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Inviting players into a Dungeon
janzik
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
Early game play (initial release) would allow us to invite players into a dungeon already in progress. Because of poor behavior (kicking a party member only to replace with a friend or guild mate,) development decided to disallow party invites from within a current dungeon/skirmish/private instance. This is a major hindrance to everyone who has ever lost a party member during a dungeon or any event requiring a party of 5.
To state the obvious... 9 times out of 10 you must leave the dungeon and start over from scratch. Usually no replacement ever enters to fill the empty spot. If a player does make it through the Que, he/she pops into group briefly only to see that the event is already in progress and leaves immediately. Or the player who joins the group is looking for a different group to help a friend who is experiencing the same missing player problem in a different instance and then leaves.
I have waited for more than an hour before for an incomplete party to fill just to finish the final boss.:mad: only to have an incompetent player with a gear score that barely meets the requirement pop in and cause a group to fail repeatedly and never finish the dungeon.:mad::mad::mad: /RAGE QUIT!
There is a simple solution that would prohibit poor behavior, such as kicking people and inviting friends, that would allow us to fill the incomplete parties when someone is disconected or leaves an instance prematurely...
Bring back the ability to invite party members from within a dungeon/event with a condition...
no party invites can occur within 5~10 minutes of a vote kick.
*I think 5 minutes would be long enough to deter bad behavior of kicking just to reinvite a friend,
However, it may require a 10 minute penalty.
option: If a disconected player is vote kicked the time penalty should be less.(maximum 5 minutes)
NO TIME PENALTY IF A PARTY MEMBER WILLINGLY LEAVES THE GROUP OR INSTANCE.
Please Please Please consider this in the next patch, The current Que system is set up really well for NEW groups who have not yet entered an instance such as dungeons/skirmishes/events. As for players already in one of the forementioned events needing a replacement party member, the Que system is very broken and needs immediate attention.
Especially for players who like to solo, have no friends online, or are guildless... Pick Up Groups are a MUST and the current Que system makes it nearly impossible for them to finish tier 2+ dungeons.
Thank you for your time and consideration
~Janzik
To state the obvious... 9 times out of 10 you must leave the dungeon and start over from scratch. Usually no replacement ever enters to fill the empty spot. If a player does make it through the Que, he/she pops into group briefly only to see that the event is already in progress and leaves immediately. Or the player who joins the group is looking for a different group to help a friend who is experiencing the same missing player problem in a different instance and then leaves.
I have waited for more than an hour before for an incomplete party to fill just to finish the final boss.:mad: only to have an incompetent player with a gear score that barely meets the requirement pop in and cause a group to fail repeatedly and never finish the dungeon.:mad::mad::mad: /RAGE QUIT!
There is a simple solution that would prohibit poor behavior, such as kicking people and inviting friends, that would allow us to fill the incomplete parties when someone is disconected or leaves an instance prematurely...
Bring back the ability to invite party members from within a dungeon/event with a condition...
no party invites can occur within 5~10 minutes of a vote kick.
*I think 5 minutes would be long enough to deter bad behavior of kicking just to reinvite a friend,
However, it may require a 10 minute penalty.
option: If a disconected player is vote kicked the time penalty should be less.(maximum 5 minutes)
NO TIME PENALTY IF A PARTY MEMBER WILLINGLY LEAVES THE GROUP OR INSTANCE.
Please Please Please consider this in the next patch, The current Que system is set up really well for NEW groups who have not yet entered an instance such as dungeons/skirmishes/events. As for players already in one of the forementioned events needing a replacement party member, the Que system is very broken and needs immediate attention.
Especially for players who like to solo, have no friends online, or are guildless... Pick Up Groups are a MUST and the current Que system makes it nearly impossible for them to finish tier 2+ dungeons.
Thank you for your time and consideration
~Janzik
Post edited by janzik on
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Comments
I also think something needs to be done about the Vote-to-Kick system because it is utterly broken and abused to hell and back. I don't see it a lot with NW Legit because they actually are legit players, but I've been running Guantlgrym trying to get a set of T2 gear to build upon for my main and it seems like half the runs we finish with the boss and suddenly I have Vote-to-Kick notifications popping up on my screen every five seconds. So far I've not been the one being voted on (that I know of), but one of these days it's going to come around for me to be the one being voted on and with complete strangers in the team I can't count on at least one of them saying no.
I would support the calls to be able to invite a player while in a dungeon. The only reason this was axed is because the kicking system is completely and utterly flawed.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Its just a rough draft of what could be.. I would Love the Guild Party Que for Dungeons I think it would benefit my guild perfectly. We do runs together all the time And people have to wait turns to come with us. If someone left in party having my guild to be able to step in would help a lot! Not saying all guilds would like this idea but its something.. And Option
As to the queue system, it is fine, the problem is lack of diverse players. People are spoiled on running teams of wonky make up (3 gwf 2 cw etc). Dungeons are NOT skirmishes and therefore look for specific roles and as near as I can tell the GWF is only a dps role. If you play a GF or a DC you pretty much get instant queues in peak times ... the problem is EVERYONE is playing some form of DPS.
A real fix for this is to implement a class role system that players can check for instance ... GWF can more or less fill a tank role so therefore when they set themselves up for queue the should be able to queue up as dps and tank ... SW should be able to queue as healer and dps (obviously this would depend on build and could also be abused). This at least would allow more range in people filling dungeon queues as right now the limited number of GF and DC and the extremely large amount of DPS roles just doesn't allow for much in timely queueing for dungeons. Its not that its broken its the fact that players don't seem to want to do anything but DPS.
I don't see any of this changing so you get my vote for implementing a invite to party while inside a dungeon option.
I kind of agree with it but on the other hand this would just be another way to exploit, because I can see groups/people that can solo content for the fun of it and just using toons via a separate account bringing them in and farming hard to obtain items.
Great ideas in thought but this game has become so exploitative that it is just plain sad, and as good an idea as this may sound it will just be another feature to be used and abused.
Cheers.
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
This can already be done. They just make a private team and then join. Being able to invite someone mid-dungeon would not make it any easier or more exploitable.
@the OP: Interestingly enough, the game engine already has a solution for this. Champions, the oldest version of the engine, sells two items in their zen shop for 300 zen each: "Warp to Teammate" and "Summon All Teammates". A few of the Champions "lairs" (their equivalent of dungeons) block the devices, but not all of them. A direct port of the device would be the equivalent of inviting someone to your team while most of you are outside the boss room of a dungeon and the new person is in Protectors Enclave. They hit the "warp to teammate and teleport directly to you, or you hit "summon all teammates" and your whole team including the one in PE is brought to you.
The ones in Champs are also account bound so you can swap 'em between characters.
I'd love to have those baby's added to both NW and STO. The code already exists in the engine so it wouldn't need full development, just updating to the newer version of the game that NW uses plus UI work.
If someone is operating a party like that I would talk to a legit channel mods about that. They are very nice and helpful folk that are happy to sort out issues. As far as people getting vote kicked for loot mistakes it normally only happens when someone makes a "mistake" repeatedly after being ask to stop. Some bad apples do leak into legit because it is a public channel, but I would not lose hope because it is still the single best place to find people to run dungeons with other than your guild.
Yes. It sucks to fail a DD at the very end because a team mate leaves for any reason.
That said, I would support a kick system that requires unanimous vote. 4-1? What happens if two people happen to be offline? Unanimous to online members only? Ok, so then I get on with 2 friends. when it comes time to kick you, one of my friends closes his game client and disconnects. 3-1. bye bye you anyway. Alternatively, the person disconnects, but because it's required to have a 4-1 vote there is no quorum, so you now have a 4 person team and no way to fill the slot.
The people that use the vote system to ruin your day will always have ways to do it.
Better solution? Join a quality guild and stop pugging. All these these sorts of problems more or less evaporate - even the one where you are a man down, in a good guild, you just ask for ppl to queue and more often than not, they do.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Yeah another trigger happy kicker for the large ignore list. The is largely becoming a big problem in Neverwinter whereby you think you can kick people because of your (x) reason. No one gives you the right to kick other people from dungeons just because that person doesn't meet what (x) standards you want. The only legit reason to "vote kick" someone who disconnected and are not coming back.
I'm not sure how long you have been playing, but are you telling the truth, you have never joined a group that stated a particular GS, just to get into the party then when you did the dungeon they short cut everything just to get to the end......
I find that hard to believe..... Heck I seen the same thing during events, and they are met for all players, so what's the point in a specific GS just to get into the party if the end result in it is to shortcut it?????
Cheers.
P.S. The statement about joining a good guild is the best answer +3 to that one, because for people to complain about the que and getting a random that's the spin of the wheel as one said.
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
As for you saying joining the Guild is the best answer. Yes it is. But Life happens sometimes while doing a run and PPl have to Leave or they get disconnected. If you played the game long enough you would know this happens. And When it does happen. The Que system sucks .Thats the whole point to this thread. If your going to just say that its Fine. Okay.Dont Post anymore and leave the posting to people who think their is a problem. .
Cheers.
As far as the original topic, a few more ideas:
1) If all 5 players at the beginning of a dungeon are in the same guild, you are free to invite into the dungeon. I don't know how often this would be a benefit, but it's a pretty clear-cut case and a small incentive to running with a guild (if we want to incentivise that more?).
2) If a player voluntarily leaves the dungeon instead of being kicked you can invite people to replace him. This would at least eliminate the motivation to kick, but it might motivate people to grief people and try to make them leave instead. And it wouldn't help for disconnects.
3) If a player is kicked after being disconnected for a certain length of time (5-10 minutes?) then you could invite to fill the spot. Give them a fair chance to come back (hell, to reboot even), but otherwise recognize that it's nobody's fault that their gone.
1) If all 5 players at the beginning of a dungeon are in the same guild, you are free to invite into the dungeon. I don't know how often this would be a benefit, but it's a pretty clear-cut case and a small incentive to running with a guild (if we want to incentivise that more?).
2) If a player voluntarily leaves the dungeon instead of being kicked you can invite people to replace him. This would at least eliminate the motivation to kick, but it might motivate people to grief people and try to make them leave instead. And it wouldn't help for disconnects.
3) If a player is kicked after being disconnected for a certain length of time (5-10 minutes?) then you could invite to fill the spot. Give them a fair chance to come back (hell, to reboot even), but otherwise recognize that it's nobody's fault that their gone.[/QUOTE]
i hope they look at this and at least give it thought! take some of what we said and put it into action..
I like the queue system, but it really doesn't work that well.
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Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
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There are problems with every type. I have seen skirmishes where the leader decides to start leeching or stay dead and the whole party is jammed because of that. Also I have seen the fore-mentioned vote-kicks from nowhere, where you can't even see the reason why you were kicked and the worst was kick from PVP, which I didn't even think possible with the following 30 minutes que-ban. Luckily kicks out of nowhere are quite rare, atleast for me as I always go with yell-parties (premade from LFG channel).
I suggest the following:
- Fix the leader randomization when entering/exiting dungeons and skirmishes.
- Put a possibility of minimum GS into the que, where you won't be addded to parties with any members having GS less than stated to avoid hopeless parties.
- In Premade parties, leader has the right to kick, unless he decides to change the setting to vote.
- In random parties (que parties), there is the vote kick system by MAJORITY and no leader. This means that in 5 member (and 4 member) parties, you need 3 yes votes for kick.
I agree that the lack of invites in dungeons is annoying, but if it would change, there would be parties that have been designed only to fight 'till the boss and there be replaced with someones guild members. Thus there really should be reputation where accounts would gather fame/infamy based on how they behave in dungeons and that could be checked by anyone anywhere (I really don't understand why I must be in same instance to check someones GS or what gear they are using, except perhaps in pvp). Thus everybody could avoid players who have large negative reputation from stealing items by stalling or pressing need when stated greed rules and also for kicking players for no valid reason. Yes, there probably would become -1 for everybody in party for even valid kicks, but atleast this would put people to avoid kicking.
Personally I have no problem with getting people trough que to dungeons, but it just should be made quicker and person who has once left a party/instance, shouldn't rejoin it anymore trough que. This would help with finding the right party faster and avoiding those broken skirmish instances so common in Master of Hunt and Shores of Tuern. Also after 15 minutes have gone without anybody coming from que, there should be chance to invite players to dungeons. This would make it undesirable to kick players for replacing them, but would make it possible to finish dungeons when nobody ques it, which is just too often.
Not this. Que with less than 5 people is some times mandatory, especially in Gauntlgrym to get the finals run done. Also I do the daily some times by leaving the map, doing what I do, queing on the dungeon and then when there is some party put on que with 4 peeps, it kicks me in.
And A Good-day to you Tolfy, I'll begin by saying...that Tolfy you probably think I'm flaming you but I am not I sincerely mean that and I can honestly say I can agree with some of what your saying. To be honest I would agree whole heartedly with just about everything in this thread if not all, except for one reason, I use my God given gift ( As we all have it ) of fore-sight and as much as these are good ideas I can say this without malice that these things would be abused without question before they were used for the reason they would be implemented.
And I just base this on " My " experience with this game thus far and what I have seen, if you had everyone being honest then things would work, but when you get into groups after filling out the resume just to get into the group, and then for whatever reason you get kicked at the end, as you say... That sucks.... I have a friend that " Will Not " go on voice when in a PUG group because of her experience within one... to this day there is no idea what was said and/or why.
I can say that sense I played this game " Open Beta " the number of times that I have been in a PUG that used voice I can count on 2 hands anyways, how the Heck do you get any type of strategy working when the group leader doesn't even convey what is going on or what he/her needs from the group. I have joined PUGS Via leaders exception but then there seems to be someone else taking the lead, I could understand this if they were in the same guild but usually not.
Something else I would like to see in PUGs upon entering is a window where everyone agrees to the loot system because I was just in a run lastnight, where somehow the leader crown got switched from the original person to another and this new person won the majority of the rolls. There is no way this should be happening, and there is no way to know what they might have had their loot system set to via their character.
Anyways I'm getting off track her, in a nutshell if you could trust people to use new options honestly it would be all gravy, but.......
Cheers All.
P.S. We All Know Their Are Issues With The Game, Question Is..........
" ARE WE GOING TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION, OR PART OF THE PROBLEM "
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "