What is the measure of a successful CW?

pointsman · September 2014

Is it high personal DPS?

Is it high group DPS, facilitated by CW's actions (controlling/debuffing mobs)?

Is it flexibility in adapting to the group's needs even if it means the CW isn't min/maxed towards maximum DPS?

Is it something else?

Your thoughts please.

veshorok · September 2014

pff..nice outfit obviously! lol

as for how i feel my role (quite often i have to lead my guildies through any dungeon), i'm trying to provide synergy of gameplay to my group - rushing dps when needed, or in opposite - steady, accurate and low-speed walking based on good part of control. and every run i feel that i'm in charge of success or fail - that leads to higher level of concentration and responsibility for my actions. i usually top paingiver charts but i do really care only of smooth run. yes, i slotted p.vorpal instead of GPF - well i compensated that by 4/4 HV instead of red glyphs! lol
that's how i see my personal role in guild party. as for pugging/lfg/legit - i try to do what group needs more.

wixxgs1cht · September 2014

I'd say it's a combination of all the points you mentioned.

While I personally think it's not top priority to completely focus on personal DPS/Paingiver (gear- and playstile wise) a good CW should be aware of the fact that currently he's the top Add-Burn-Machine. So fill this role! This however does not mean that control and protecting the group should be sacrificed at any given time. In the current meta and in my personal experience, this is best done by having the CW initiate the pull because if he knows what he's doing he's not putting his or his party's well-being in jeopardy.

The beauty of the current meta - if you will - lies in the fact that good control mostly is rewarded with good AoE damage output.

However, from my experience the current state of the dungeons and how the CW class synergizes with those put the skill cap at a reasonable to low level. Meaning, there are many CWs out there who do a great job at meeting the criteria I stated above and end up with a very interchangeable performance. Thusly, you'll have a hard time figuring out who's the best or even who's part of the top 10% quantile.

Edit: Before someone steps in and claims soloing dungeons is the be-all and end-all criteria to judge a CWs performance: This sure is valid to judge how well someone can cope with the content thrown at him, yet party play at times vastly differs from a solo approach and requires different priorities and skills.

rashylewizz · September 2014

It has been narrowed down to mostly high dps, and also learning the placement of mobs in dungeons to maximize group dps.

All the other aspects that are used to measure a great CW (like knowing how to toss mobs) are gone.

caexar · September 2014

I measure a CW on how many attacks the enemy gets off. If by either control or pure melt down factor, a controller class should be measure by how well they dictate enemy activity. I've seen a CW or two who were third in DPS in a group as the lone CW in a party but who performed a beautiful and masterful symphony of locking multiple monsters down the entire dungeon. I almost cried it was so awesome.
Don't fall into the trap of DPS is the yardstick. Look for the artists who lock a battlefield down.

rashylewizz · September 2014

caexar wrote: »

Don't fall into the trap of DPS is the yardstick. Look for the artists who lock a battlefield down.

Meh. It really depends on your party.

Most high end groups are tanky and smart enough to never die and just keep hoarding the mobs to kill them fast. Plus don't forget, PVE is now a joke to a lot of hardcore players (hence why you saw the shift to PVP over the past couple of months by elite players and elite guilds).

Again, it largely depends on whether your group is a progression group or an elite speed running group

xtraordinary91 · September 2014

Its all about the Wizarding Hat. I like to know that my compatriots have also achieved Wizarding Excellence and have a pointy hat.

I think this needs to be mesaured on two different scales.

Pve: Well timed control, Not utilising spells that will screw up the rotations of other Party members, not looting during combat. (Like seriously do people understand how annoying that is?????)

PvP: Well timed dodges - A good cw can dodge. A Great Cw can time the dodges to suit. Especially with Severe Reaction. One of my favourite things to do is kite 3 Gwfs on a point while I wait for team mates to respawn (This works much better now than previously with Roar.)

Prior to Mod 4 - the utiliziation of the Shard Rotation (Both Offensively and Defensively) - because of the inherent bugs with the meatball, having a Cw who knows how to prevent the opposing Cw from maximising the effectiveness of their shard was usually a telling difference premades.

(There is a reason 95% of the Shard Cws unslotted Shard when we got matched against Meldanen).

Current mod - Burst Maximisation. I still kill more people with Icy Rays crits than I do with Glyphs and Ray of Frost. And thats in premades.

Good Cws can Dps in Pvp. Successful Cws rotate points to clear nodes. (And thats always been the key for a good Cw, the rate at which they can rotate to nodes to clear points).

abaddon523 · September 2014

I have several ways of measuring my performance. In order:

1. Staying alive. This is very underrated, in my opinion. Glass cannons who frequently fall in battle are a liability to the group. Even when a CW is the Paingiver through a dungeon, if that CW fell in battle and led to group wipes because teammates were trying to revive them then that CW failed. CW's should be able to take care of themselves. CW's should be able to enter any group (i.e. one without a GF) and not repeatedly die. High HP, high lifesteal, and skill in dodging attacks is essential. A dead CW is no use to anyone. Groups really appreciate a CW who can stay alive and finish off a boss after the rest of the group has wiped.

2. Keeping the group alive. This can take many different forms. In ToS, a CW needs to be able to lock down and control all of the adds around Syndrith so the other party members don't get swarmed and killed. In CN, that frequently means storing up a cast of Oppressive Force for when 30+ monsters swarm the party. In epic Dread Vault that means occupying Thoon Hulks by any means necessary (steal time, freeze, shard, or repelling off a cliff) so your party isn't getting pulled into range of the tentacles. In other situations it means being a DPS monster and killing everything before it has a chance to kill your group. I primarily use the Eye of Lathander as my artifact when pugging to help keep group members off the ground.

If you have 1. and 2. down pat then you're a successful CW. Chances are, if you don't die and your party isn't dying then everything will turn out all right. Then you can move on to:

3. Maximize party DPS. This is why High Vizier is, by far, the best PvE armor. It helps your entire group kill much faster. A dead monster is not terribly dangerous. A long battle is more dangerous than a short one. A long battle against the Dracolitch in CN gives you and your party members more opportunities to make a mistake like failing to dodge the hands, or getting caught in his breath attack. The less opportunities for mistakes the better. So kill quickly.

4. Maximize personal DPS and Control. Only after the first three are taken care of should this be focused on. Unfortunately, too many take this metric as to be the most important, and sometimes only, measurement of success.

theosymphany · October 2014

Many excellent points here. I'll add my perspective.

1. Knowledge. Know your encounter, powers, at will , feats and what they actually do. Know everything that's relevant about your class. Know your gears, sets. Know your dungeons, what encounters are coming up, boss mechanics. Know your party- who do you have? What are their relative strength/weaknesses? Are they good players or sub par? Who are the main damage dealer?

2. Execution. Based from your knowledge, build the character for the role you want to play, with however much or little flexibility and utility you have chosen. Are you stats in the right place? Why are you choosing this stat over that one. Knowing your expected role in party vs your chosen role. Knowing how to complement strengths and weaknesses in the party by switching loadouts, gears and even enchants if you have that luxury. Stay alive, do your part, help others do theirs.

3. Temperament. Are you a person someone actually wants to run with? Knowledge and skilled execution mean a lot, but if you're a foul mouthed finger pointing epeen boasting ninja looter you're sure to get ignored quick no matter your skill.

inthere23 · October 2014

Getting friends requests after you've quadrupled the next highest on the paingiver after an extremely smooth, quick run.

kozi001 · October 2014

Getting requests from friendlst or from guild to harder dungeons.

Unfortunatelly for paingiver maniacs it can't really be measured by it...

letojarred1 · October 2014

just 2 for me.
the ability to carry the team even all his/her teammates are undergeared, and "flexibility" when to change his/her load out in tandem with his/her team's line up. Smoother runs are the best runs.

lewel555 · October 2014

pointsman wrote: »

Is it something else?

"13k GS" is what I read in this forum in a post by a CW.

chemboy613 · October 2014

It's a combination of all points. CW have to do many things.

Agree with the point glass cannon is overrated. CW is useless on the floor, yet many times CWs max personal DPS at the expense of other things. IMO this is fail.

Beyond that, it's a balance of all things mentioned. You should be adaptable to the situation, help your teammates however they need it, and be sure to freeze/stun those dangerous things that can really hurt things.

Friend requests after the run... i can barely get through dailies without getting request to run something XD

healary · October 2014

CW = control wizard last I checked. Supposedly it is the "control" factor that makes a CONTROL "wizard" successful in a role playing game.

It doesn't say anything about dps or gear score. I know most online players favor dps and shinny stats in almost all games if the characters are not healers or tanks, but it just makes no sense if what a "successful" control wizard does is to deal damage without controlling the crowd and give a better chance for the party to survive.

helpimblindinrl · October 2014

Personally i think the mark of a good cw is the trail his gigantic dong leaves behind

Tieflings fake this too easily.

diotelp · October 2014

I agree with the people here so say that a good CW is CW that adapts to situations, i play a 16k GS spellstorm thaum, i do high damage, but when needed i swap my skillset around and will take CC skills/features, if the party is struggling and i can be of more use slotting repel on tab and pushing then i will, if my oppressive force is causing others to deal less damage (SW party) then i will slot something else.

To me, anyone who actually does what's needed for the party is a successful CW

tbhdk2 · October 2014

I focus on (on each mob encounter) 1. - control - 2. debuff 3. nuking - then back to control of whatever dangerous mob might be alive with ray of frost.

On boss encounter - debuff - debuff -nuking.

I constantly change skill when "rushing" through a dungeon. Sometimes I will have shard up for prone with icy terrain and steal time - COI on tab for chill stacks (CS dmg nerfed to much) - some times repel for low cooldown debuff on push immunes mobs with tons of life, bosses, plus ROE on tab.

chemboy613 · October 2014

You shouldn't ever put RoE on tab.

Please see my guide here in the encounter section:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?768881-Chem-s-Comprehensive-MoF-guide-(PvE-Mod4)/page2

and Abaddon523's great work here:

http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/351-damage-calculations-for-control-wizard-abilities/

tbhdk2 · October 2014

chemboy613 wrote: »

You shouldn't ever put RoE on tab.

Please see my guide here in the encounter section:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?768881-Chem-s-Comprehensive-MoF-guide-(PvE-Mod4)/page2

and Abaddon523's great work here:

http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/351-damage-calculations-for-control-wizard-abilities/

Very interesting - but Im using it for debuff reason - not for the dmg ticks and fire iceknife and as many encounters I can during EOTS while there is a full debuff.

chemboy613 · October 2014

Of course, the dubuff is very good, but unless you kill it immediately, you are getting 30% once, then 15% each cooldown - because it's double cooldown.

Now if it's on an encounter slot you get the 15% at teh same frequency, so the damage is essentially the same. If you are using RoE, i assume the fight lasts more than the 15 second cooldown, so you could do more single target DPS such as putting icy rays on tab.

That would keep your debuff up for the team AND increase your personal DPS.

tbhdk2 · October 2014

chemboy613 wrote: »

Of course, the dubuff is very good, but unless you kill it immediately, you are getting 30% once, then 15% each cooldown - because it's double cooldown.

Now if it's on an encounter slot you get the 15% at teh same frequency, so the damage is essentially the same. If you are using RoE, i assume the fight lasts more than the 15 second cooldown, so you could do more single target DPS such as putting icy rays on tab.

That would keep your debuff up for the team AND increase your personal DPS.

I cant remember the exact cooldown but you probably got a very good point - but as far I remember the cooldown on both rays match that of eots fairly well and I wait with dual refire until untill eots is up again. However in that sequence its harder to fire away with encounters cause you first have to get the Eots then be quick to fire the rays followed by all the other stuff.

And as I mostly do Elol atm - do a lot of dodging as well.

chemboy613 · October 2014

Sure, if you have any doubt, preview should be up with free respec. If you copied your character, feel free to test.

aulduron · October 2014

A successful CW lessens the need for heals. This can be done through debuffs and control, including heavy AE damage. Let's face it: the object of the game is to take their HPs away before they take yours away.

wimpazoid · October 2014

With the new epic dungeon and skirmish, when you find yourself on a team of squishables with no GF or DC, they usually look to the CW to start fights and throw out CCs before going in. That's kind of a new standard, to go in, not die and make it easier for the team to clear enemies. So by that stick, a less successful CW will be waiting in the support lines.

What is the measure of a successful CW?

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