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Artifact Off Hand vs Main hand + suggestions for next artifact gear.
denvald
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 702 Arc User
This thread is big, get ready for some power packing ideas I've been saving up for a while since mod 5 came out.
Artifact main hands vs off hands
The artifact off hand system is far more enjoyable and superior IMO in comparison to the main hand system.
So why you may ask?
Well here's the thing, each main hand weapons have different stats and varied effects depending on what class features (at wills) you are using. So if you are using the Artifact main hand for Hand of Blight for a warlock, you will get the effect for hand of blight and life steal, hp and power stats. You get alot less customization aspect than you do with your off hand. If you decide you'd prefer to use the effect for another at-will you need to.. dump your current weapon completely (or keep and pay another millions of refine points) into your new one and refine it too.
For artifacts off hand however, every of the 10 class feature are incorporated inside the same item and you unlock each for 50k(4 cubes), then you pay 5k to switch between each features. This is a much preferable system, it's much more enjoyable and convenient for players this way. You ALSO get to customize one of it's stats on it (which is something you couldn't do with main hand weapon). And I love the idea of paying cubes to upgrade it with a random stat number up to 400 on it. It's an interesting AD dump for the game.
For those who don't know, the stat system will cost cubes of augmentation which you find on the wondrous bazaar, you pay those to 'roll' a random stat from 1 to 400 on your artifact, and the roll you get is the amount the stat will give you on the artifact. If your new roll is lower than the previous roll you will keep your highest roll so far made on the item.
I know it might be late now, but incorporating this system to existing main hand weapons, and/or next upcoming artifact gears would be great and much more convenient for players.
Suggestions for next artifact gear
So while I was thinking about the roll stat system for artifact gears, I got thinking about the applications we could make of it for the next artifact gears to come in the next mods. Currently we can have among the following stats for artifact gear:
-Action Point Gain
-AoE Resist
-Combat Advantage Bonus
-Companion Influence
-Control Bonus
-Control Resist
-Regeneration
-Stamina/Guard Gain
The first thing that comes to mind is, why not add tenacity?
For hardcore pvp'ers like me, it definitly sounds like an interesting option. (400 maybe too much so perhaps get 1/2 or 1/3rd of the rolled value for tenacity?) Artifact equipment is meant to be best in slot items because of the amount of investment required to get them to legendary levels, and it is, but sadly players have to sacrifice potential tenacity stat (which is pretty important) for PvP. So instead we could get the option of either raising one of the aforementioned stats like regeneration or sacrifice this stat and get tenacity. (Possibly changing between them for an AD cost, another AD sink, more player coveniency!)
More thoughts, even more applications!
1. Incorporating stat rolls to customize a stat on the next artifact equipments (Tenacity, Action Point Gain, AoE Resist, Combat Advantage Bonus, Companion Influence, Control Bonus, Control Resist, Regeneration, Stamina/Guard Gain for example). So if you're a hardened PvP player, or a PvE player, or a little bit of both. Those features will have something for you to gain from.
Tenacity for PvP players, the other stats for the PvE player, and the ability to switch between these stats for the player in between that does both. Sounds like an ideal world for every type of player right there. For example, the tenacity stat is 259 for profound tops currently, so something around 250-300 would be slightly better on top of the better stats.
2. Body, boots, bracers and head slot artifact equipment. I know what you may be thinking. ''OMGZ USELESS DIABOLIST IS STILL BETTER DPS,'' or maybe ''I HATE SET BONUS FOR PROFOUND CW ARMOR, IT HAS NO BENEFIT FOR SHIELD USERS, CHANGE PLEASE'' -random angry forum guys.
So what can we do about that? Well, since you can 'unlock' all class features on artifact off hands. Why not add a bunch of different existing and/or new set bonuses to the potential list of effects to be gained from wearing the full artifact gear set? That would allow for SO much customization! Wouldn't it be great to have best in slot equipment and be able to customize what set effects you want it to have? You could run a pvp armor set (by adding tenacity as your stat roll) with the bonus set of your accursed diabolist, or the same but with your high vizier set bonus. Sound like a win/win to me. And as for the sets that give +x of a stat, perhaps allowing players to choose between a couple of options would be great too. I don't think it's a big problem if there is no 2/4 set bonuses and are all rewarded on the full set, since we could customize it greatly with the whole set it wouldnt be necessary IMO, and I think it would make coding it alot simpler (?) too. <- (pro programmer confirmation needed)
How do we incorporate that?
Well to avoid having to unlock the set bonuses on 4 pieces of equipment (that would suck), the top piece would have the customization options for set bonuses and the game checks if you are wearing all 4 pieces of the artifact set, and if you are, then you gain the set bonus granted by the body armor (or something the like I guess that'd be your job devs since I'm no programmer here). Note that each piece would keep it's stat roll thing so if you want regen action points gain and something else for your last piece -- you can.
So there's still artifact rings to be released, these two suggestions could apply to a two ring set too, it would be great IMO
3. As for the stats (im talking about con/dex/str/int on belts etc), each effects and set bonuses on each armor/ring, etc that will come in the next mods, why not let the player choose them? We could split into two categories. Tanky artifact equipment (for base stats) and DPS-y for the second one.
I noticed that devs have incorporated 3 cloaks for each tanky and DPS-y styles. The DPS cloaks have action point gain per second, and the tanky ones have increased AC. This is common to all cloaks. So why not have only one item for tanky base stats, and one for DPS stats, and customize the rest? You could choose your set bonus among the 3 suggested sets (artifact/belt/cloak) for the 3 tanky and 3 dps ones (and switch it later if you want for an AD cost).
So if there was plans for artifact armors/rings (with set bonuses) you could make the set bonus work for either 1 dps + 1 tanky ring, or 2 of each of the same for example and then choose from a couple of set bonuses and/or increased stats depending what you were planning to incorporate within the items, and potentially some stat too for some sweet flavor too. As for armor sets, you could go either way, making it either full tanky or full DPS armor to be elligible for the set bonus, or a mix of them.
As for belts, they all have different stat spreads so each has their own flavor. But if we're to adopt a customization mind set for artifact gear perhaps you could add the possibility of choosing which of the 6 stats the player wants to have on his item (with AD unlocks of course) and the potential of changing it for both the tanky and DPS oriented item.
Implications and consequences of these ideas
There has been alot of frustration with some players who invested alot into legendary items, whilst this is understandable it's part of the game that gear changes and so it's to be expected. But mods come by fast (which is normal) and if players feel their gear might become non optimal in the next mod, they will not invest into it. These suggestions would slightly improve that, since you wouldn't need to change to a new artifact item if you want to use a different at will, or something alike. Which ultimately improves quality of life and allows for different styles to be more easily adopted/changed while still maintaining a good AD sink and Zen buying purpose on the process.
We all know things/abilities change in the game so if a player wants to change his equipment effects from one at-will to the other, it's a much better system to adopt. Besides, there's still encounter powers and daily powers that haven't been touched by artifact equipment, and this system is much friendlier than the main hand system is.
I can tell you from a player's perspective that it's much more tempting to invest in an artifact you know you will keep for a while rather than one you think might need to be changed for something more optimal next mod. My artifact off hand adapts to all playstyles and changes I decide to make on my build, so I will take my off hand to legendary definitly, whereas my main hand and cloak/belt I'm leaving them at epic for now, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks this way. It encourages players to invest in their artifacts more than if they fear they might gimp out and have to change it next mod = more investment into artifact refinement and encourages respecs(Zen) and trying different abilities/switching abilities (AD sink) which I think are all healthy for the game!
So these are my ideas, now it's up to you game developpers and content teams to decide what you like and like not within my suggestions and if yes or no some of them will be implemented for the upcoming module artifact gear.
What do you think? leave your ideas/comments below up for discussion
Thanks for the mighty long read and see you in game.
Artifact main hands vs off hands
The artifact off hand system is far more enjoyable and superior IMO in comparison to the main hand system.
So why you may ask?
Well here's the thing, each main hand weapons have different stats and varied effects depending on what class features (at wills) you are using. So if you are using the Artifact main hand for Hand of Blight for a warlock, you will get the effect for hand of blight and life steal, hp and power stats. You get alot less customization aspect than you do with your off hand. If you decide you'd prefer to use the effect for another at-will you need to.. dump your current weapon completely (or keep and pay another millions of refine points) into your new one and refine it too.
For artifacts off hand however, every of the 10 class feature are incorporated inside the same item and you unlock each for 50k(4 cubes), then you pay 5k to switch between each features. This is a much preferable system, it's much more enjoyable and convenient for players this way. You ALSO get to customize one of it's stats on it (which is something you couldn't do with main hand weapon). And I love the idea of paying cubes to upgrade it with a random stat number up to 400 on it. It's an interesting AD dump for the game.
For those who don't know, the stat system will cost cubes of augmentation which you find on the wondrous bazaar, you pay those to 'roll' a random stat from 1 to 400 on your artifact, and the roll you get is the amount the stat will give you on the artifact. If your new roll is lower than the previous roll you will keep your highest roll so far made on the item.
I know it might be late now, but incorporating this system to existing main hand weapons, and/or next upcoming artifact gears would be great and much more convenient for players.
Suggestions for next artifact gear
So while I was thinking about the roll stat system for artifact gears, I got thinking about the applications we could make of it for the next artifact gears to come in the next mods. Currently we can have among the following stats for artifact gear:
-Action Point Gain
-AoE Resist
-Combat Advantage Bonus
-Companion Influence
-Control Bonus
-Control Resist
-Regeneration
-Stamina/Guard Gain
The first thing that comes to mind is, why not add tenacity?
For hardcore pvp'ers like me, it definitly sounds like an interesting option. (400 maybe too much so perhaps get 1/2 or 1/3rd of the rolled value for tenacity?) Artifact equipment is meant to be best in slot items because of the amount of investment required to get them to legendary levels, and it is, but sadly players have to sacrifice potential tenacity stat (which is pretty important) for PvP. So instead we could get the option of either raising one of the aforementioned stats like regeneration or sacrifice this stat and get tenacity. (Possibly changing between them for an AD cost, another AD sink, more player coveniency!)
More thoughts, even more applications!
1. Incorporating stat rolls to customize a stat on the next artifact equipments (Tenacity, Action Point Gain, AoE Resist, Combat Advantage Bonus, Companion Influence, Control Bonus, Control Resist, Regeneration, Stamina/Guard Gain for example). So if you're a hardened PvP player, or a PvE player, or a little bit of both. Those features will have something for you to gain from.
Tenacity for PvP players, the other stats for the PvE player, and the ability to switch between these stats for the player in between that does both. Sounds like an ideal world for every type of player right there. For example, the tenacity stat is 259 for profound tops currently, so something around 250-300 would be slightly better on top of the better stats.
2. Body, boots, bracers and head slot artifact equipment. I know what you may be thinking. ''OMGZ USELESS DIABOLIST IS STILL BETTER DPS,'' or maybe ''I HATE SET BONUS FOR PROFOUND CW ARMOR, IT HAS NO BENEFIT FOR SHIELD USERS, CHANGE PLEASE'' -random angry forum guys.
So what can we do about that? Well, since you can 'unlock' all class features on artifact off hands. Why not add a bunch of different existing and/or new set bonuses to the potential list of effects to be gained from wearing the full artifact gear set? That would allow for SO much customization! Wouldn't it be great to have best in slot equipment and be able to customize what set effects you want it to have? You could run a pvp armor set (by adding tenacity as your stat roll) with the bonus set of your accursed diabolist, or the same but with your high vizier set bonus. Sound like a win/win to me. And as for the sets that give +x of a stat, perhaps allowing players to choose between a couple of options would be great too. I don't think it's a big problem if there is no 2/4 set bonuses and are all rewarded on the full set, since we could customize it greatly with the whole set it wouldnt be necessary IMO, and I think it would make coding it alot simpler (?) too. <- (pro programmer confirmation needed)
How do we incorporate that?
Well to avoid having to unlock the set bonuses on 4 pieces of equipment (that would suck), the top piece would have the customization options for set bonuses and the game checks if you are wearing all 4 pieces of the artifact set, and if you are, then you gain the set bonus granted by the body armor (or something the like I guess that'd be your job devs since I'm no programmer here). Note that each piece would keep it's stat roll thing so if you want regen action points gain and something else for your last piece -- you can.
So there's still artifact rings to be released, these two suggestions could apply to a two ring set too, it would be great IMO
3. As for the stats (im talking about con/dex/str/int on belts etc), each effects and set bonuses on each armor/ring, etc that will come in the next mods, why not let the player choose them? We could split into two categories. Tanky artifact equipment (for base stats) and DPS-y for the second one.
I noticed that devs have incorporated 3 cloaks for each tanky and DPS-y styles. The DPS cloaks have action point gain per second, and the tanky ones have increased AC. This is common to all cloaks. So why not have only one item for tanky base stats, and one for DPS stats, and customize the rest? You could choose your set bonus among the 3 suggested sets (artifact/belt/cloak) for the 3 tanky and 3 dps ones (and switch it later if you want for an AD cost).
So if there was plans for artifact armors/rings (with set bonuses) you could make the set bonus work for either 1 dps + 1 tanky ring, or 2 of each of the same for example and then choose from a couple of set bonuses and/or increased stats depending what you were planning to incorporate within the items, and potentially some stat too for some sweet flavor too. As for armor sets, you could go either way, making it either full tanky or full DPS armor to be elligible for the set bonus, or a mix of them.
As for belts, they all have different stat spreads so each has their own flavor. But if we're to adopt a customization mind set for artifact gear perhaps you could add the possibility of choosing which of the 6 stats the player wants to have on his item (with AD unlocks of course) and the potential of changing it for both the tanky and DPS oriented item.
Implications and consequences of these ideas
There has been alot of frustration with some players who invested alot into legendary items, whilst this is understandable it's part of the game that gear changes and so it's to be expected. But mods come by fast (which is normal) and if players feel their gear might become non optimal in the next mod, they will not invest into it. These suggestions would slightly improve that, since you wouldn't need to change to a new artifact item if you want to use a different at will, or something alike. Which ultimately improves quality of life and allows for different styles to be more easily adopted/changed while still maintaining a good AD sink and Zen buying purpose on the process.
We all know things/abilities change in the game so if a player wants to change his equipment effects from one at-will to the other, it's a much better system to adopt. Besides, there's still encounter powers and daily powers that haven't been touched by artifact equipment, and this system is much friendlier than the main hand system is
.I can tell you from a player's perspective that it's much more tempting to invest in an artifact you know you will keep for a while rather than one you think might need to be changed for something more optimal next mod. My artifact off hand adapts to all playstyles and changes I decide to make on my build, so I will take my off hand to legendary definitly, whereas my main hand and cloak/belt I'm leaving them at epic for now, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks this way. It encourages players to invest in their artifacts more than if they fear they might gimp out and have to change it next mod = more investment into artifact refinement and encourages respecs(Zen) and trying different abilities/switching abilities (AD sink) which I think are all healthy for the game!
So these are my ideas, now it's up to you game developpers and content teams to decide what you like and like not within my suggestions and if yes or no some of them will be implemented for the upcoming module artifact gear.
What do you think? leave your ideas/comments below up for discussion
Thanks for the mighty long read and see you in game.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Post edited by denvald on
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Comments
Consider that or raising up another artifact item to legendary to change it's effect. Truely it only costs 5k AD to change between feats once unlocked. (50k unlock/5k switch). Also, granted you didn't want to change it's qualities at all, then you don't need to pay any extra. it's only there for those willing to take it.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Experience with Neverwinter so far suggests that any future artifact gear that links to character skills will use another system. The main weapon system will remain as it is.
Sorry, I only really skimmed the first part of your post, it's getting last and I'm tired. Perhaps tomorrow I'll read more thoroughly.
thanks!
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
1. one 20k with four 10-12k grp vs premade or full 20k+ players.(been on both sides, god knows how matchmaking works).
2. both grps made from one 20k+ with four other 10-17k, usually the 20k will take his node and run around trying to help the others...but here is the thing: you are killing something fast and that guy takes your node till you get bk so pretty much you can just stay at that node and look at mid: as a 20k you no longer have any impact, more than ever i am losing games with 20+kills and 2-5 deaths.
3. Unless you are a TR/DC you are there only as fodder if you are under 18k GS, someone can and will kill you extremely fast
4. PVE wise there is no point in gearing up after 16k...
From my point of view the difference created by all this artifact gear is atm so big that makes the game a bad experience for all regardless of GS, even more so for a small guild player...
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
But then I can't sell my rp for more ridiculous prices :c
However I wasn't adressing these things on that topic, needless to say, these things should have something done about them first hand, and then we can consider my suggestions, but there's nothing wrong thinking ahead of time.
I am personally among the more or less new players (4 months play time) and I started playing a few months in the mod 4. I'm of those players who didn't have any resources or knowledge about refinement to have time to get alot of it before they were made BoA. So I find myself like a lot of players, feeling epic achievement for reaching epic rank with an arti equipment, needless to say to me legendary rank feels out of reach right now :P. These are all opiniated and frankly, there's many things I would change, to begin with removing the ICD of dragons hoard, that would obviously motivate players into 'trying' for legendary ranks, as of now most people(including myself) simply give up the idea and sit at epic saying that's enough.
Nevertheless, artifact equip has an awesome concept, the bitterness comes from an underperforming system (refinement) anyways.
Cheers and thanks for reading
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
That's not a bad idea at all, actually
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
But for g's sake, no more artifact equipment, especially Artifact Armor sets!
i don't think they'd change the current system for existing artifacts tbh, but it would neat to see this system implemented for the next artifacts
And also, for those still not convinced about artifact gear being too much investment, you totally don't have to. The new jewelry profession items are superb for that odd alt you play once in a while but don't want to spend 20 million RP on.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Not when I have 7 of them and the jewellery are btc ):
I agree alot of it isnt needed at all for the content we have.
But it is a substantial investment.
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Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
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Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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