Are we the weakest Class?

bakaslam · December 2014

Hello guys,
After Module 5, I noticed that with the changes, the HR is actually one of the most weak classes in the game, when it comes to PVP, at least.
Before module 5, I did decent in PVP, but now here's what I see:

Vs Control Wizard: They are more ranged than us + more controlling + more damage
Vs Guardian Fighter: They always have been our weakest point. An HR vs a GF means defeat for the HR.
Vs Trickster Rougue: After the release of the new module they got balanced with the other classes, but still they are stronger then us in melee.
Vs Devoted Cleric: No much to say, they are just immortal.
Vs Sourge Warlock: I feel like that may be the only class against whom we might have more chances of winning.

I mean.. am I the only one who feel that at the moment HR are really weak if compared with other classes?

mh0ram · December 2014

You're probably not the only one, but I don't think you're in the majority either.

ychiaki · December 2014

I've been playing as a Trapper since mod5, and I'm doing really good in both PvE and PvP. I figure I would be less squishy if I picked Combat but in terms of damage and CC I'm able to handle almost anyone at my gear score bracket and some people that over gear me for a couple of thousands (depends on classes, HRs are better against CWs than GFs). I really don't feel OP but really far from weak. Roots proc very strong DoT's and CC helps against both ranged and melee classes. Only some rogues are somewhat of a big problem so far but that has to do more with our lack of CC breaks and their insane damage.

HR is no longer a broken class, probably best or second best in 1vs1 after TR but get another one with you and the ranger will die unless conditions are really good for him.

aderonz · December 2014

switched to trapper to and been doing good , i think Trapper is the way to go this mod if you want to have fun pvping , combat tree is still great and probably the second best pvp spec after Trs.

kaedennn · December 2014

combat tree is the best spec for pvp , piercing damage is the best talent against tanky classes , plus the survivbility the tree gives thanks to Life Steal +Wild Medicine .

pvp as HR = combat tree !

gabrieldourden · December 2014

@aderonz and ychiaki: what powers/rotations do you use? I´m now PvP'ing for fun with my Trapper but still have to make up my mind about a good rotation especially against CWs. Melee classes are usually not a huge problem if they are not definitely overgeared compared to my toon, but CWs are. Do you use Marauder´s?

bakaslam · December 2014

I see! Well, I recently switched from Archery to Combat.. But honestly I still need to understand where is the power in that build.
I mean, it's true I'm able to survive way more, but still I do less kills than before.
I just wanted to make sure the problem was me and not the class, so thank you for your answers!

rayrdan · December 2014

bakaslam wrote: »

Hello guys,
After Module 5, I noticed that with the changes, the HR is actually one of the most weak classes in the game, when it comes to PVP, at least.
Before module 5, I did decent in PVP, but now here's what I see:

Vs Control Wizard: They are more ranged than us + more controlling + more damage
Vs Guardian Fighter: They always have been our weakest point. An HR vs a GF means defeat for the HR.
Vs Trickster Rougue: After the release of the new module they got balanced with the other classes, but still they are stronger then us in melee.
Vs Devoted Cleric: No much to say, they are just immortal.
Vs Sourge Warlock: I feel like that may be the only class against whom we might have more chances of winning.

I mean.. am I the only one who feel that at the moment HR are really weak if compared with other classes?

we are not the best but we are far from being weak. We are probably the most balanced class right now pvp wise.
i stopped playing combat because the tree seems lacking of damage and you are forced to play Always with the same 3 encounters.
now im trapper, probably sub optimal but way more fun and way more damaging.
the class strongly needs a CC breaker to be very it should be

germmaniac · December 2014

bakaslam wrote: »

Vs Control Wizard: They are more ranged than us + more controlling + more damage
Vs Guardian Fighter: They always have been our weakest point. An HR vs a GF means defeat for the HR.
Vs Trickster Rougue: After the release of the new module they got balanced with the other classes, but still they are stronger then us in melee.
Vs Devoted Cleric: No much to say, they are just immortal.
Vs Sourge Warlock: I feel like that may be the only class against whom we might have more chances of winning.

What? No "Vs GWF"? Don't GWFs count anymore. Are we just gonna ignore them

bakaslam wrote: »

Vs Trickster Rougue: After the release of the new module they got balanced with the other classes, but still they are stronger then us in melee.

is that even a valid complaint. Your name has "Ranger" in it. Wizards having more range may be a concern, but this?
Feel free to mention your build (unless I am missing something)

aderonz · December 2014

kaedennn wrote: »

combat tree is the best spec for pvp , piercing damage is the best talent against tanky classes , plus the survivbility the tree gives thanks to Life Steal +Wild Medicine .

pvp as HR = combat tree !

the build i currently use :
encounters : marauder / binding shot / hindering shot
feats : lone wolf / serpent
at-wills : rapideshot / whatever you want ( if you're pathfinder go for carefull attack )
dailies : disruptive shot / forest ghost
high critical and P.Vorpal are great to because root's damage benefits from both

Marauder along with forest ghost is the core of trapper's PVP style , with the CDR feat you can confuse opponents with insane mobility especialy when you just applied thorned roots , i spent most of mod4 as a combat HR but never had the fun i'm having right now.

noetic2 · December 2014

People have ALREADY voted with their feet. There are FAR fewer HRs now. Since the newest nerf, I'm beginning to see a FEW Trappers in PvP, but their presence is nothing like other classes, or what HRs were before MOD 4. I got trapped for what I believe is the 2nd time yesterday. Or, at least, the 2nd time I've noticed. Little hitch before I was able to get moving again. Compare that to the death in one shot sneak attacks from TRs you get nearly every encounter. The totally indestructible DCs, and the pummeling we've always taken from CWs. Trapper is STILL a non-factor in PvP.

jonkoca · December 2014

It's not that HRs are weaker than they used to be, it's that the other classes still have broken mechanics to exploit, whereas all our broken mechanics got fixed. Lol, nice law abiding rangers.

Gwfs wave their swords over their heads.
Trs stun and 2 shot you.
CWs still have a whole bunch of passives for faceroll goodness.
DCs are immortal.
Gfs are kinda ok, but anvil still kills you twice.
SWs, erm, what are they..? Some kind of pvp companion..?

So. We'll be laughing when the nerf hammers fall, but until then, hmmm. Play a build that's fun.

I'm thinking of becoming an archer again. Just to see those numbers.

piejal · December 2014

For me GWF still fine since you can dodge their attack
GF still fine you can slip behind them
SW just need to strike first
CW with good build and gameplay we are melted fast they still OP
DC leave the immortal search other because they OP
TR no need to say here hope you have 7k GS higher than him

tantivetyrell · December 2014

piejal wrote: »

TR no need to say here hope you have 7k GS higher than him

Tr's fine, if you have thorned roots =]

bittynation · December 2014

I've been playing for 9 months now as an HR archer build and with nerfs we've taken and the buffs of everyother class. The arch builds are in a pretty low state in both PVP and PVE. In PVP all other classes have encouters that crit for well over 10k. Where as archer builds are lucky if they get over 6k-7k. I often get hit with very large crits from TRs, DCs, GWFs, and sometimes GFs and CWs in the 20k-40k range. The only weapon we have that can do this kind of damage is aimed shot and it's impractical to use. To get good damage you need to hit them with an encounter first to apply prey then try and use aimed shot. Your lucky if you can target the same toon as you applied prey to and then for them not to go out of range and also to not get disrupted. In one on one situation impossible. My toon is 19k now and I routinley have 14k-15k TR, CW, SW, and DCs out dps me in PVE with lesser weapon enchantments. I have spent so much time energy and money building this toon and he is a piece of HAMSTER compared to other classes / builds.

HR archer needs some fixing. We are in a pretty low state.

ximae · December 2014

My toon is 19k now and I routinley have 14k-15k TR, CW, SW, and DCs out dps me in PVE with lesser weapon enchantments. I have spent so much time energy and money building this toon and he is a piece of HAMSTER compared to other classes / builds.

HR archer needs some fixing. We are in a pretty low state.

This is not my experience.......

bittynation · December 2014

ximae wrote: »

This is not my experience.......

Ximae - I've seen your build, my is not to far off from yours - I went with the Dex belt in-lieu of the Wis because my actual crit % is 45%-50% which the dex belt should be slightly better. My companions are almost the same except they haven't been upgraded, base level only. I only have 8600k power, likely due to your agument having higher level enchants. I don't see how you couldn't be having the same exp.

mh0ram · December 2014

bittynation wrote: »

Ximae - I've seen your build, my is not to far off from yours - I went with the Dex belt in-lieu of the Wis because my actual crit % is 45%-50% which the dex belt should be slightly better. My companions are almost the same except they haven't been upgraded, base level only. I only have 8600k power, likely due to your agument having higher level enchants. I don't see how you couldn't be having the same exp.

Question # 1: Do you enjoy HR more than the other classes?

If so, no need to read # 2.

Statement # 2: Who cares? If you're playing a character that fits your play style, just enjoy the game. I'm much more concerned about the state of the game than I am about any particular class at the moment. Supposedly there's "Good reason" why they killed T1 and T2 dungeons. I'm waiting to see that.

bittynation · December 2014

I like the HR more than other classes, but I have been very frustrated as of late and I need a change. Don't know what that is yet.

rollingonit · December 2014

bittynation wrote: »

I've been playing for 9 months now as an HR archer build and with nerfs we've taken and the buffs of everyother class. The arch builds are in a pretty low state in both PVP and PVE. In PVP all other classes have encouters that crit for well over 10k. Where as archer builds are lucky if they get over 6k-7k. I often get hit with very large crits from TRs, DCs, GWFs, and sometimes GFs and CWs in the 20k-40k range. The only weapon we have that can do this kind of damage is aimed shot and it's impractical to use. To get good damage you need to hit them with an encounter first to apply prey then try and use aimed shot. Your lucky if you can target the same toon as you applied prey to and then for them not to go out of range and also to not get disrupted. In one on one situation impossible. My toon is 19k now and I routinley have 14k-15k TR, CW, SW, and DCs out dps me in PVE with lesser weapon enchantments. I have spent so much time energy and money building this toon and he is a piece of HAMSTER compared to other classes / builds.

HR archer needs some fixing. We are in a pretty low state.

Is that you Bitty?

Anyways same as Ximae, even as a 16.5 SW Archer, rarely am I outdps'd by anything other than a CW.
Even something weirder, so I did my first Tiamat maybe few days back.... No one invited me to a party qq.... I didnt even hit 1 dragon head.... (think cause I needed to be in a party to get the gems/debuffs or whatever it is people talk about.... And I ended up 6th on the leader board... weird

ychiaki · December 2014

Trapper HR is (according to my own experience) probably the best AoE damage dealer in the game only next to some Fury warlocks thanks to those beautiful DoTs that come from Thorned/Ancient Roots. My 18k HR can even out damage CWs in CN, and my stats aren't amazingly distributed. Also, as I already stated before, it's somewhat competent in PvP especially against CW, DC, SW and other HR since they don't have long CC immunities such as Unstoppable or ITC while obviously not as good as Combat. In eSoT, eLoL, head phase in the Tiamat raid and a lot of boss fights were they don't move a lot, Archery HR deals HUGE single target dps due to very strong RoA, Thorn Ward and Aimed/Rapid Shot. And Combat can shine in PvP without being broken as in past mods, while also doing nice AoE damage in PvE with the right spec. HR is definitely not overpowered but neither it is weak. In fact, it's probably the only class that is balanced, competent and fun at the same time. You're able to choose in which aspect of the game you want your character to shine and build it however you want without overshadowing other classes.

lievcocijo · December 2014

I have an archery build, yet for recent changes Ive gone closer to combat rotations, its not as tough but can handle enough from similar gearscores, and is always fun to see them expect you to charge them again and instead you aimShot their face off, if this helps me, it will certanly help combat HRs

Dailies: disruptiveShot / forestGhost
Atwills: AimedShot/Strike, RapidShot/Strike I even use Electric sometimes if they like to stay close to eachother
Encounters: Marauder's / BoarHide / FoxShift
Utilities: Serpent / LoneWolf

*Get your hitpoints/deflect high enough to be able to survive one enemy rotation against a slightly higher GS, mistakes happen and they could get the jump on you first, you should be able to survive that mistake, stun, and escape to recover

Have your FoxCunning and BoarHide buffs up as much as possible, its best to cast them before and after you rush in and out

Vs CW: Its all about taking the initiative, they get you first, youre probably dead. Tap Disruptive Shot while you approach, Right after it goes off Hit maraudersRush to get into CC and boarCharge to stun them, aimStrike some bleed, foxShift their next attack MaraudersEscape away. Use Disruptive again or shift aaway if theyre coming after you to get out of range again, repeat or Ghost into stealth and snipe them off

Vs Guardian Fighter: Most of them are about takinng nodes, if theyre alone aImShot them two/three times to get their guard down, lure them out of the node and into attacking you, boarCharge, Fox/aimStrike them and maraduersEscape away

Vs TR: Theyre the reason I slotted Boar now; since all their stuns were getting very annoying I decided to play the same game. This buff and foxCunning helps against their high damage strikes, lure them into you and boarCharge the moment you see them, FoxShift for damage and DisruptiveShot them right as theyre getting up. If theyre hitting you with ranged and you have no good idea of their position, do Marauder'sEscape to get out of their range, or forestGhost to find them while YOU are in stealth.
If you notice the want to go with the oneShot move first this works load FoxCunning and just stand there looking around as if you where an easy oneShot, when their attack fails, drop them with BoarCharge; hit, stun, hit, stun, escape, stealth; as explained earlier

Vs DC: Its true, some DCs just seem immortal now, sometimes its best to go take other nodes and make their team separate, kill all their teammates and attack them only if you can out DPS them (use disruptive and charge again to keep them from casting heals) or zerg them with your team. DO NOT go try take a node from a good DC and something else, unless your team is taking other nodes and its up to you to keep them in one place, in this case your Fox, Marauder's and dodges are to keep YOU alive and them wasting time
If youre with your team, asaulting an enemy team with a DC, try staying in the back and unnoticed (Ghost) and aimShot huge chunks of health out of them

Vs Sourge Warlock: Pretty much the same with the CW but easier, rush, drop hit, stun, hit, escape their range

vs GWF: if theire the Tough build, work them as if it was a GF, if theyre the stun/damage type, keep doing hit and run attacks and ranged attacks, foxShift them when they get close and maraudersEscape the other way to keep shooting

jonkoca · December 2014

bittynation wrote: »

I like the HR more than other classes, but I have been very frustrated as of late and I need a change. Do know what that is yet.

Same. 22k HR. 40k+HP, 7.5k power, 60%DR 40% deflect. Combat spec. Red glyph BI/profound combo. Orange everything. GPF. Rank 9s/8s. Experienced player of 12 months or so.

Doesn't make a difference in high end pvp. Dead in seconds. Struggles to kill anything much reliably. Our damage and healing takes time we no longer have to stack to useful levels. The PB nerf has killed us. Lack of useful cc, and cc breakers helped.

Tried archer, even worse, will spec to trapper, expecting same.

We'll bounce back sure, but right now... Not good.

rollingonit · December 2014

Oh if this is about PVP topic ignore all I said earlier.

avengingangel93 · December 2014

mh0ram wrote: »

Question # 1: Do you enjoy HR more than the other classes?

If so, no need to read # 2.

Statement # 2: Who cares? If you're playing a character that fits your play style, just enjoy the game. I'm much more concerned about the state of the game than I am about any particular class at the moment. Supposedly there's "Good reason" why they killed T1 and T2 dungeons. I'm waiting to see that.

Exactly my belief. If the class suits you, no worries, be happy

I never really had any issues with archery spec, and I've been one since the HR came out back in Mod 2. Granted, I can't always outdps some people. But that's always going to be the case, since everyone plays differently, with different classes. There are a huge amount of ways to play your HR, and that's just one class.

grac3n77 · December 2014

bakaslam wrote: »

Hello guys,
After Module 5, I noticed that with the changes, the HR is actually one of the most weak classes in the game, when it comes to PVP, at least.
Before module 5, I did decent in PVP, but now here's what I see:

Vs Control Wizard: They are more ranged than us + more controlling + more damage
Vs Guardian Fighter: They always have been our weakest point. An HR vs a GF means defeat for the HR.
Vs Trickster Rougue: After the release of the new module they got balanced with the other classes, but still they are stronger then us in melee.
Vs Devoted Cleric: No much to say, they are just immortal.
Vs Sourge Warlock: I feel like that may be the only class against whom we might have more chances of winning.

I mean.. am I the only one who feel that at the moment HR are really weak if compared with other classes?

I have fought an HR today and I want to know what skill they do its like hitting you 6 times in 1 second and if your still alive they will CC you to death.. Surely that is a trapper don't you think? HR are still the most versatile class can put a good fight to any class and dominate.

rayrdan · December 2014

Six times in a second??? Nah it was multiprocs of red glyphs piercing damage and carefull attack... combat

ghoulz66 · December 2014

rayrdan wrote: »

Six times in a second??? Nah it was multiprocs of red glyphs piercing damage and carefull attack... combat

What's more annoying than permas, are HRs that can just run away from you to kill you....

Never going back.

definemyth · December 2014

lol Hrs arent weak. Check out my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDlxYnolPJc
Its level 50 bracket, dunno how it is at level 60.

bjanu · December 2014

I think combat hrs are still pretty though and best for pvp, but in my opinion this will soon change to mainly trappers. I myself play archer and i loved pvp in module 4, before the perma cc wizards. Currently we - Archery hr are very low in the food chain. Thats probably due to the fact that there is no signature of archers yet - in my optinion this should focus on long range and sniping, however the CW are still dominant in that field - both longer range and more dmg. A change in aimed strike may work that out in our favor. Currently the biggest problem is tr as they are natural counters to this build, their abundance is too high due to them being broken right now which puts us in as bad situation as it gets.

noetic2 · December 2014

Trappers are pretty useful in Tiamat. Rooting monsters to the spot where they spawn. (Don't think I've ever seen anybody do this but me.) Still, despite my good work, I ALWAYS finish in the bottom half of scorers. The lag is particularly difficult to cope with for HRs. Timing switches from ranged to melee. When lagged, which is nearly a quarter of the time, I won't know what is up on my tool bar. I suppose in PvE if you were to hit every encounter as it comes up that a Trapper could do as much damage as other classes, but the difficulty factor is so much greater. In PvP, I do OK, but not any better than would be expected of any other class at my GS. Believe that I was better than average before the MOD 4 nerf. I've no complaints about the damage I do. (Though I never score very high in dungeons and skirmishes.) The problem in PvP is that trappers DON'T trap. I've yet to ever be more than slightly inconvenienced by any other Trapper. And if there is no problem with HRs as a class, where have they all gone to? They were once very nearly the most popular class. Now, if they are not the least popular, very near the bottom of classes people are choosing to play. (Maybe with some competition from GFs and SWs.)

Are we the weakest Class?

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