
  Bingo!!!! The need to balance pvp has been the raspberry seed in the wisdom tooth of all us pve players.

  twitch.tv/kaligold

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• checkmatein3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 525 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I cannot speak for all builds of GFs, nor do I consider myself elite, since I do not actively pursue PvP.
  
  However, with the current mod 6 trends and rework of regen and lifesteal, I am planning the following for my PvE-focused GF:
  
  1) Stay with Sword Master over Iron Vanguard. The new skills do not provide significant dps to abandon the Swordmaster line.
  
  2) Shield Defense from SM paragon is still the most important defensive ability that a GF has. 5 seconds of immunity to all damage of every type when a Daily Power is activated. So, in combination with Villain's Menace and with the Offhand artifact class feature boost, the GF will have 100% immunity to all CC effects (does not include knockback) and all damage for 5 seconds, have an additional (not multiplicative) 10% DR for 5 seconds. During immunity you can be out of guard if you so choose, moving freely, marking mobs, pulling them in, positioning, resurrecting fallen comrades (shout out to Tiamat) and most importantly, gaining more AP (VM as a daily power does not prohibit AP gain). So, when immunity and extra defense wears off, you can go back into guard if needed, since stamina has had 5 seconds to regenerate, and build AP. With full AP, pop VM again. Presto...immunity again. On average, if the GF has the correct build, the GF will be immune to all CC and all damage about 50% of the time, and highly resistant to damage the other 50%.
  
  3) The above AP gain build does not require lots of regen to survive nor lots of life steal. A healer can time heals during the 5 seconds of immunity to heal or the GF can maneuver to decrease the onslaught that will come when immunity ceases. Moreover, with VM, the proccing of the % life steal (when maxed in mod 6 at level 70) will (hopefully) provide the means of self-healing. Moreover, it keeps your options open on Encounters and 1 class feature and the second daily, to buff party or debuff.
  
  4) The above build favors hit points to soak up damage and frees up coveted active companion slots to provide for some very interesting combinations. For example, in mod 6 I plan on using a legendary Pig (% max hit point healing for every second controlled) and legendary Astral Deva (10% chance to heal % of max hit points on doing damage...better than life steal) if running in dungeons with party, and the classic Legendary Phase Spider, Leprechaun, etc. Moreover, I might even experiment with a Legendary Sprite crew of companions (Sprite, Flame Sprite, Ice Sprite), if the % AP gain is 3% or more each (since % AP gain = immunity).

  LEVIATHAN--19.3k Metallic Dragonborn Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Loadouts
  
  Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
  
  
  
  
  

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• setimoselo Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 109 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  If they are going to stack Defense they need to rework Guardian Fighters defensive "hard-cap".

  

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• cxyen Member Posts: 87 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  ah, I'm Iron Vanguard. though planning to switch to Swordmaster soon. I usually use Guarded Assault with Shield Talent in the Tactician tree. I heard the tact's Martial Mastery does minimal increase in AP gain. So far I kinda see the difference in the AP gain even without running ITF+KV. and the spamming Fighters Recovery is my preference since the cast time is so quick and i can shield the moment I used it.
  
  Is Martial Mastery really doesnt do much?
  
  I pretty much never pvp aside from dailies and stuff.
  I just had a gg pvp earlier with 16 total trs in my instance.

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• cxyen Member Posts: 87 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  urterror wrote: »

  - a 0.5% crit for each point of STR would be interesting (Off GFs);
  - yea, 6k Def is so useless a Gwf feat could helps (or lesser defense in the armos / or more DR for a 6k Def);
  - you aren't in wrong, old armors have 0 arm pen;
  - imo, there are no problems with FS;
  - as an "aggro skill" ET doesn't need a high damage, always imo;
  - Grit feat rework would be interesting;
  - Anvil: idk, i don't think we need a small aoe but is just my opinion;
  - Response time shield: I think it's "ok" but there are a lot of bugs related to this (after a CC no block / consume of stamina without block of others CC and damages).. we need a lot of fixes ;
  - Trample the Fallen: this is interesting, personally i don't use it often because artifact weapon feat is a bonus of 3% damage only.. so i don't know;
  - Pin Down: ... Yes please! lol;
  - Martial Mastery: good question! -- Iron Guard: I never understood this thing.. bha -- Reckless attacker: same here, perhaps to remind us that we were born as a "tank".. lol
  
  but yea, born as a no-popular class and it will remain so :L
  btw, old elite GFs will know how to move forward (hope!)

  
  thanks for the comment. ^_^
  now that I think abt it, asking for AoD as small aoe might be a bit too much lol.

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