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flambridge
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 191 Arc User
Guys, you are not worrying too MUCH about "toon" and "GS"? You are so worried about these things who forgot the primary in game, history.
When playing D&D, you have to pay attention to the environment, structure, and mostly the history.
This game is not Legue of Legends, this game is not Battlefield, this game is not Street Fighter. This game is Dungeons and Dragons, and should behave as such.
Do you really think that "getting a legendary artifact in Faerum" is something easy?
On Gond I complained that, during the crisis of prices I complained that, this is the problem. LEGENDARY things are by definition LEGENDARY. They are not for everyone. Likewise "should not be a player able to pay 14mil AD on a horse," also "should not be a player with three or more legendary artifacts", just because something is LEGENDARY (they are legends, myths, rumors, something in the mist of time). The Gond event was horrible just because the devs stumbled and guided it to "legendary crafters", this is wrong.
Elminster is legendary, Drizzt Do'Urden is legendary, and I believe there are "toons without history" more powerful than these guys in this game. Player is free to massify how much cash want to become legendary, or use exploit want, or trck and way want, but "galaxy d***" is not and never will be the focus of this game. Those guys is legendary "become a legend", did something so unbelievable that "BECAME HISTORY" and not because "he has a powerful artifact that he bought from a tramp". But if he bought the artifact, can't complain "all are weak around him", because he "has an incredible power in his hands". You are so worried about equips, that not see the story unfolding aroud, that's sad. I hope too Tiamat kick in most. But if he no does, some enemy REALLY LEGENDARY going to do. XD
(The max GS in game actually is 15.000, and one or two Epic Artefacts. Is an Epic Hero, and able to beat any enemy. Not even the Powers allow GS greater this. )
For those with trouble to understand the goal of the game, I strongly recommend watch .Hack// and Log Horizon animes. And also read the Dungeons and Dragons books.
This thread was a response to thread "People are quitting games in mass numbers ...", but also it is a general message to all players and devs. We have real and more serious problems in the game, than "overgear that should not exist".
When playing D&D, you have to pay attention to the environment, structure, and mostly the history.
This game is not Legue of Legends, this game is not Battlefield, this game is not Street Fighter. This game is Dungeons and Dragons, and should behave as such.
Do you really think that "getting a legendary artifact in Faerum" is something easy?
On Gond I complained that, during the crisis of prices I complained that, this is the problem. LEGENDARY things are by definition LEGENDARY. They are not for everyone. Likewise "should not be a player able to pay 14mil AD on a horse," also "should not be a player with three or more legendary artifacts", just because something is LEGENDARY (they are legends, myths, rumors, something in the mist of time). The Gond event was horrible just because the devs stumbled and guided it to "legendary crafters", this is wrong.
Elminster is legendary, Drizzt Do'Urden is legendary, and I believe there are "toons without history" more powerful than these guys in this game. Player is free to massify how much cash want to become legendary, or use exploit want, or trck and way want, but "galaxy d***" is not and never will be the focus of this game. Those guys is legendary "become a legend", did something so unbelievable that "BECAME HISTORY" and not because "he has a powerful artifact that he bought from a tramp". But if he bought the artifact, can't complain "all are weak around him", because he "has an incredible power in his hands". You are so worried about equips, that not see the story unfolding aroud, that's sad. I hope too Tiamat kick in most. But if he no does, some enemy REALLY LEGENDARY going to do. XD
(The max GS in game actually is 15.000, and one or two Epic Artefacts. Is an Epic Hero, and able to beat any enemy. Not even the Powers allow GS greater this. )
For those with trouble to understand the goal of the game, I strongly recommend watch .Hack// and Log Horizon animes. And also read the Dungeons and Dragons books.
This thread was a response to thread "People are quitting games in mass numbers ...", but also it is a general message to all players and devs. We have real and more serious problems in the game, than "overgear that should not exist".
Post edited by flambridge on
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This! Oh, I do so strongly echo this. I've come across maybe a handful of players who are familiar with FR lore. It doesn't take much - just pick up some Salvatore or Greenwood books from your local library and start reading. Better yet, gather a group of friends, buy the PHB and some dice, and start rolling.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
In a normal D&D game or story you usually do not kill like half a dozen dragons per day while riding on mystical mounts and get followed by some (in lore) really powerful entities. In Neverwinter you do, because it is possible withhout any problem. This is the reason why this game got zero D&D-Atmosphere.
And because it got zero D&D-Atmosphere: Who cares if everyone runs around with "Legendarys". In this game this term got no meaning, after all.
If you want an online-game which got at least a little D&D-atmosphere i would recommend D&D Online. It does a ways better job at this, because it is not just an licence-work like Neverwinter is. Though, it is not automatically a better game because of this. Depends on your priorities.
Or, if he is legendary, the legendaryness of Drizzt has due to the passing of time somehow watered down.
In this game the definition of "rare", "epic" and "legendary" are a bit odd.
a rare (blue) mark of power costs 60k AD.
a epic (purple) mark of power costs 4k AD, 7% of the price of a "rare" stone!
If there was only one legendary weapon, and I know you have it, what would be my motivation to keep trying to get it?
Frankly casual player got no issue with this, they just play the game and enjoy the content while passing their time. They do PVE and PVP not to be the best but just for the fun of it and they care less about winning or owning in PVP. They laugh when they die in pvp because its funny.
To be honest, the quests are so bad written, i do not blame anyone for not reading it.
I usually enjoy reading background lore (I was scaning Shadowrun Lore for weeks after playing Shadowrun Returns and Dragonfall, because both let me craving for more), but Neverwinter does not have much of it ingame, nor is it enjoyable written.
Even the original Neverwinter Nights games let me buy a few D&D-books, because it seemed like an interesting world. Neverwinter does not do that.
I could now mention another MMO, where the player actually needs to read and understand a lot of quests in order to advance. But i think it might start looking a bit too much like an advertiser for other games and this is not, what i actually want.
By the way, the "Dragon-Rage-Triology" got probaly the highest Dragon-Body-Count of any D&D-Lore-Story. Neverwinter surpasses that by far. Per character. Neverwinter is basically a game about genocides. Aks about atmosphere again.
I'm a pve'er yet recognise the flaws.
ToD has been:
3 weeks to unlock the ability to unlock the dungeon/skirmish
<x> amount of time to unlock the dungeon/skirmish and first 3 boons
5 weeks of farming 5 zones a day of the same repetitive simple content to unlock the last 2 boons
1 week of rewarding dungeon time until it's pretty much stale
The dungeon being unchallenging yet our gs is continuing to increase with artifact equipment (4 pieces (2 from mod 5) would cost over 2 grand to get to legendary using the bazaar/zen store, yet cn still gives you more per run than a LoL run even if it gives you outdated gear. Frankly the game is boring to play and all of the other modules are pretty similar, though 2 of them were less grindy (unless you want black ice gear). To keep my interest all they needed to do was make dungeons worth repeating. I'd rather do that than boring simple, unrewarding single player dailies.
There were times when you started as a little more than a commoner, and you worked for years to achieve fame and glory (UO and SWG come to my mind). But these were ancient times. Nowadays you are a "hero" as soon as you finish the tutorial (and NW is not alone on that path).
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules?x=dnd/basicrules
You can download the 5e rules for free in the link above. The Basic Rules are 100% free, and give you the human, dwarf, elf, and halfling races (and subraces), as well as the fighter, the rogue, the cleric, and the wizard. The DM also gets enough monsters to run a campaign from level 1 to 20, though most will purchase the Player's Handbook and the Monster Manual (and the Dungeon Master's Guide which will be released this December).
If you're looking for places to play online, here's a list of good online roleplaying sites (all four have their own dice rolling function):
http://roll20.net/ - The best online virtual tabletop. It's a browser-based app with integrated voice chat and multiplatform support (you don't all have to use Windows to use it). I used to play D&D through Roll20 but had to stop and move to play-by-post due to scheduling conflicts.
http://rpol.net/ - A simple, minimalist play-by-post website. No ads whatsoever; it's supported entirely by donations, which aren't mandatory.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/ - Started out as a website for character sheet sharing, but has since grown into a successful play-by-post site in its own right.
http://www.giantitp.com/ - Home to the Order of the Stick webcomic, it has an active and vibrant play-by-post community.
Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...
It's like seeing a movie based in a book. You're not seeing the story of the book, you're seeing the story of the movie based in a book.
When you reach level 60 you are an "epic hero", epic heroes have legends told of them and their deeds accomplished with weapons, cloaks and rings;)
I count that Frodo Baggins had at least 4 legendary items.
I bet, amongst halflings that "Sam's frying Pan" is a legendary item. He also received and used some some legendaries from the Elf Queen.
Last time I played D&D pen and paper was 20+ years ago. Even first edition set had rules for Immortal players, or those who had "transcended" levels. These player characters were immensely powerful compared to what we have in this game.
When you talk about Books written about Drizzt and Elminster you should realize that as a player, those levels of power have always been available in the pen and paper game. I haven't read any of the books in almost as long as it has been since I played the PnP game, but I can almost bet that Drizz't and Elminster are based on character classes and powers that were available in the pnp game at the time.
TL;DR
OP is wrong, the whole point of playing PnP D&D has always been to get legendary items/artifacts/characters.
Flambridge was a terror, it was (for short time) one of the four most powerful Wizard in my town, he faced five or six dragons alone without any problem. For being a Fire Wizard extremely powerful, even than, Aribeth fell for him.
But this in the past, before the Spellplague happen (respectively 3.5 and Neverwinter Nights ).
No need to rush, this is my point.
No need to run to 18k when there are not enemies in the game able to endure the fight. At some point it will happen, and when happen the rushed will suffer.
(At the moment, the maximum a player can get PVP is "Full Black Ice gear + Ion Stone epic + Artifact Weapon Legendary or Black Ice Weapons", since it really up all important status for pvp, but this leaves the character with the max 16k GS , depending on the booms 17k.)
None D&D games is about GS, it's about history.
Neverwinter is "D&D 4th", say "D&D basic edition" (like Neverwinter Nights), and we will discuss ways to make the game "more D&D" and not "more LoL".
The game has problems yes, but "overgear" no is problem.
Running works for Tibia, Ultima, or even WoW (when played wrong). But playing something D&D thus, just behind tedium and irritation.
I'm not saying "stop evolution", I'm just saying "don't hurry and enjoy the journey."
Whilst new gear is nice, you shouldn't let your gaming experience be defined by grinding it.
Done, and attempted and managed to solo the first 3 bosses (of which you need very high gear to do) but not draco which was too much. I was fine with the grind until they removed the ability to really progress from it, that's why I earn AD via other methods. Each module they realise the focus is gated it with repetitive dailies that people don't like so there's really no real extra content which is the real issue. So I've made most of my goals, beaten all of the content, doesn't change the fact that theirs nothing to really do that IS their fault. I did many hundreds of CN runs and enjoyed it. Add up my mc/vt/LoL runs and it probably doesn't even add up to a tenth of that. Pretending that isn't a problem does nothing.
In neverwinter, your companions are stats, they have no backgrounds or even companion quests. The questline... well it just jumps all over the place. You quickly complete a zone, and that's the end of that group of enemies.
Now mix that in with the fact this game has multiple classes to be played. You only get the storyline out of it once, because it's uber linear. So you basically are repeating the exact same thing, over and over, and the only new thing left is gear. So the focus becomes gear. If they really want to spice things up, give us another 1-60 quest line, even sell it if they have to justify the cost, and give us better epic tier dungeons. Hell, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to make the epic dungeons random. Randomly generate a maze/map, add 3 random bosses, that have random powers and abilities. That would keep gear grinding interesting. Never knowing what's going to be in store. That is dnd.
But this game has only one year.
Neverwinter Nights not much more that a year, but it lasted over ten years.
(And would last until today if main servers not close.)
And the secret of this long time exactly is "the story". The system allowed a freedom there for players unbelievable, even Hoggwards was done in Neverwinter Nights.
Alternative storylines, creative freedom, awards created by players, and easier to implement new systems (as happened with the CEP Neverwinter Nights). We need give ideas, there's no use complaining since this is not LoL.
And I repeat, "be extremely strong" not is the problem, the game still had time for enemies this level appears.
Also, I think this kind of thing funny, because I see many areas of the game unexplored. For example, I have never seen a group that knew exactly "how to get all the chests in CN", many not know even circumvent the protection of arcane chest in Pirate King.
If I were working in dev, hide much things in this game and no one would suspect (have a habit of hiding things in games created by me). :rolleyes:
(I still have problems with "past" in English. If my sentences are confusing, I can try to be more clear.
Since I'm "comparing Neverwinter with Neverwinter Nights".)
Most people don't explore because it just isn't worth it. I haven't explored the other areas of CN, but I have explored MC out of interest. They could definitely add a special something if they did more of that and in a way that it makes it worth your time to do so.
The thing is the game isn't living up to it's full potential. Some people are fine with that, but a lot of others are dissatisfied. The game had the ability to be something people wanted to devote all of their time into, but nowadays most of that time feels not up to good use. The game has gone from an amass of content for you to enjoy into something that has focused on releasing content for the sake of content without focusing on making long term enjoyable content.
Never played nwn myself, though had online friends that did, two having modded a server which is probably something that would make me enjoy it more. You don't get a lot of customisation options here to make stuff that special.
Because it had an actual useful editor and not that crappy thing, Neverwinter got.
I will leave you with this, weary travelers... "Do not become the boiled frog."