How to fight trickster rogues in pvp?

Comments

• piejal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  My suggestion to clear a TR replace hindering shot with ambush on 1 on 1 fight since hard to land melee attack
  Use constric binding ambush
  if you feel that there TR near use ambush to stall their stealth if they come out root them if they still not come out move straight and place trap in your running path
  with 2x trap oak akin and melee contric + good recovery ambush will already available if not dash until ambush available then repeat ambush and if you have a good recovery and legend black ice or imperial cloak
  mostly forest ghost already available as option
  if they use itc run for a moment is the best choice lol

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• ralexinor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  TRs destroy every class atm 1v1. There's nothing you can do short of immensely outplaying them, and even then they can still win with dailies.
  

  piejal wrote: »

  My suggestion to clear a TR replace hindering shot with ambush on 1 on 1 fight since hard to land melee attack
  Use constric binding ambush
  if you feel that there TR near use ambush to stall their stealth if they come out root them if they still not come out move straight and place trap in your running path
  with 2x trap oak akin and melee contric + good recovery ambush will already available if not dash until ambush available then repeat ambush and if you have a good recovery and legend black ice or imperial cloak
  mostly forest ghost already available as option

  
  Ambush is terrible because you lose the much needed DPS to kill a TR. The only way you can kill a TR atm is to kill them fast before they get the chance to kill you.
  
  The rotation you're running atm is fine, but you need a lot more HP. Any class will kill you easily with that amount of HP. Ideally you should be sitting at 40k+ HP for a trapper. Tenacity and HP really helps against TRs.
  
  To beat a TR you pretty much have to play perfect, dodge all their CCs and big burst skills, and have split second reactions to take advantage of their mistakes and openings. And then when you do, they remember that they have Bloodbath and can just reset their CDs and troll in stealth for another 20 seconds until you're dead.
  
  My suggestion would be to learn how TR rotations work, and the times when they're most vulnerable. It's still extremely difficult and pretty much impossible against BiS geared TRs that know what they're doing, but you can get lucky enough to be able to get an opening once in a while so you can kill them.

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• piejal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I agree that TR is OP
  This was my rotate playstyle to hold TR in 1 on 1 fight on node
  at least we can play hide and seek stealth and not being throat split from behind
  fight fire with fire he7
  trapper damagenis came from root but hindering strike is melee attack againt TR is bad position
  but well every one have their playstyle

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• jonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  A newbie executioner TR will try to one shot you from stealth, I know because I play HR main and a TR 16k also. If you're on a node 1 vs 1, when they stealth, hit fox, the buff will protect you from the oneshot. You are a trapper mod5, no other choice in pvp. Root them with hindering and constrictive. Then hit them with whatever you have. Repeat till one of you dies.
  
  A TRs big hit encounters all have really short targetting circles and are difficult to land on a moving target, so move, shift, and do it randomly because the TR is trying to work out where you will be so he can hit you. Against a permadaze TR you are toast anyway, so just run away and fight someone else tbh, unless you are geared enough to suck it all up. ie. 20k plus with 40k plus HP. And lol, even then, he'll probably kill you with a daily.

  No idea what my toon is now.

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• nitron0va Member Posts: 18 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Alot of sound advice here, but I get a feeling that TRs are the FOTM right now. I've been playing domination and guantlygrm all day, been having some success here and there but alot more fails against TRs. When I see one, I just run the other way and try to pick my fights against those that I have a chance to beat. TRs are godlike, at least for someone like me.

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• rayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  The trick is being able to touch them twice with roots before you are dead.
  The first one will have no effect for itc then they are toasts.
  Its easy? No. Is possible? Yes especially waiting for them to hit you in melee and using melee hindering strike
  Using target lock for me is cheating but makes things 3 times easier.
  Without bloodbath they are no even a match for a trapper
  
  Forgot to say that you will never kill a scoundrel... in that case you can even stop trying

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• osterdrache Member Posts: 480 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Without bloodbath they are no even a match for a trapper

  
  What?
  I call BS. Its easier if they dont use BB, but they dont need it to kill you. Actually, BB is mostly used in 2vs1 situations in high end premades, because of broken <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> cd reduction and survival.
  In 1vs1 even a trapper will most likeley be shocked.

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• darkyhc Member Posts: 6

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  nitron0va wrote: »

  Alot of sound advice here, but I get a feeling that TRs are the FOTM right now. I've been playing domination and guantlygrm all day, been having some success here and there but alot more fails against TRs. When I see one, I just run the other way and try to pick my fights against those that I have a chance to beat. TRs are godlike, at least for someone like me.

  
  Im runing 12k gs HR pure archery build. This is my 1st char, but i do pvp mostly. In 1 vs 1 situations i always try use carefull attack on them (keep in mind this takes precious seconds). I found Carefull Attack + Plague fire + Fox shift + 2-3 Hunter teamworks shots for very strong combo and it melts TR with arround my GS or even ~2k higher. I also try to save my Lathern artifact (not sure about the name, the one that reveals invisible targets) for 1v1 fights. Try to be very mobile, confuse him with your moves, Marauder rush and Fox are MUST for Archer PVP. Also stack as much tenacity as u can, i noticed it helps a lot.
  
  The real pain are the perma daze one`s. As you said, pick your own fights. If you see he wipes you few times in 1vs1, then avoid him. When TR out gearscore me, i stick with my team, stay far behind them and whait for these nasty TR to shows up.
  
  Anyways, atm perma daze TR`s are stronger in 1vs1 situations and if he has equal gear and equal "player skill" he will kill you. To win you need to trick the trickster and for Archery HR PVP position is everything.
  
  These are my 2 cents, sry for bad english.

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• avengingangel93 Member Posts: 192 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Another tip I would put forward would be the continued usage of disrupting shot and forest ghost. With disruptive you can prevent them from stealthing, then if need be, you can use forest ghost to ambush them and catch them unawares, or if all else fails, use it to escape for a bit. Sounds common sense, but it's easy to forget about these skills in the heat of battle.

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• noetic2 Member Posts: 150 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I'm not great, but at 19 gs I'm in a heavier weight class than most. I believe that I could handle TRs if the playing field were level. Not fair that I get dazed for what like seems forever. And when I nail them with roots they run off like it's nothing. Feel like I should be rewarded for landing Constricting Arrow. Even the half life they promised me would be welcome. But most of the time TRs seem immune. Am I the ONLY Trapper with this complaint?

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• rayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  noetic2 wrote: »

  I'm not great, but at 19 gs I'm in a heavier weight class than most. I believe that I could handle TRs if the playing field were level. Not fair that I get dazed for what like seems forever. And when I nail them with roots they run off like its nothing. Feel like I should be rewarded for landing Constricting Arrow. Even the half life they promised me would be welcome. But most of the time TRs seem immune. Am I the ONLY Trapper with this complaint?

  
  Yes, rewarded for landing an undodgable ranged ability made me smile tho

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• noetic2 Member Posts: 150 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  rayrdan wrote: »

  Yes, rewarded for landing an undodgable ranged ability made me smile tho

  Glad to make you smile. So you recognize that roots don't work much if not most of the time? I've been reading this "undodgeable ranged ability" business, and I can't say that I get it. Guess that makes me either dense or unrealistic. But what is the point to having roots then? Doesn't make sense to give a class a power, and, because it would be overwhelming, dial it down to where it is useless under most circumstances. I say that when a TR comes out of hiding that in the brief period he's vulnerable that I should be able to nail him to the spot for a few seconds to where I can get on top of him. How is that any less fair than his ability to come out of hiding and one-shot me? And how is that any more overwhelming than Daze? Against other classes it might be a different matter. But CWs can still pound away when rooted. A trapper couldn't do significant range damage in those few seconds to a GWF or GW. And roots wouldn't affect anything in melee. So what's the problem?

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• rayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  You may have some gear problems, my roots can ticks even for 10k + each seconds for 7 seconds...by undodgable i mean that damage cannot be avoided most of the time so trapper are a bit overperforming what they really are atm.

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• noetic2 Member Posts: 150 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  rayrdan wrote: »

  You may have some gear problems, my roots can ticks even for 10k + each seconds for 7 seconds...by undodgable i mean that damage cannot be avoided most of the time so trapper are a bit overperforming what they really are atm.

  7 seconds in PvP?!! Nothing like my experience. Maybe you are a different guy. But I hear talk of nerfing Trappers to make roots less effective because it's overpowered. I just don't see it. I play much less PvP than I used to. (Most of the time I am able to secure my ADs in two trips.) I base my judgement largely on the fact that I've seldom been even slightly inconvenienced by other HRs' roots. (3 seconds tops, but maybe tenacity and wisdom affects that.) That has changed some in recent weeks. More Trappers, I guess. Still, I'll eat most other HRs alive. But perhaps that is because the higher gear scored ones aren't playing anymore.
  
  HRs seems to be making a bit of a comeback, but they, along with GWFs, have been practically driven to extinction by TRs. Heck, anytime I play there are 2 and sometimes 3 of them on the opposing team. Yesterday, one of them was parked on my team's home node, and it took 3 of us to dislodge him. We'd get him worn down and he'd run off, only to return seconds later nearly all healed. I landed innumerable Roots on him and he seemed to just shake them off. I'm guessing he had high tenacity.

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• kaedennn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 361 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  rayrdan wrote: »

  You may have some gear problems, my roots can ticks even for 10k + each seconds for 7 seconds...by undodgable i mean that damage cannot be avoided most of the time so trapper are a bit overperforming what they really are atm.

  
  It's 7 sec on pve , and halfed in pvp (3,5 sec minus control resist and tenacity of opponent ) so 2/3 ticks max .
  
  And personnal bonus control doesn't work with roots duration , so don't say your roots ticks for 7sec on players , that's impossible .

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• ximae Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  kaedennn wrote: »

  It's 7 sec on pve , and halfed in pvp (3,5 sec minus control resist and tenacity of opponent ) so 2/3 ticks max .
  
  And personnal bonus control doesn't work with roots duration , so don't say your roots ticks for 7sec on players , that's impossible .

  
  not 7 for sure, but capstone 60% incrsed duration does work. so its more like 5 sec minus tenacity/ control resist.

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• bjanu Member Posts: 122 Bounty Hunter

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Impossible to catch of trs make them deflect anything for 5 seconds, deflect reduces control effects by its severity - since trs has base 75% deflect severity they will reduce your roots by 75% of time so 7/11 becomes 3.5/5.5 after pvp mark, and after the deflect 0.875/1.375 seconds so basically you get one tick of roots on them and this is without including tenacity.
  I am saying and i will keep saying that rogues are broken - too much of everything - survivability/damage/control in one class. Only way to fight them - have way superior gear.

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• nitron0va Member Posts: 18 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  bjanu wrote: »

  Impossible to catch of trs make them deflect anything for 5 seconds, deflect reduces control effects by its severity - since trs has base 75% deflect severity they will reduce your roots by 75% of time so 7/11 becomes 3.5/5.5 after pvp mark, and after the deflect 0.875/1.375 seconds so basically you get one tick of roots on them and this is without including tenacity.
  I am saying and i will keep saying that rogues are broken - too much of everything - survivability/damage/control in one class. Only way to fight them - have way superior gear.

  
  I totally agree with you...I dunno why the devs are allowing this to happen.

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• xnewyorkhardcore Member Posts: 141 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Fox NEVER works for me. I get one-shotted all the time on hubs while Fox is only 3 sec into cool down.

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• xnewyorkhardcore Member Posts: 141 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  nitron0va wrote: »

  I totally agree with you...I dunno why the devs are allowing this to happen.

  
  Sucks that HRs used to be a controller class. All the roots are useless in PVP now. Disruptive shot won't even disrupt a TR let alone daze him. My 16k TR was fine in PVP before Mod5. Now it's just ******ed.
  
  
  Why they're allowing it? They made it so. Everyone and their kid brother has made a TR since Mod5. In a few mods, after everyone has invested, they'll weaken it again and make another class superior so everyone reinvests. You're being farmed.

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• xnewyorkhardcore Member Posts: 141 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  No. The only thing unfair about fighting an invisible opponent who can kill a player with 5k better gear in one shot after stunning him for six seconds is...that it's actually real.
  
  The fact remains, PVP is a financial juggernaut. Sooo many people open their wallets just to beat the other players, that nothing will ever really be fair about it. Fair isn't in the contract. If this were not a Freemium game, then we could expect fairness, because that's what we would have paid for. Fair PVP + Freemium = Impossible.

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• noetic2 Member Posts: 150 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  xnewyorkhardcore wrote: »

  Why they're allowing it? They made it so. Everyone and their kid brother has made a TR since Mod5. In a few mods, after everyone has invested, they'll weaken it again and make another class superior so everyone reinvests. You're being farmed.

  Not exactly the pattern. If so, you'd expect that every new class would be overpowered, just as HRs were in the beginning. Get people to invest in a new class, and after a few months nerf it into obsolescence so that they move on to a new class. But SWs have not worked out that way. If anything the least powerful PvP class. The emergence of indestructible DCs hardly follows that logic. Seems like an attempt to take care of the shortage of DCs in PvE.

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• xnewyorkhardcore Member Posts: 141 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  noetic2 wrote: »

  Not exactly the pattern. If so, you'd expect that every new class would be overpowered, just as HRs were in the beginning. Get people to invest in a new class, and after a few months nerf it into obsolescence so that they move on to a new class. But SWs have not worked out that way. If anything the least powerful PvP class. The emergence of indestructible DCs hardly follows that logic. Seems like an attempt to take care of the shortage of DCs in PvE.

  
  Not saying it's an exact science or precisely cyclical, but the fact that SWs aren't great in PVP didn't stop a ton of people from making them. If they get tweaked in a few mods to be dominant in PVP, then you'll have a ton of people jumping on the wagon as if it were a new class all over again. DCs also became prolific in Mod 5. Just saying...

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• noetic2 Member Posts: 150 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  xnewyorkhardcore wrote: »

  Fox NEVER works for me. I get one-shotted all the time on hubs while Fox is only 3 sec into cool down.

  Same with me. Seldom register a miss. Not sure if it works at all with Daze.

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• noetic2 Member Posts: 150 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  While on the subject of feats that don't work as advertised, leading the list of powers that are broken (or deliberately reduced to nothingness) is Cold Steel Hurricane. I do not even remember what CSH looks like. Only used it once or twice myself, and absolutely nobody else ever uses it because all it does is fire graphics. Negligible damage, negligible control, and hard to land. My theory is that developers at some stage, either in development or in balancing classes, decided that weak grasping roots are a bad idea because other classes find them annoying. But instead of throwing them out, or redesigning them, they dialed them down to where they were useless. Same with the stun in Disrupting Shot.

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