GWF-class need really a lot of love.

clonkyo1 · January 2015

I will not explain the main reason i opened this thread (for once, it was not due PvP) and just focus on, IMHO, the main problem of the GWF-class right now:

Pls, DEVs, bring GWF-class power back!!!! not just to the "power" stat itself, halved for us but full for all other classes, but the damage to our encounters too!!!!! Is really sad that a GWF with 8k on power hits only for 20/30ks crit damage with IBS (not tree, feat or boon used, just the AoW set without any enchat on any piece of the gear and using the Ancient castle set) while i can do the same with my GF wearing the "Grand Regent" set on a normal hit from Anvil of Doom (as the GWF-test, not tree, feat or boon used, just the grand regent set without any enchant on any piece of the gear and using the ancient castle set).

burkaanc · January 2015

yeap gwf needs a lot of work, and not the "get 15923523085 stacks that increase damage of your pathetic skills that do 1 damage 1262 times"

stack system is bs
capstones could be used to increase damage for smth like 20% to make a difference between dps builds and sent, but not 50%+
how low lvl ppl that dont have capstones are supposed to play ?

determination gain change must be reversed, else you are forcing pve gwfs to run as low hp as possible to max unstoppable uptime, gwf should be a bit tanky, not 20k hp glass cannon

we need better base damage on skills and at wills + more damage resistance on unstoppable

grumblesmorf · January 2015

I'm leveling one for the first time right now. It doesn't seem too weak. It's a LOT weaker than the rogue I'm leveling at the same time, but that's just a given. Rogues are way OP right now. Leveling that guy is fun. I haven't been playing Neverwinter that long yet, but from what I gather the GWF class used to be a lot stronger than it is now and they nerfed it a lot because of PvP bologna. It's kind of weird seeing a lot of the same abilities my tank has, but none of the same damage mitigation. I expected more damage in exchange for the lower survivability but basically I just feel like I'm leveling my GF again, only this time I don't have a shield. So yeah, kind of lame. But as a new player, I can tell you leveling one isn't really all that hard right now. It's less cool than I thought it would be though, that's for sure. Some of the encounter powers feel really weak, especially that prone one. I never even use it now because it's so weak.

lewel555 · January 2015

clonkyo1 wrote: »

Pls, DEVs, bring GWF-class power back!!!!

It's more like "Devs, plz follow DnD 4e"
Stacks, 3-secs delays before anything procs, target caps, 2h sword that hits only from right to left, Fury that does not improve anything, class features that anihilate eachother instead of synergizing, cowardice (aka Sprint), there is none of this in the book.

It has reached the point where a 25k gwf can only hope to join a party if everyone else is below 15k. And still, they will not think "Hey cool we have a gwf", they will think "Hey cool we have a 25k"

zacazu · January 2015

gwf dont need love, need a divorce. the devs need give what we want and dont ask why. tug life

zacazu · January 2015

macjae wrote: »

GWFs are problematic because they lack a clear niche of their own, and they'll make other classes redundant if they get too strong overall. In the past, GWFs could tank better than GFs and do single-target damage better than TRs, which rendered GFs and TRs practically extinct in dungeon groups. At the same time, they're currently close to fairly well balanced in PvP, which is also a first; they mostly struggle with features of other classes that are too strong or broken, like Shocking Execution or Sunburst.

I think what they need is to get higher damage (and no cap or downscaling by number of targets) and larger area of effect on their area damage powers, and some mechanics that scale with the number of opponents they're fighting -- giving them additional tankiness (heals, DR or deflect) and damage when fighting large numbers of opponents. This would let them play with the desired style of wading in and dishing it out in PvE without upsetting PvP balancing much and ideally without taking away the GF's toys again.

A large number of GWF powers could also use some redesign efforts, as they're not very useful.

true. as I have already suggested to some time. If you take the damage reduction of aoe / increase radius of aoe powers (no increase in cap) you already increases the destroyer damage substantially.

as I suggested yesterday, if wicked strike for sentinels, instead to causing a debuff of 6% to the enemy damage cause 6% per target (total -36% of target) in a very rudimentary way is simple you turn the class into a great active tank x5. of course, this tank/damage depends the numbers of mobs.

both with 0 impact in pvp.

edit: just to note:

that is the reaping strike radius. the ideal radius for gwf considering the range/burst characterist, cap and lake of control (cw control the position of mobs for diferents ways and steps if somebody want compare). wiked strike hit 3 in the same position. wms, 2. how much enemies gwf dont hit in a party for the low proportion of radius-range? and the damage lost per target, x5, is close to half . make gwf solid (i dont say strong, just solid) is not traumatic for the game.

charononus · January 2015

The GWF is the example of why I don't want to see the dev's even touch the SW to improve it for pvp. Early in the games history the GWF was the worst class in the game, then mod2 hit and they buffed it up greatly. This caused the pvp'ers to go psychotic and demand it to be nerfed. Eventually it was. Now the GWF is even worse off than it was pre mod2.

mehguy138 · January 2015

charononus wrote: »

The GWF is the example of why I don't want to see the dev's even touch the SW to improve it for pvp. Early in the games history the GWF was the worst class in the game, then mod2 hit and they buffed it up greatly. This caused the pvp'ers to go psychotic and demand it to be nerfed. Eventually it was. Now the GWF is even worse off than it was pre mod2.

Actually, they sucked hard on release, then they got buffed in M1 and peple started to play regen-sentinel-tene GWFs, then they got buffed again in M2 with the addition of GF paragon, then they got passively nerfed due to healing depression introduction, then they got "reworked" in M3, then nerfed in M4 and almost untouched in M5.

All nerf cries came because of regen builds and deep gash (which was the least possible problem). The devs removed deep gash aka autoproc dot giving them instead a gazillion of damage amplifying stacks, and then gave that autoproc BS to every other class in the game. Now everyone deals 30-50% of damage via autorpocs, while GWF has to constantly keep gazillion of stacks and land horrendously slow abilities.

umcjdking · January 2015

Old Unstoppable DR needs to be allowed for all GWFs (maybe putting in an extra 30% in Steadfast Determination, 10% per level); figure something else for the Sentinel capstone (Maybe gain determination based on damage allies take?). Instigators and Destroyers just get manhandled because they require to be in FRONT of everyone and have no feasible way to survive the 8k power onslaught.

commanderdata001 · January 2015

Destroyer just got very good buffs!
Intimidation build is still very good if you have enough power.

zvieris · January 2015

commanderdata001 wrote: »

Destroyer just got very good buffs!
Intimidation build is still very good if you have enough power.

Good buffs? More like scraps. Ever thought how ******ed GWF's damage is that there are feats that increase his damage by like 100%+ and he still doesn't even come close to other strikers in damage dealt? As for sentinel, he's only playable from 8k+ power.

Whereas every other class is playable from lvl 1...

gomok72 · January 2015

My very first character on release was a GWF, he is still at level 51 and has not gained any XP from that, I don't think that the GWF is viable at this point when compared to other classes, Rogues face tank them and win with less GS, health and the likes (I know, I Play a Rogue to), I watch decent GWF get pummeled by Clerics who seem to be heals and damage.

I don't know, this is one class I just dont think this class is one of them classes the devs are too concerned about, it's a "FILLER" class and probably will always be in this game.

mehguy138 · January 2015

I want M2 Deep Gash back. Every class deals most of their damage through autoproc feats, why can't GWFs be made the same way?

rotatorkuf · January 2015

the class needs a total rework imo, we're talking DC rework levels

they also need to get off the whole "gwf is an offtank" thing

but then again, idk about DnD rules and what not, i'd think this is a brawler class, able to get in the middle of things and dole out some "great" damage

TR - they can deal out ridiculous damage (op damage currently), but they should die quickly, some do, some don't, they need to either tone down the stealth advantage or deflect advantage, class should be a glass cannon with stealth bonus, not a cannon with perma stealth bonus

HR - currently pretty okay imo, they can get in the middle of things but have a lot of escape/survivability tools, and still deal some threatening damage

gwf, imo, should sacrifice SOME damage while having better survivability, not so much tanking, maybe leave the tanking tree alone but tone down the broken daring shout feat, right now it's just a total mess, has no survivability when you try to do damage

the only viable spec you can run is totally broken, which is the AOE bomb with the daring shout / intimidation feat

class just honestly needs to get taken out back and whacked, start over

zvieris · January 2015

rotatorkuf wrote: »

the class needs a total rework imo, we're talking DC rework levels

they also need to get off the whole "gwf is an offtank" thing

but then again, idk about DnD rules and what not, i'd think this is a brawler class, able to get in the middle of things and dole out some "great" damage

TR - they can deal out ridiculous damage (op damage currently), but they should die quickly, some do, some don't, they need to either tone down the stealth advantage or deflect advantage, class should be a glass cannon with stealth bonus, not a cannon with perma stealth bonus

HR - currently pretty okay imo, they can get in the middle of things but have a lot of escape/survivability tools, and still deal some threatening damage

gwf, imo, should sacrifice SOME damage while having better survivability, not so much tanking, maybe leave the tanking tree alone but tone down the broken daring shout feat, right now it's just a total mess, has no survivability when you try to do damage

the only viable spec you can run is totally broken, which is the AOE bomb with the daring shout / intimidation feat

class just honestly needs to get taken out back and whacked, start over

Thanks for sharing the same vision of GWF

zacazu · January 2015

why a "rework"? complete package: no more aoe penalityes (include atwills and encounters) more radius and put mark+intimidation damage in the base (change mark bonus to threat bonus). that for a non powerfull challange build, potentially, is+15% of damage.

after that, if you change yout build, for example, using a sm-wicked strike+bf, 3 hits, only 3 hits will have the same damage of a live intimidation build. the single target the same of a m4 iv intimidation (encounters). you can test for yourself.

why pass to another traumatic rework where nobody knows what's going on? do that, adjust the time of class feature, improve steadfast determination and the class will work more than perfectly without any mysterious and broken skill. will be powerful as a force of nature and not a broken code.

zacazu · January 2015

more simple:

What I advocate is: instead to the damage come to mark, which in general only benefits sentinel / iv (especially in pvp) put this damage at the base. that is, not a buff, just a cleaning.

is 20% of tradeoff, ok? I would add + 15% corresponding to t2 the sentinel to this bonus. that is, a destroyer chose the path of instigator, potentially, it only received an additional 15% (if you use ds or tr to mark, now iv received a extra Atwill and sm a encounter). instigator the same+ t1/t2 of destroyer.

the old bonus of 20% of the mark + 15% can be a threat generator and retain their characteristic of combat advantage. even the sentinel atwill rotation will be ok, so, +35% of threat and the big radius solve the threat problem.

now; remember I talked about increasing the radius of atwills? well, steel blitz becomes a powerful class feature nd wms-ws will have a simple rotation of more than 50k x5 damage (in my case) in 3/4 sec for 12 sec until the next rotation encounters over 100k (iam speak about a solo damage, no party influency). you WILL hit five, and this five will receive a big damage and this damage garantee threat. that is, other classes can no longer harm your performance and you dont have this risk.

just get these buffs that were anarchically give to the class in the last year and with an adjustment to the radius, put order in the house. dont need involve the gf balance or pass to another bad experience like the rogues today, after be a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> class, need justify your broken feets.

warlocks should receive buffs for pvp that will destroy the class, so ... it's a question of demanding the right thing and see whats happening. be strong without going through a crisis is possible.

while the cw are making 30k no cap (hahah) you will be making solid 50k dps x5 + single damages above 100+ibs or burst aoe above 50k+ibs.

GWF-class need really a lot of love.

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