PVP 20 vs 20 balance

juliofp70 · December 2014

I have a question... why armories of moradir is allways black lotus, exodus, absolute, MD_40, etc at the same side and pugs stay on the other side? This is a joke? This is what you call pvp balance??? In my opinion there is a GM making them staying allways together... Congrats for that... You make them happy.

burkaanc · December 2014

it depends on what side is your guild registered, they might have chosen to go to least populated side so it is easier to get queue(and win moar)

blackyluke · December 2014

If you mean Delzoun vs Luskan balance:
Delzoun once was the side with a little bit more of the good guilds.
So more and more guilds switched and pugs too!
This ended up with a ridiculous rate of Delzouns vs Luskans.
Delz never got into queue cause there were to few Luskans.
-> Elite guilds switch to Luskan to get into PvP games.

If you mean movement ingame:
Okay its a 5-point domination game.
Whats better going to dominate the side with 3 points, or the one with 2 points?
Teamwork OP yo!

OP I applaud to you, that you made this post - I mean using a computer - must be
a huge success! I hope you don't give up and continue trying to break the barriers
you limited mental resources restrict you to.

rashylewizz · December 2014

You said it yourself, all the relevant/strong guilds have switched to Luskan. If you see a lot of these PVP guilds in your matchup, get ready to be spawncamped by the Luskan.

oh by the way, it is not PVP guilds against pugs, its PVP guilds against PVE guilds. Of course the best PVP guilds will make the best PVE guilds look like pugs in a 20vs20 mode.

juliofp70 · December 2014

ty burkaanc, now i get it.

blackyluke go play with your legos, let the grown ups talks.

grimelrok · December 2014

unbalanced premades vs pugs is something I still think Cryptic needs to fix asap. IDK why anyone in a premade would have fun vs a pug that can't give them a challenge, or vice versa. So clearly both sides have something to gain for them to ensure it'd be pugs vs pugs and premades vs premades. The current matchmaker system is in dire need of a revamp and I know cryptic is wanting to fix it, just not sure they know how to. The last I heard of them mucking with the matchmaking system was about a year ago.

blackyluke · December 2014

juliofp70 wrote: »

blackyluke go play with your legos, let the grown ups talks.

hexanna22 · December 2014

The PVP guilds didn't go GG as big groups for a really long time, it was usually just alts that were trying to get some gear, etc. I got stomped many many times during this period--it was a crazy struggle to get 100 wins, months and months. But recently they have begun to do gg again as a big group with speculation of needing seals of triumph for DROW, and collecting grym coins for glory. Both PVE and PVP guild try to sync as many players as they can to get into GG at the same time. Perhaps join a guild that does this?

blackyluke · December 2014

grimelrok wrote: »

unbalanced premades vs pugs is something I still think Cryptic needs to fix asap. IDK why anyone in a premade would have fun vs a pug that can't give them a challenge, or vice versa. So clearly both sides have something to gain for them to ensure it'd be pugs vs pugs and premades vs premades. The current matchmaker system is in dire need of a revamp and I know cryptic is wanting to fix it, just not sure they know how to. The last I heard of them mucking with the matchmaking system was about a year ago.

They tried a matchmaking with elo just a few months ago, also continuesly on preview/dev shard.
The problem is NW doesn't offer a player base big enough for a correct and evenly matched PvP.
Premade or rather competitive PvP players don't enjoy playing against or with lower geared or frankly lower
skilled people at all. Considering things like the Refining System with Enchants/Artifact/Gear and the fact
that the in-game tooltip rarely explain number and mechanics of skills only a small pool of players can
be considered "competitive". There are also plenty of people who try, but think of themselves as "uber-pvp" players,
because they beat lower geared aka. unfairly matched players. Therefore and for other reasons we often
have a very biased PvP discussion and endless complains about the fact that some class is currently Overpowered.
This is in the first dimension an DnD title, thats why PvP is not the main focus for the Devs, they try to do their best
thats what im sure off though.

PS: A good example is @juliofp70 the OP of this thread. He doesn't like loosing, thats normal. Plenty of players in this
game are young and have problems dealing with loosing. Thats nothing weird or abnormal. Understanding that a loss
can also lead to information and can help you improving is not easy. People call PvP community here "toxic", that is
common among all kinds of PvP games: FPS, MOBA, RTS or MMORPG.

pointsman · December 2014

juliofp70 wrote: »

I have a question... why armories of moradir is allways black lotus, exodus, absolute, MD_40, etc at the same side and pugs stay on the other side? This is a joke? This is what you call pvp balance??? In my opinion there is a GM making them staying allways together... Congrats for that... You make them happy.

The PVP guilds just want easy wins. They don't really want a challenge, otherwise they would fight against each other.

vedran541 · December 2014

pointsman wrote: »

The PVP guilds just want easy wins. They don't really want a challenge, otherwise they would fight against each other.

Not really. The PvP guilds fight each other in PvP all the time. (nobody wants to spend 5 minutes in front of the emeny base campfire and another 5 mins waiting for que to pop, its boring)

But for GG, the reason my guild switched was because the que time for Delzoun was insanely long, there wasent even a guarantee to get a seal of triumph from GG that day because of the que time. Which was unacceptable and we were forced to switch. Which i assume other guilds did aswell. The switch for us came after they implemented the new PvP gear and we had to farm GG once a day.

Also if we got a good group together we could finish the GG game early and get another seal on our alts.

Unknown · December 2014

This content has been removed.

vedran541 · December 2014

morenthar wrote: »

That's what we did. I was the one who suggested we switch and half the guild thought I was bonkers because Luskans didn't win too often. I told them to be patient for a bit. Within a few weeks nobody was complaining.

As an example, Element has many top-level PvPers and they are on the Delzoun side.

Yeah there was alot of complaints in my guild also. But at the end of the day farming the seals was more important then farming the T2 dungeon because again they took away all possibilities to make any AD there. So people dident even care for that and loved the insta ques for GG. I still love it that i can que up with less then 5 mins remaining and get my daily done, just in case the new gear requires triumph seals.

blackyluke · December 2014

vedran541 wrote: »

Yeah there was alot of complaints in my guild also. But at the end of the day farming the seals was more important then farming the T2 dungeon because again they took away all possibilities to make any AD there. So people dident even care for that and loved the insta ques for GG. I still love it that i can que up with less then 5 mins remaining and get my daily done, just in case the new gear requires triumph seals.

Can only agree with that, gotta say btw I don't think Luskan wins all the time... Sure top guilds have a huge impact, but its not like whole guilds are hardcore farming GG all day.

thevampinator · December 2014

Pvp, is probaly the best in this game then all the other ones and thats because the way its set Up I know there is balance issues but there is one thing I think is worse then that they really need to fix, and thats the way the kills are counted, Im guessing its based on dps so if you killed someone in pvp you do not get credit for it, instead someone else not even near you gets the kill credit, if you push f and it ends them that needs to be fixed badly, because if you did the ending of them you should get the credit for it Im thinking there is a glitch there, with the way they have it set up with the dps counter thing, but its something that needs to be adressed, Because I want the kills for the achevement and I can;t get them even if I do the killing because someone else that was not even near them can get the credit for just standing there

blackyluke · December 2014

thevampinator wrote: »

Pvp, is probaly the best in this game then all the other ones and thats because the way its set Up I know there is balance issues but there is one thing I think is worse then that they really need to fix, and thats the way the kills are counted, Im guessing its based on dps so if you killed someone in pvp you do not get credit for it, instead someone else not even near you gets the kill credit, if you push f and it ends them that needs to be fixed badly, because if you did the ending of them you should get the credit for it Im thinking there is a glitch there, with the way they have it set up with the dps counter thing, but its something that needs to be adressed, Because I want the kills for the achevement and I can;t get them even if I do the killing because someone else that was not even near them can get the credit for just standing there

Can't tell if trolling or stupid.

elewyndyl · December 2014

thevampinator wrote: »

Pvp, is probaly the best in this game then all the other ones and thats because the way its set Up I know there is balance issues but there is one thing I think is worse then that they really need to fix, and thats the way the kills are counted, Im guessing its based on dps so if you killed someone in pvp you do not get credit for it, instead someone else not even near you gets the kill credit, if you push f and it ends them that needs to be fixed badly, because if you did the ending of them you should get the credit for it Im thinking there is a glitch there, with the way they have it set up with the dps counter thing, but its something that needs to be adressed, Because I want the kills for the achevement and I can;t get them even if I do the killing because someone else that was not even near them can get the credit for just standing there

I honestly do not know exactly how it calculates exactly the mathematical form who gets the kill, but it is NOT only who dealt the last damage that counts as kill. It is also affected in some cases with who dealt most damage also who affects it. This is exactly how it should be!

Sure a Rogue get more kills, but to make it so that only the last damage would count for who gets kill would unbalance it even more. The system works really well as it is now!

Edit: I have played PvP with Rogue, Clerics, Warlock and Ranger and all kinds of PvP in Neverwinter.

kleeji · December 2014

elewyndyl wrote: »

I honestly do not know exactly how it calculates exactly the mathematical form who gets the kill, but it is NOT only who dealt the last damage that counts as kill. It is also affected in some cases with who dealt most damage also who affects it. This is exactly how it should be!

You couldn't be more wrong. Who gets the kill is 100% based on who hit last, the hit that killed the target. This is the case in both gg pvp and domination. In icewind dale pvp everybody who dealt any damage at all gets a kill message pop up(because communism).

rashylewizz · December 2014

pointsman wrote: »

The PVP guilds just want easy wins. They don't really want a challenge, otherwise they would fight against each other.

PVP guilds do fight each other all the time in regular domination. Its just that in a large scale 20vs20 war, its a welcome change that they are able to trample such a huge group of players.

I'm sure there are lots of guilds in the Delzoun with their fair share of 20k GS players. Why don't they issue a challenge?

rashylewizz · December 2014

blackyluke wrote: »

Can only agree with that, gotta say btw I don't think Luskan wins all the time... Sure top guilds have a huge impact, but its not like whole guilds are hardcore farming GG all day.

EU and NA based PVP guilds join in at different times of the day. It used to be that the Delzoun always won all the instances with few PVP guilds on. Delzoun also used to win majority of the PVP matches.

Is that still the case? It seems like the Luskan force is just generally more powerful nowadays even without the instance full of Luskan PVP guilds.

lewel555 · January 2015

So, the current situation for Delzouns is they have to wait a long time without any certainty to ever get queued, and once/if they're queued they lose?
Great.

zvieris · January 2015

It's the mentality that Delzoun always wins that got things where they are now. When I came back from my break ~4 months ago and joined a fresh pvp guild I asked what their allegiance is going to be. They were like "Delzoun, of course! We want to win!" I left the other day and found a Luskan guild. I'd rather always get in the queue (even when there's 7 minutes left and I just queued) and fight for the slight chance at winning rather than face the huge chance of never getting in the GG even if I queue from the get-go.

Like I said in another thread, the majority of westerners don't want a challenge, they want to feel supreme. Thus, they join the strong faction and in turn only make it weaker. Same goes with class balance (look how many TRs are there), party restrictions and whatnot.

blackyluke · January 2015

lewel555 wrote: »

So, the current situation for Delzouns is they have to wait a long time without any certainty to ever get queued, and once/if they're queued they lose?
Great.

As I explained above. Delz had more OP guilds -> Low Guilds and Mass Guilds switched -> OP guilds who needed seals when new PvP armor came out wanted to join games -> switched to Luskans -> now they farm for Drow armor -> OP guilds vs Low/Mass Guilds.

rashylewizz · January 2015

lewel555 wrote: »

So, the current situation for Delzouns is they have to wait a long time without any certainty to ever get queued, and once/if they're queued they lose?
Great.

Yes. All the PVP guilds slowly switched to Luskan a while back because of faster queues and they never cared about doing the delzoun crypts part.

zvieris wrote: »

Like I said in another thread, the majority of westerners don't want a challenge, they want to feel supreme. Thus, they join the strong faction and in turn only make it weaker. Same goes with class balance (look how many TRs are there), party restrictions and whatnot.

Not really. The big PVP guilds originally switched to Luskan because of faster queue times. You do realize that Luskan was awful back then right?

PVP 20 vs 20 balance

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