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kweassa
Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
Interesting results so far, but in general the 'balancing' has some issues which need to be addressed.
1. For one thing, generally it feels a bit too severe in that the "stealth depletion upon use of at-wills from stealth" was in the first place the very first attempt to suppress "attacks from nowhere which is impossible to retaliate against". Issuing a second mechanic that reveals TRs from stealth upon being hit, essentially made the current mechanics a "double nerf".
2. It is very awkward and unstable, but the original vision of the devs whom described the intent behind the changes as "essentially a TR forcing a 1vs1 upon individual, single opponents in the midst of enemy groups" can more or less be followed if the player intends to do exactly that.
3. However, due to a variety of reasons this quickly becomes impossible or improbable and the attempt turns sour in that the at-will stealth depletion mechanics imposed upon the stealth reveal mechanic at the SAME TIME, as well as the stealth reveal mechanic while at melee range also in works, it's not only a double nerf. It becomes a TRIPLE nerf.
4. Specifically, the at-will stealth depletion essentially allows too small a window of opportunity for the above said, forcibly imposed 1vs1 situation to work. One quickly realizes that even if he targets only ONE opponent amongst a chaotic battle, the opponent whom the "forced 1vs1" is imposed upon, simply needs only survive on average 5~6 seconds, and then soon stealth is depleted. Typically many AoE attacks thrown around the battlefield all contribute to TR stealth ending prematurely, and as a result the "forced 1vs1" simply goes sour, and quickly turns into "gangbang against the TR", in which case the TR is now defenseless against. He cannot distribute his CCs or any other type of utilities against different targets because it simply makes him visible to more people at hand.
5. The end-result of these realities, seems to suggest, and ACTUALLY JUSTIFY, the ONE-SHOT builds now -- because logically, this is now the only way a TR can operate with some expectations of killing his targets and contributing to the fight, because any other form of fight which involves multiple enemies hellbent on finding the TR, simply becomes a suicide run. I do not think is wrong, or abnormal, to expect a single TR fighting multiple enemies to be difficult. But with the current changes, it's not just 'difficult'. It's simply suicide. Especially when classes that deal ranged CCs, or multiple persistent DoTs are involved.
Thus, if these line of changes will persist, my suggestion is as follows:
Combat testings have shown to me, as I have promised, that sucky whiney people are still manageable if a 1vs1 is guaranteed. But this now only applies to Scoundrels, and any other build/paths are not just 'nerfed', it is really 'dead'. Currently, the TR efficiency of combat can probably be redesignated as being a "support" class now, in every meaning of the word.
These changes may yet work, but further tweaking is definately required. If there's anything positive about these changes, is that it does allow the opponent to fight back, and that makes operating as a TR a very hazardous thing which requires a lot of tactful thinking, quick improvision and plain reflexes. It makes you have to think about a lot of things in a very short time span, which is encouraging for better PvP experience. The unfortunate part is that these changes don't just allow a "fight-back", it essentially makes facing TRs simply a matter of noticing a mosquito flying around, and then simply turning around to swat it out of the air.
Balance the two aspects and I think there's a chance that it still might work.
1. For one thing, generally it feels a bit too severe in that the "stealth depletion upon use of at-wills from stealth" was in the first place the very first attempt to suppress "attacks from nowhere which is impossible to retaliate against". Issuing a second mechanic that reveals TRs from stealth upon being hit, essentially made the current mechanics a "double nerf".
2. It is very awkward and unstable, but the original vision of the devs whom described the intent behind the changes as "essentially a TR forcing a 1vs1 upon individual, single opponents in the midst of enemy groups" can more or less be followed if the player intends to do exactly that.
3. However, due to a variety of reasons this quickly becomes impossible or improbable and the attempt turns sour in that the at-will stealth depletion mechanics imposed upon the stealth reveal mechanic at the SAME TIME, as well as the stealth reveal mechanic while at melee range also in works, it's not only a double nerf. It becomes a TRIPLE nerf.
4. Specifically, the at-will stealth depletion essentially allows too small a window of opportunity for the above said, forcibly imposed 1vs1 situation to work. One quickly realizes that even if he targets only ONE opponent amongst a chaotic battle, the opponent whom the "forced 1vs1" is imposed upon, simply needs only survive on average 5~6 seconds, and then soon stealth is depleted. Typically many AoE attacks thrown around the battlefield all contribute to TR stealth ending prematurely, and as a result the "forced 1vs1" simply goes sour, and quickly turns into "gangbang against the TR", in which case the TR is now defenseless against. He cannot distribute his CCs or any other type of utilities against different targets because it simply makes him visible to more people at hand.
5. The end-result of these realities, seems to suggest, and ACTUALLY JUSTIFY, the ONE-SHOT builds now -- because logically, this is now the only way a TR can operate with some expectations of killing his targets and contributing to the fight, because any other form of fight which involves multiple enemies hellbent on finding the TR, simply becomes a suicide run. I do not think is wrong, or abnormal, to expect a single TR fighting multiple enemies to be difficult. But with the current changes, it's not just 'difficult'. It's simply suicide. Especially when classes that deal ranged CCs, or multiple persistent DoTs are involved.
Thus, if these line of changes will persist, my suggestion is as follows:
-
Remove the at-will stealth depletion
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Remove the melee-range stealth reveal
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TRs need a DoT-dropper
-
Dazes need to be changed to stuns - the melee-unfriendly nature of NW means dazed targets simply tend to make a run for it, which extends the time and effort required to adequately suppress/neutralize an opponent whom the TR has chosen to be 'forced into 1vs1 situation'. When you have someone running around with a halo on top of his head, every enemy in the vicinity reacts. Prior to these changes this was less of a problem, but with the stealth reveal the TR is essentially prohibited from affecting any other opponents in the vicinity. In this case the effects of any dazes, or any other type of CCs the TRs deal for that matter, are simply made null&void
Combat testings have shown to me, as I have promised, that sucky whiney people are still manageable if a 1vs1 is guaranteed. But this now only applies to Scoundrels, and any other build/paths are not just 'nerfed', it is really 'dead'. Currently, the TR efficiency of combat can probably be redesignated as being a "support" class now, in every meaning of the word.
These changes may yet work, but further tweaking is definately required. If there's anything positive about these changes, is that it does allow the opponent to fight back, and that makes operating as a TR a very hazardous thing which requires a lot of tactful thinking, quick improvision and plain reflexes. It makes you have to think about a lot of things in a very short time span, which is encouraging for better PvP experience. The unfortunate part is that these changes don't just allow a "fight-back", it essentially makes facing TRs simply a matter of noticing a mosquito flying around, and then simply turning around to swat it out of the air.
Balance the two aspects and I think there's a chance that it still might work.
Stop making excuses. Be a man.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Post edited by kweassa on
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It is all good. I will respec and dump everything into STR get all rank 10 rads in offensive slots and just start becoming a one hit wonder giving everyone a middle finger for each killing blow. Why? Because I can.
Yeah, you get revealed. Okay. We have 3, some have 4, dodges able to be used one after another.
Second, not having the at-will depletion of stealth would make TRs ridiculous. Like, RIDICULOUS. Can you imagine someone being able to get a full 10-stack bleed for DF before he gets out of stealth? That could even take down a full-tank GF because of stealth feats alone.
It's a small step-back, but it's not game-changing.
Stepping into the middle of a fight anyway is not what TRs do. That's what the front-line does.
We target the squishies in the back with no defenses, not the cluster of people on a node. Expecting to casually walk-up, blow up a whole team and then stealthily get away is nothing short of unreasonable.
EDIT: Also, ITC is an interesting form of DoT suppression. It doesn't remove it, but being able to deflect a large amount of damage over time is almost as good for being such a handy skill. I use it to thwart the pesky warlocks and their various DoT shenanigans.
Relying on bugs and exploits will get you only so far.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Arpen, daze and dodge roll or deflc sev still need to be nerf
Up the cooldown of stun Encounter TR at least +5s
make SO become stack debuff every time they do crit +5% reist ignore max stack 25% this debuff last 5s
Change +25% deflec sev with +25% DR so no control resist and can be counter with arpen
Cut the animation dodge roll or limit it become 2 roll with full stamina
People are saying this in anger but I really think it is how things will go. A class that has at least decent stealth, a solid dodge mechanic, is lightning quick, relies on super fast movement and surprise, ungodly damage, is all out attack attack attack...reminds me of the once great HR combat/archery hybrid build and playstyle. Glad its coming back even if in the form of TR...I am on that train, hell ya.
PVE scoundrel right here. I'm not part of your we
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
that's what we had in mod 4 and that made us one of the slowest classes, while we should be one of the quickest and better at evading, so leave that alone.
Other things do need to be toned down, mainly damage in PVP.
I kind of find most of the remarks quite funny - playing a WK SAB, now you pretty much have to pick a single target and either all out attack, or hit and run.
It's also funny to hear non TR players complaining in PVP matches because TR's are not now capping nodes for them - playing more amidst the crowd as a support role. I had three players flatly refuse to play because their two TR's were not prepare to go alone to bases to get killed time after time - had plenty of games in the last two days which just ended up with sitting by the fire by one side or the other.
Does it feel more balanced? It's ok, but start taking away the TR's damage or rolls - and quite frankly I will start turning up for AD and be one of those sitting around the firing not moving.
The hardest part is knowing who can and cannot see you - I have been killed (one shot/one rotation whatever) by CW from distance before I have attacked anyone. How they see me? Another TR must have attacked them I guess
As for the comment about great SABS being really deadly I guess this really depends upon build - I can see some with mobility (IE MI's) having a chance. But WK SAB's, be real - they have just been hit the hardest again - so no real change there then
And the most funny thing really is yes - the PVP player TR's are being pushed into either a one shot build, or a SCO - hurray!!!
Quick frankly I am getting sick to the back teeth with it all - you get a load changes that you never asked for, then you get repeatedly changed and reduced - and that's not mentioning the continued bad manners, rudeness, and never ending whines and requests for even more reductions.
Point - changes did not even hit the live systems, so no one could have tested fully, and no one could have tested in a live environment - and posts were already being made about reducing the TR's even further. Apparently all TR's should have their damage completely reduced because their a DC artefact that can cut down the time of daily's making SE whatever OP- how fair
So Yeah to people like PIE - just carry on and on - and end up playing the game on your own, you could happily win every time then
This probably is sounding like sour grapes - but no, as it is in live now fine. Add anymore reductions without compensation and basically just give us back the old mnod4 TR please - at least they were fun and took a degree of accuracy in getting the rotations right
Have fun all
I still think two further changes have to be done:
First strike has to be totally reworked in something for cooldown reduction, more reliable more about utility less about cheese.
Shocking needs to have damage nerf reverted but must respet tenacity
This. Others character classes should stop placing such a high insurmountable expectations that having a TR on your team would mean automatic victory since they were apparently all built to cap nodes.
I have a mixed play style of support and offense and I really do all I can to help my randomly put-together PvP team to win, dropping Smoke Bombs here and there where needed, Lashing Blade the squishy CWs and other TRs, etc. I rely on Stuns and Dazes to borrow enough time for the CWs / GFs / GWFs on my team for their Encounters to come off cooldowns and help finish the job.
I can cap the enemies' home node by myself and even deal with 1 or 2 enemy players easily but don't expect me to be able to keep doing that the entire match where the respawned enemies start coming and ganging up after me. I'd just like it if once my teammates clear our home and middle nodes to go and help the poor TR that's being ganged up on node 3 instead of standing around waiting in the middle node or chasing other enemy players all over the place.
This is the only choice for us now. Before the nerf I was an executioner then I do PVP got my arrse kick in a flash then I respect sab and I kill one and then killed in a flash. respect again to scoundrell Kill a few and survive although you have to rely on your team cause my role now is a support type sacrifice my ITC and raven artifact to ogma so that I could have a full 3 skill rotation. And now I have adjusted our current status in pvp most of us I think, Now they want to nerf scoudrel. They will never stop until TR nerf in the ground and have a damage equal to a poking stick.
You can get a 10-stack DF bleed outside of stealth.
In fact, in DF range, you were visible anyway. This latest change doesn't affect that.
In fact, it affects every and all ranged attacks. Did you plan on Shadow Striking to regenerate stealth? Did you plan to DS someone? Did you plan to do any kind of damage whatsoever from outside of 5' range? Now you're visible. The odds of some CW scooping you up has increased exponentially.
That is, unless you plan to attack once and spam dodge for 2 seconds, wait for your stamina to refill, then attack again. In which case, Mod 4 TR was infinitely more useful than you.
That's the problem.
People complained about a single aspect of the new TR and they nerfed a nearly 3 year old aspect of TR. The logic here escapes me. Probably because there was no logic involved. Actually, going off the own Cryptic's staff words, they never intended to nerf the damage. This is a pretty good excuse for forced meta shifting. Which doesn't benefit anyone except Cryptic. People whined about the damage, Cryptic hears these tears and doesn't want to do anything about it, so they instate a nerf to TR's main and only source of survivability. ITC isn't available to everyone. This hit WK the hardest.
Even still, as a Sab WK since the start of Mod 5, all this means if that your victory screen will show a few more deaths. Which means more and more nerfs are coming to TR which will obviously hit WK the hardest.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
I replaced VP with lashing and now people are crying hacks. Cause they get one shotted. That is not the roll I wanted to play on my WK. I have an executioner for that. I wanted to be the annoying bugger. Yet they would not let the class alone so this is what I have.
DH is in a sad state. You do not even have to be in stealth and hit someone in it and they get the see you where ever you go buff. for the FULLLL length of DH not 2 seconds like everyone is saying.
With certain people stealth is 100 percent broken for some odd reason. I had a melee hunter ranger that was horrible but would still run too me no matter where I was on the map and try and rush me when I was in stealth. He would die wash rinse repeat. Without me ever attacking me he knew exactly where I was. I got 20 Killing blows thanks to him. I do not think it was a bot either cause no matter where I was on the map he would come to me and me alone. They won because we only had three members by 50 points. The whole team was just crazy bad. We only had one person to a node. You would think they would fix THAT bug where people Disconnect at start of match on purpose leaving a team lopsided instead of HAMSTER up things that are not broken to begin with.
wow this guy really knows how to ask for stupid things! seriously why dont you ask devs to make your favorite toon a god class instead of asking unnecessary nerfs on rogues? Kindly post your in-game-name of all your toons here I might have the chance to drop something nice on your head while your in dominion
This guy is a total joke !
I`m just curious as to what character class he plays as in the game, lol. Maybe a ranged like CW/HR?
He's a HR. A sucky one, at that.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'