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We don't need harder hitting mobs in PVE
umcjdking
Member Posts: 276 Arc User
We needs mobs that CC. Case in point - Dread Vault.
My GF can practically solo any skirmish, dungeon or dragon out there given enough time. Dread Vault though? I get chewed up and spit out like any other 10k GF. Why?
Because dem stuns.
Devs, think back to the mission architect in COH (or Carnies really). All the mobs had capability to CC you and completely obliterate the team. In the Mission Architect, you could design mobs that would ruin your life if you weren't careful enough. If you didn't have an Emp or Bubbler in Lord Recluse/Statesman's TF you would just get CC'd into oblivion.
What PVE is missing is a scalable ability which determines the level of CC mobs can employ on you. Including CC to mobs in PVE will force a paradigm shift of the 1 DC 4 CW team that dominates PVE right now. Whenever there is a threat to the CW damage spam due to incredulous amounts of CC; Neverwinter class roles realize themselves and we actually have a well built party and a fun dungeon crawl.
My GF can practically solo any skirmish, dungeon or dragon out there given enough time. Dread Vault though? I get chewed up and spit out like any other 10k GF. Why?
Because dem stuns.
Devs, think back to the mission architect in COH (or Carnies really). All the mobs had capability to CC you and completely obliterate the team. In the Mission Architect, you could design mobs that would ruin your life if you weren't careful enough. If you didn't have an Emp or Bubbler in Lord Recluse/Statesman's TF you would just get CC'd into oblivion.
What PVE is missing is a scalable ability which determines the level of CC mobs can employ on you. Including CC to mobs in PVE will force a paradigm shift of the 1 DC 4 CW team that dominates PVE right now. Whenever there is a threat to the CW damage spam due to incredulous amounts of CC; Neverwinter class roles realize themselves and we actually have a well built party and a fun dungeon crawl.
Post edited by umcjdking on
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Too many long cast AoEs now that are meant to kill. Need faster ones meant to CC. They had it right with bosses like the adventuring competing party from Cragmire that could have been turned into normal enemies.
so that you would never go in a dungeon finishing it alone.
The players will not be able to handle it /10char
Then they should learn or just do normal modes. Hard modes are fun.
Most video-game players want to feel challenged and feel rewarded after winning.
And why you used /10char on that? :S
Most? No. The minority. The majority just want to feel supreme.
I disagree from personal experience of those I play with. There is bias in that, but it's all I can base it on.
Lets take Diablo 3 as an example. Enemies were pretty much one shotting you in end-game content.
Therefore the "casual player" (the largest amount of the player base and therefore the one with the most revenue for the developer) got destroyed in Diablo 3 and couldn't play the game.
It took long time to shift that into enemies with lots of HP and less damage. Things in Diablo 3 as of now are still deadly, but there are not much enemy mechanics that can be easily counterplayed.
Compare to NW:
M1 had Fomorians and Cyclops. Their red areas were 1 shots for average players in Malabogs Castle.
Even later back, Castle Never. Draco Lich "Hands" one shotted people if they get hit by it.
This was frustrating for casuals.
M2 Valindra - Valindra had more HP than any boss before, also split the boss phase and added side objectives (caskets).
This should result in a longer dragged out fight, while still some "thought" is needed.
Now all the way to now: Tiamat.
Waaaay simpler than VTs boss mechanics. Get a gem. Use gem. Boss does no damage.
Defending the clerics. Kill mobs -> Win.
Also Tiamat is split over 5 single heads and all of them have really high HP.
Yes Tiamat is more a skirmish and not a dungeon, yes there are 20 ppl in Tiamat.
However it is still a bossfight and 20 divided by 5 heads means 5 ppl assigned to 1 head.
(I think the intention is to fight 5x5 in Tiamat, I personally prefer Zerging. Please keep the discussion on topic and don't start talking to me about 5x5 vs Zerging in Tiamat.)
Now the changes in mobs groups and their quality.
Release, M1 and M2 - CW was King in Dungeons. The masses of Minion and Standard class enemies was huge (mob spam) and their AoE and mechanics like Singularity made them fit perfectly.
Singu got nerfed and CW reworked. In addition Cryptic wanted to enable single-target focused and classes with less AoE or less burst to be viable in PvE (GWF with slow aoe/ TR with arguably single-target and so on...).
Therefore in M3 and M4 even more, the enemy groups got smaller and their quality is higher!
There is way less "mob spam". Elites are way more common.
With the CW rework they also brought out the SW the guy that filled the "super AoE" damage role. However CW still is not Control focused and SW is OP, but I hope you get the point.
Conclusion: Higher Quality enemies means they pack a bigger punch. New Gear and higher gear stat levels (campaigns e.g.) allow even
damage focused characters to be reasonably tanky.
I think this is a vital change, also I hope CW will get a stronger focus in control. I know DnD allows him damage and I don't say he should hit like a wet noodle, but I really think he needs some tuning.
SW also needs some nerfs, their burst potential and damage in PvE is out of control xD.
Hope you guys get my ideas and Im hoping for some constructive responses.
Sincerely BlackyLuke
CC that can't hit won't do any good. With every mob hitting in slow motion, and every class having dodging abilities (except us poor GF), that's not going to help much.
What they need is CC diminishing return on mobs (so CW can't perma control), faster attack, and AoE stun / cc from mobs.
One answer....
Get a Prot GF in your groups and you will see it goes much better
Why you answer, when I never asked a question?
I explained the general progression, nowhere did I mentioned how I experienced the content or how im doing in PvE.
BiS or gear maxed players is a very, very small percentage of the player base. It wouldn't be economic to create content for these specific players. Therefore it won't happen. I don't like that myself, but thats a fact!
How so?
There's little to no incentive for people to get better gear, and that's pretty much why there are only a few with high-end gear. If any kind of hard content appear only for 20k+ GS, it's very, very likely that some players will spend some money to complete that content faster.
Fine. What of it? When I started this game it was on the recomendation of a friend. When he beat CN there was a Twitch stream of it and he was proud of it. Because, at that time, only a few could beat it and the rewards were worth something. And CC warriors would buy those rewards. That is, an example, of a game that works. I mean we are GAMERS we want challenges and we want to work to overcome those challenges. Right now the state of NeverWinter is that everything is do-able with minimal effort. That's not a game. Give us something to aspire to. Give us something to work towards. Give us a challenge to rise to. Economics is based on incentives. Give us incentives.
2-3 Months after release we ran CN in 20-30 minutes with 4 players.
The gearcap is the "unreachable goal" that should keep you playing. That PWE/Cryptic cannot fight 3rd Party sellers and botting that provide cheap (compared to ZEN prices) RP and Astral Diamonds, make P2W much more attractive and cheaper than intended. Therefore many more players hit the gearcap.
Maybe.
However whats with the 10-20k GS range that makes a way larger part of the player base. If these people cannot complete the main dungeon of a new module for example, how do you think the community reacts? How would everybody react if you then introduce a P2W mechanic so you don't need to run the dungeon.
Even for Neverwinter that would be upsetting. You can have my firstborn if that happens and if they release content for high-end players (compared to the majority) only.