Do you use a specialized build for Tiamat?

katamaster81899 · December 2014

In the Tiamat raid, I have found that I normally score within the top 5 players. While this is good and all, I'm not happy with this, as I am constantly dying. Every single attack can kill me, with a single hit. Even the ones that aren't depicted with a red circle.

Is this normal for CWs, or am I not using my limited Stamina and dodges effectively enough? I can usually dodge these attacks, but I run out of stamina and die. I'd like to add some more survival without sacrificing much DPS. I plan on getting those new power/arp Jewelcrafting rings within the next week or so (lvl 19 crafting now), and I will have 4 more defense slots to fill. What should I put in them? And what builds are you guys using for Tiamat?

I've listed my stats below, and I believe they are pretty typical for a 19k Spellstorm Thaumaturge CW. I use the High Vizier set, and I have a G.vorp:

Power: 9.5k
Crit: 3k
ArPen: 2.1k
Recovery: 3.6k
Defense: 0.8k
Lifesteal: 1.3k
Regen: 0.8k
AP Gain: 400
HP: 25k

nathyiel · December 2014

I use my ever working MoF/Thaum buid in full SW gear, similar to Chem's build. I change setup for single target. For IWD related things, I swap to 2+2 (SW+Corrupted).

I end up kitting some add but I can't see how CW can badly perform on this fight.

flyingleon · December 2014

I also noticed the problem that the mobs hit very hard. In this case, I always thought about raising the HP. But many people like to do damage. I actually think Tiamat should not allowing reviving from the campfire so that it could be really challenge.

unstableviking · December 2014

katamaster81899 wrote: »

In the Tiamat raid, I have found that I normally score within the top 5 players. While this is good and all, I'm not happy with this, as I am constantly dying. Every single attack can kill me, with a single hit. Even the ones that aren't depicted with a red circle.

Is this normal for CWs, or am I not using my limited Stamina and dodges effectively enough? I can usually dodge these attacks, but I run out of stamina and die. I'd like to add some more survival without sacrificing much DPS. I plan on getting those new power/arpJewelcrafting rings within the next week or so (lvl 19 crafting now), and I will have 4 more defense slots to fill. What should I put in them? And what builds are you guys using for Tiamat?

I've listed my stats below, and I believe they are pretty typical for a 19k Spellstorm Thaumaturge CW. I use the High Vizier set, and I have a G.vorp:
Power: 9.5k

Crit: 3k

ArPen: 2.1k

Recovery: 3.6k

Defense: 0.8k

Lifesteal: 1.3k

Regen: 0.8k

AP Gain: 400

HP: 25k

1.) Recovery is darn near the same from 2.8k to 3.5k ( I know because I saw no difference when I reduced mine)
2.) .8k Defense and 25k HP ? Talk about a GLASS CANNON, no wonder why you die sooo quickly.
Beef up the Defenses/HP, reduce your Recovery to around 2.8/3k.
My 18.1k CW has: 6k power/2.5k Crit/1.7 ArP/ 2.5k Recovery/ 2.2k Defense and 30k HP, and I can take alot of punishment (not to mention using Soulforged is Paramount.

kieranmtorn · December 2014

I change my build slightly to run Tiamat. I add defense and hp's at the expense of power/recov/crit (I only swap a ring of pain-r8 radiant for a ring of shielding-r8 radiant). I find I need just a little bit more hp's & defense. My equipement is comparable to yours, but I run less power and more defense/arp. For feats that matter I have the +3% LS & Endless Consumption (so my lifesteal is excessive at 13%) and +5 Critical Severity. So in Tiamat, I'm at 1.5k defense & 28k hp (+10% defense from potions/scrolls). When I get my personalized rings done, I'm raising my hp's some more.

I also take a kind of strange spell list since I'm try to maximize the HV debuffs I can apply to a dragon head. CS(Tab), ST, SS, ROE, IK, OF and CS(Tab), ST, SS, IT, IK, OF when defending the clerics. I'm also a big fan of camping the spawn point and doing a Steal Time as the devils gate in.

katamaster81899 · December 2014

unstableviking wrote: »

1.) Recovery is darn near the same from 2.8k to 3.5k ( I know because I saw no difference when I reduced mine)
2.) .8k Defense and 25k HP ? Talk about a GLASS CANNON, no wonder why you die sooo quickly.
Beef up the Defenses/HP, reduce your Recovery to around 2.8/3k.
My 18.1k CW has: 6k power/2.5k Crit/1.7 ArP/ 2.5k Recovery/ 2.2k Defense and 30k HP, and I can take alot of punishment (not to mention using Soulforged is Paramount.

The Recovery is because i use the High Viz set, it cannot easily be avoided, and I don't want to lost so much damage, I guarantee I will deal 2-3x times more damage then you will in the Tiamat fight...

aulduron · December 2014

I use my AE loadout for Tia: CoI, SS, IT, ST, with SS and CP. I'm usually in the top 5, despite dieing so often. After dragons, I rarely make it back across that red line, without a stop at the campfire.

charononus · December 2014

First of all with the rankings, you get points for dying. That means you probably aren't doing as well in contributing as you think you are, if you die as much as you say.

Second your HP is too low. My 7kgs leadership alt that I leveled this weekend is only 1000hp less than you.

katamaster81899 · December 2014

charononus wrote: »

First of all with the rankings, you get points for dying. That means you probably aren't doing as well in contributing as you think you are, if you die as much as you say.

Second your HP is too low. My 7kgs leadership alt that I leveled this weekend is only 1000hp less than you.

When I say "Dying a lot" I mean I die 1-5 times each raid which imo is too much as each time I die costs my instance some DPS temporarily as I ride back.

I don't mean I die 10+ times like a 10k n0ob, most of my points come from DPS, not dying -> I score higher when I don't die much or at all.

inthefade462 · December 2014

I die about as often (1-3 times per raid) on my new CW i just leveled this 2x weekend. Have been going in from 10k to current 12k gs. I'm guessing I do a lot less damage than you but i'm also usually top 5. I have 22k hp and like 1300 defense before hv buffs. no augment yet or real gear yet other than 50k ad i dropped for full HV/t2 weapons. Haven't enchanted yet just a bunch of Dark 4s leftover from refining lol.

am MoF/Rene, I slot full AOE control, was tempted to respec to oppressor actually just for tiamat. For me CW role in Tiamat is cleric phase, always being first to have cleric to full health, never missing a single demon spawn and keeping them full cc and grouped up so someone with more than lolgs can clear them. On a side cleric I only need a decent (13-15k) gwf or a tr to help me clear the mobs as I hold all the demons and all the aggro, only need 1 dodge to cover the gaps in cc coverage. Only time I really die is when some idiot comes over and icestorm/sunbursts mobs out of my cc, cus when they are out of range they all charge me and my laughable defenses can't survive 2+ simultaneous hits.

But the reason i haven't swapped to oppressor is that the rene capstone just adds so much DPS to the raid (25x 30% dmg buff, 10% lifesteal/crit, zomg) When capstone procs more than just the heals, head health just plummets, sometimes raids accidently kill heads from 40% when it procs cus dps just jumps so much.

c1k4ml3kc3 · December 2014

I vote for a specialized build because I never run something generic. :P

nhogs · December 2014

Ok my build is oppressor (still) and I had a similar problem. However what I realised was my movement was too low... so I have upped my movement to about 10% and changed powers so that mobs are prone, stunned and iced. With Steal Time in the Tab space I can move quickly about the battlefield and now don't die much (if at all) - the other tip is to pick up the Green soul gem - for some reason this is the only head I was dying on - a bit of a mystery but picking up the gem basically sorts it. (have HZ, GPF, 18k GS etc.)

angrymanagement · December 2014

Generic build (renegade) with ROE instead of Sudden Storm.
Amazing how few renegades you see in Tiamat.....love when both the red & blue chaos magic buffs are up & stuff just disentigrates.

abaddon523 · December 2014

katamaster81899 wrote: »

In the Tiamat raid, I have found that I normally score within the top 5 players. While this is good and all, I'm not happy with this, as I am constantly dying. Every single attack can kill me, with a single hit. Even the ones that aren't depicted with a red circle.

Is this normal for CWs, or am I not using my limited Stamina and dodges effectively enough? I can usually dodge these attacks, but I run out of stamina and die. I'd like to add some more survival without sacrificing much DPS. I plan on getting those new power/arp Jewelcrafting rings within the next week or so (lvl 19 crafting now), and I will have 4 more defense slots to fill. What should I put in them? And what builds are you guys using for Tiamat?

I've listed my stats below, and I believe they are pretty typical for a 19k Spellstorm Thaumaturge CW. I use the High Vizier set, and I have a G.vorp:
Power: 9.5k

Crit: 3k

ArPen: 2.1k

Recovery: 3.6k

Defense: 0.8k

Lifesteal: 1.3k

Regen: 0.8k

AP Gain: 400

HP: 25k

I run a generic build. However, the generic build I use is far, far tankier than what you have here. I think that durability is one of the more undervalued commodities among the CW community. The ability to stay alive when others bite the dust is much more valuable than people currently treat it. As such, I currently have nearly 35k HP and 1.8k Defense. That makes me pretty darn hard to kill in Tiamat. The only ways I die are the Lightning breath and the Acid breath if people mistime their gems (also when I get a nice lag spike while jumping between platforms and fall to my death, but let's not talk about that). Adds tend not to bother me much at all. I have this HP and Defense despite using no companions that grant active bonuses to HP or defense (or any stat, actually) and I wear High Vizier set. So it is definitely possible to use your current gear and adjust your enchantments/artifacts/reinforcement kits to make yourself a lot sturdier. If you are curious, my build is here:

Follow this link:

http://lobo.nwo-uncensored.com/minmax.php

Then paste this string of text into the box on the lower right and click "load"

{"selectClass":"PlayerController","prestidigitationRank":"0","domainSynergyRank":"0","initiateOfTheFaithRank":"0","steelyDefenseRank":"0","discipleOfWarRank":"0","toughnessRank":"3","isHuman":"on","conValue":"13","chaValue":"21","selectSetArmor":"","selectSetWeapon":"","selectRating":"","selectSetJewelry":"","selectHead":"22","selectHeadReinforce":"6","selectArmor":"23","selectArmorReinforce":"6","selectArmorGem0":"13","selectArms":"24","selectArmsReinforce":"6","selectMain":"83","selectMainGem1":"1","selectMainGem0":"1","selectOffHand":"87","selectOffHandGem2":"","selectOffHandGem1":"13","selectOffHandGem0":"1","selectFeet":"25","selectFeetReinforce":"6","selectNeck":"289","selectNeckReinforce":"0","selectNeckGem0":"1","selectRing1":"318","selectRing1Reinforce":"0","selectRing1Gem1":"13","selectRing1Gem0":"1","selectRing2":"319","selectRing2Reinforce":"0","selectRing2Gem1":"13","selectRing2Gem0":"1","selectWaist":"332","selectWaistReinforce":"0","selectWaistGem0":"13","selectShirt":"79","selectShirtGem0":"1","selectPants":"81","selectPantsGem0":"12","selectArti1":"360","selectArti2":"361","selectArti3":"353","selectPet1":"","selectPet2":"","selectPet3":"","selectPet4":"","selectPet5":"","selectAugment":"7","selectAugmentRune2":"14","selectAugmentRune1":"14","selectAugmentRune0":"14","selectAugmentGear2":"319","selectAugmentGear2Reinforce":"1","selectAugmentGear2Gem1":"1","selectAugmentGear2Gem0":"1","selectAugmentGear1":"319","selectAugmentGear1Reinforce":"1","selectAugmentGear1Gem1":"1","selectAugmentGear1Gem0":"1","selectAugmentGear0":"319","selectAugmentGear0Reinforce":"1","selectAugmentGear0Gem1":"1","selectAugmentGear0Gem0":"1","selectBoon1":"424","selectBoon2":"426","selectBoon3":"427","selectBoon4":"428","selectBoon5":"430","selectBoon6":"432","selectBoon7":"434","selectBoon8":"436","selectBoon9":"437","selectBoon10":"438","selectBoon11":"441","selectBoon12":"443","selectBoon13":"444"}

I also made a quick reference for people who are wondering whether they should increase their defense or their HP. It is here:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?812371-HP-vs-Defense-Guide

For you, the answer is both. Even though you are on the "ideal durability line" you need a healthy amount more of both. For example, if you take one hit from an enemy that is 30k damage (before mitigation) you're dead. The build I'm using is able to take over 47k of enemy damage (before mitigation) before I hit the deck. There are a lot of things in Tiamat that can hit for 20k to 30k damage (which can potentially one-shot you), but none other than the breath that will hit for anywhere near 47k.

nathyiel · January 2015

I did a few run and I remove Shard for FtF.
I now run with CoI (tab) + ST + IT + FtF. It really work good if add are packed.

lewel555 · January 2015

Yes I use a specialized build but not very different from my usual build, which is a single-target build. The TAB spell is the only thing I switch.

katamaster81899 · January 2015

So from what I can tell, a glass cannon build is not effective in Tiamat... That's kinda.... disappointing...

c1k4ml3kc3 · January 2015

It's quite simply to counter the mobs.

SS version : Take 6 wizards out of which the two will have the sudden storm 5xchill, previously place icy terrain on both MID parts where the devils rise from. While they're frozen, use two CW to repel them towards the middle ledge, and the remaining two to repel them down (also using shield just in case).

MoF version (better one) : Take 4 wizards, out of whom two are MoF and two are SS and use dailies for the control, repeat the process from the SS version.

And each of them can have the shield, thus avoiding any potential hit. besides, devils don't kill in a single hit unless your GS is lower than 17k, in which case you need the shield there anyway, just for decoration though.

The alternative, and my favorite method, is simply killing it all. Just like that. But, stupid DC have to come and sunburst the hell out of devils before us Wizards can do anything worthwhile and perhaps kill a devil or two.

But, then again, I've seen Wizards using Arcane singularity to drop the devils directly on Linu Cleric, resulting in my anger. Apparently, it's hard to understand "stay away from the cleric".

This is why we need a GUILD RUN, so that we can make a deal between ourselves to collect an appropriate amount of Dragon coffers and then make the time available when we're going to log in and go to LvL IV boon. This is how it was intended, but for whatever reason we can't get there in the same zone despite the fact that we enter at the exact same time. Infuriating, to say the least.

nathyiel · January 2015

For kitting killing all add correctly, it only need two CW :
1- one specialized in chill/freeze.
2- one specialized in Steal time stun for the 3s of Freeze immunity.

The other solution is one CW to "bait" them near the border, and the other just do the little push needed.

Do you use a specialized build for Tiamat?

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