test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Only the community make this game better
ragingwizard
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 34
Mod 5 is coming soon and the DEVs are balancing the classes once again, they need the community to help them tune each class to a form of balance, so please for the love of god, instead of whining about class balance all the time with no solution, blaming the DEVs for not having a blind clue what to balance in the game, get off your arses, get on preview
and help these DEVs find a balance, they don't need to test the game, WE are the testers only WE can balance the classes properly, they have other things to do and don't have time to balance, so if you honestly care about the future of class balance stop barking and bite, copy whatever class you have and get testing with players.
This isn't a flame or a rage post, this is a fellow member of the community who's tired of the community complaining about class balance when it's there own fault, the DEVs change whatever seems to be most requested and that can easily become misguided and false, so lets fix this game once and for all starting with some class balancing.
and help these DEVs find a balance, they don't need to test the game, WE are the testers only WE can balance the classes properly, they have other things to do and don't have time to balance, so if you honestly care about the future of class balance stop barking and bite, copy whatever class you have and get testing with players.
This isn't a flame or a rage post, this is a fellow member of the community who's tired of the community complaining about class balance when it's there own fault, the DEVs change whatever seems to be most requested and that can easily become misguided and false, so lets fix this game once and for all starting with some class balancing.
Post edited by ragingwizard on
0
Comments
The only thing i can help with is bug hunting, and i really apreciate that there are people out there who can do all these calculations and out of the box thinking to solve problems related to class imbalances. But i would do more harm than good by entering discussions and making suggestions i don't fully understand.
1. Even longer campaign grinds.
2. one class will have an OP twink build that they will not solve until all of the whales buy one. Or maybe one for PVE and another for PVP.
3. CWs will still be OP in PVE.
Because these are the outcomes of every Mod ever regardless of community feedback. Why bother?
2) Personally if I find issues on preview, I'm just going to keep it to myself unless I selfishly want it fixed.
The game is not our responsibility, we pay them, not the other way round.
The thing is, we're not going to get balance. Accept that. They don't know how to balance and the community is full of biased views that I doubt they could find the right people to listen to. And when you're only chance for balance is to listen to the community, well...
Suer providing feedback is great, but personally I'm past all of that.
I feel like CWs are overrated. sure in the old content the way the dungeons were designed they're still the best. However anything past mod 1, they're really not that special. They work fine and if you really wanted to you could probably still do fine with 5CW. But I wouldn't care so much about seeking out multi CW groups, it's not that big of a deal any more.
I get what the OP is saying...
There is WAY TOO MUCH theory-crafting going on, a lot of knee-jerk reaction in a negative slight. Classic example is all the shrill complaints about the new default action of the DC Sunburst having a knock-back affect. The problem is how everyone was using that encounter in one way up to now on Live and now they can't use that encounter the same way any more. So they whine about it because it *might* affect Party-play a different way, all without actually going into preview and playing the new version. I have YET to see anyone complain about the new way that encounter power works based on actually playing it against mobs. Zip, zilch, nada.
There is a lot of the same going on in the TR Feedback thread.
Then those who do go into Preview will play against test-dummies.
Test Dummies are fine when you're trying to track the min-maxing numbers aspect (and I genuinely appreciate those who do that stuff). But when it comes to "class balance" in terms of playing the class you need to go into the environment and play the class the way you play it on live: against the hostile mobs in the campaign zones.
So yes, I concur with the OP: Don't theory-craft, don't make assumptions and presumptions. Get into Preview and actually play the class, play the new powers, discover what it actually FEELS like, rather than guessing. Then give your feedback to the devs on what it FEELS like to play the new mechanics. Otherwise you're doing everyone (Devs and players alike) a favor by keeping your remarks and 'theories' to yourself.
The Devs need to know your experience, not your theoretical fears or how you THINK something might be. Genuine, authentic, and accurate feedback: that is how the Devs will "balance the class".
And if you think my comment in this post is 'taking the Devs' side" - you have another think coming: I am selfish; I want a balanced class for MY enjoyment. Not a screwed-up class because of your unfounded theories. And you people know who you are.
While you have a point. You don't really need to test it out that sunburst knocking back by default is going to be a pain. It may be nice for solo play, but come on, any time you use divine sunburst now inappropriately you're going to get raged at. It's only a few cases where it is useful, certainly not all of the time. Basically if I see a DC using sunburst on a dungeon run, I'd rather take any other class apart from them. I did see someone complain about at wills only giving divinity though. I personally thought it was an improvement when it takes 2 hits for a pip. Though if they nerf that I could change my mind. Limited testing was done though.
Anyway I still remember lots of people continually talking about the kessels retreat entry requirements way before it reaching live and yet they still made it life, of course there was a lot of other issues on release too as always. How am I expected for them to take feedback seriously?
Most of the community can't be trusted, all they do is read, and don't actually test themselves. Players fear change, yet once they start messing with the change they go quiet because they realize its not as bad as what they seem. Like the whole Life Steal thing, there should NOT BE a stat that basically makes 2/9 classes in the game redundant and not needed, that is horrible game design, but everyone complains in that thread about DPS almost getting one-shot if they didn't. I hate to tell you but in most MMORPGs most DPS DO almost if not outright get one-shot if they don't pay attention.
Why so? Feedback gets ignored. See the mod4 preview thread:
Community: "Fighter should be able to kill something. Raise the base damage".
Dev: "I came up with a system of stacks."
Community: "Stacks are no substitute to base damage. Raise the base damage. Fighters are supposed to fight."
Dev: "Ok, here are more stacks. Oh and I removed your damage mitigation, I felt a fighter class primary role should be to assist."
Fool me once, and I won't go twice on preview server for feedback.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
-SIGH-
Respectfully, Carrytiex, you are making my point for me. You are theory-crafting in this way: "You don't really need to test [that it will be] a pain." TRUE. However, you are presuming that people will *continue* to use that Encounter for want of the old mechanic when there is a better replacement that is just as easy to use and actually does a better job.
This is my point: you are "stuck" on the old way things worked. However, if you actually go in there and TEST it for yourself, you'd know that Sunburst is a completely different Encounter power with completely different use now, and that there's a very suitable replacement: Daunting Light.
I'm not trying to debunk you at all, I am only trying to express that your comment is precisely the kind I am referring to in my first comment in this thread: theory-crafting. It's okay between us, the players. But people are doing it in the feedback forums and threads and putting that stuff in blue text to grab the attention of the Devs - and that just isn't right - it's not feedback of experience, it's feedback of sentiment. I think this is the gist of the OP and why I concur.
As for what you see in your party in a Dungeon run - if you are that anal and selfish about it then so be it; you have that right. But it goes against the whole idea of this thread topic: you are not contributing to the betterment of the game. Just because I might have the Sunburst slotted doesn't mean I don't know when and how to use it in party play. Sure, some may not - but they are new and still learning. So you'll punish them for that? So they end-up hating the game because of people like you who do that?
I think it's outright selfish, rude, and even disgusting when people kick players from the Blacklake Skirmish just because they "light the barrels" that create extra mobs. It's uncalled-for BS the way I see it. We all had to learn and some point, sheesh. This is supposed to be a Co-Op game. At least that's what all the PvE and PvPers keep telling all the Solo-lovers.
But in-truth: it's more like the Elitists against everyone else. At least that's what it looks like sometimes in these forums. The game is supposed to be FUN. People need to learn, they will make mistakes. If you want to punish them without a word as to why and a chance to correct their mistakes, how will they learn?
So back on-topic: please actually play-test the new changes (any new changes to the game) on preview before you give feedback to the Devs (and yes: they really do pay attention to those feedback threads) - and when you give your feedback: be genuine and truthful about it; no more theories and agenda-based sentiments.
-shrug-
Just a few points here.
1) Theorycrafting involves hard statistical numbers. So implying that these are just "theories" isn't necessarily accurate.
2) I agree with your point about playing the character in preview instead of just hitting dummies as well because sometimes raw numbers don't translate well. With that said, I'm sure the screenshots of preview TR's hitting 350-400K+ critical in-game would constitute as hard feedback :P.
3) Keeping our remarks and theories to ourselves sounds a little oppressive I think. It is the internet :P... I mean, I could say keep your opinions and rants to yourself as well.
Not sure if we are playing the same game or not... but pve content... is frighteningly easy for my 14k HR at the moment. How new class encounters are going to interact in a mob fight will be irrelevant since power creep ensures that most mobs will be at 50% health immediately (yes numbers again, I'm sorry)... When dungeons (including CN) can be run with 3 DC's and 2 CW's/SW's... well... party synergy is really a moot point. If the game was more difficult, I would absolutely agree with you, but it isn't. With that said, I think power creep is the biggest issue facing this game and the one that is causing a lot of players to become bored.
As another poster had pointed out, we should not be utilized as the main testers. This would introduce bias and subjectivity into the game. I'm sure the developers take our opinions and theories under advisement, but to actually think that we influence things that strongly is a little naive. If we did, I'm sure most of the in-game bugs would be straightened out already and Neverwinter wouldn't be a CW Tiefling-fest. They have a direction they want to go and a (hopefully) a plan to get there. If the public can help point out some missed bugs or some concerns that's great.
If you can time sun burst right, then you're not really making the most out of your encounters. Plus I didn't say I'd kick the player, just that I would rather it'd be someone else. Just like if someone used Ice storm. Great, it does the most aoe damage out of the rest of the dailies, but I'm still going to judge you as a bad player for it. Maybe I'll make a suggestion, maybe I'll put up with it for the round but unless I see otherwise, I'm just going to presume you're going to be a nuisance. Personally it's been a while since I used sun burst on my dc anyway.
This is a good point. I am so up for a "legendary" dungeon mode that is very difficult to complete, but could drop really good loot.
Definitely would be an easier way of scaling content. I fear they'd continue the unrewarding path they've taken since the modules started though.