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My thoughts on Rogue:

thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
edited November 2014 in The Thieves' Den
Now, bear in mind, TR is not my main, it is one of my alts. However, out of my alts it is the one I spend the most time on as I enjoy the manner in which TR combat occurs, the fast hit and roll nature of it and the fact that the class is dynamic, not one that stand still and bashes. (or casts) That being said, that immediately means that I am not one of the elite tr players, however, unlike the vocal majority, I am a pure PVE player and don't dabble in the PVP environment. So, now that you have had that forewarning, let us dive into what I think of the class as is:

The rogue is a fast paced class that is highly dynamic and this shows through in its combat, it being one of the most (if not the most) mobile classes, almost never standing still in combat. Due to this, in PVE it is one of the classes that can be the hardest for monsters to kill, with its now high number of rolls and ability to dodge those pesky missiles which trouble other classes. However, the rogue fails hugely in one particular manner, that being its damage. The fundamental flaw with the rogue class is its damage, whereby it is designed as a single target heavy hitter, only it will never be able to fulfill its role. This is because in PVE, the only targets that would be more efficiently killed by a single target heavy hitter then a mage are all targets with massively high HP caps, HP caps which are much higher then the damage output of the rogue. If neverwinter was a purely PVE based game this wouldn't be a problem, you could just buff the rogues damage till it made an impact which made it efficient in PVE for boss clearing and then it would be fine. However, neverwinter is not a PVE game only, it has a PVP environment, which is something we must always take into consideration and if you were to buff a rogues damage to the point where it was efficient for boss clearing, it would then be far too powerful in the PVE environment, as its damage would then far exceed any other class for single target attacks.

This brings about the question of how to balance the class, so it adequately fulfills its role as a heavy single target hitter whilst maintaining a level of balance in PVP, as simply buffing its damage will simply not do the trick. Neither can you consider lowering the HP of bosses, as then the TR isn't necessary as then classes like the wizard will still be more efficient for the boss fights. In order to balance the rogue, Cryptic will have to be creative. My suggestion is this, instead of increasing the rogues damage, try to do something like give the rogue a different formula for calculating armour penetration to other classes, such that it has a soft cap that is much higher, closer to between 50-75%. Then, in conjunction, give bosses a much higher damage resistance, which the rogues high armour penetration can mitigate, making its damage relative to other classes in PVE against bosses significantly higher. This maintains the balance between PVP an PVE (I think, correct me if I am wrong) whilst giving the rogue a place in PVE combat. This works as although the rogue still hits for the same amount of damage as well as the other classes, much less of the other classes damage gets through then the rogues, making the rogues damage more valuable.

Now...my final thoughts, these all go to stealth. Firstly, I feel that there are some benefits in stealth that should not be there, but that should rather be permanent benefits that are lost when stealth is active. What I am referring to specifically is all movement speed related benefits. A rogue is supposed to be an agile class, however, in what world does common sense dictate that someone who is hiding and remaining stealthed is running faster then a horse? I feel that all movement speed related buffs that are given during stealth should be given when unstealthed, and that you should receive a penalty to movement speed during the period you are stealthed. I know that this is not a popular idea, however, realistically, it makes sense. However, at the same time, I feel that stealth should last longer and should be harder to detect, but it should end much faster once the rogue initiates combat. To that end, perma stealth should be removed, completely and utterly. Whilst you should be able to stealth for longer at a single go, perma stealthing should never be possible. Anything that makes it possible should be altered to prevent this for one specific reason. The reason it should be removed is not because, "oh no perma stealth is op nerf, nerf, nerf," it is because it promotes uninteractive gameplay which detracts from the fun of the game. By uninteractive gameplay, I mean that perma tr is like playing solitaire, where there is only one player, the tr themselves. Specifically in PVE, this can be observed, where a perma tr can sit around eating a sandwich whilst spamming gloaming on one hand then occasionally activating shadow strike. This type of gameplay is bad for the game and shouldn't be possible, the game should at all times be able to respond to the player and perma stealth prevents this.

Thank you to all of those who read through this wall of text, now let the OP bashing commence :D (I know you PVP players are aching for it :))
Post edited by thefabricant on

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    brilliantcomradebrilliantcomrade Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 45
    edited November 2014
    I skimmed over it and I think I got the key ideas, I like your idea with the armor pen but I think there is an easier approach, a class power (so not a class feature that you have to slot) that gives TRs say 20% more damage to bosses but also give it to HRs because they certainly need it. Also another idea of mine is that when behind a target you deal 50% more damage(on top of CA), this would only ever be useful against tanky targets or bosses but the limitation here is that it wouldn't work with some bosses as some don't face a direction (Dread Vault boss for example) (He might be the only one i'm not really sure).

    The devs could also take the easy route by giving making all single target spells deal 50% less damage to players then buffing those spells for PvE

    With all this in mind however TR just changed completely and is quite viable in PvE (Especially CN) so I doubt we will change again within the next year.
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    k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    The devs could also take the easy route by giving making all single target spells deal 50% less damage to players then buffing those spells for PvE

    :rolleyes:

    *moan *moan My main should'nt be beaten by TR it should be second to my main ah ah ah ah ah ahhhhh.....
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