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Anyone else think we need some T4 dungeons?
macaran5123
Member Posts: 122 Arc User
kattefjaes wrote: »[The] ... ludicrous GS inflation ... [is resulting in] PvE content [that] is [not] even remotely a good match for [the players].
I totally agree with this. As an 18.2k GS DC that doesn't even have the third IWD buff, nor am I passed the second zone in the latest campaign, it seems that there is no point to pve.
There is zero challenge. Even with Tyranny of Dragons offering better gear than what I have currently, I have no incentive to do it. Why would I when there is no pve content that currently even remotely offers a challenge beyond "how fast can I farm this" for the GS I have now anyway?
I almost don't log in anymore; other than when I feel like pvping, there is no point.
I would love it if they'd add a t3 difficulty pass of the current dungeons, and at the same time add a t4 pass -- a t4 pass that was intentionally _impossible_ to complete with the current gear, but gave t4 rewards (or at least a token for t4 rewards). Why? because trying for an impossible goal is what makes gamer's trigger fingers itch.
Really, all they need to do to bump up dungeon difficulty is, not have trash mobs one shot people, but bump up the AI. I mean really, we're supposed to be fighting a DM here. Make WAAAAY more types of mob AI: smart mobs should go for healers and be hard to taunt, dumb mobs should attack the first thing they see and be taunted by the simple expediency of throwing a rock at them, and some mobs should just _loathe_ certain player races.
Also, the dungeons REALLY need an AI director similar to the L4D series. If I DM the same campaign (dungeon in this case, not a Neverwinter "campaign") twice, I'm not going to spawn everything in the exact same place, nor have every encounter play _exactly_ the same, or, heck, even have exactly the same opponents. Spice it up, lure players into false senses of security, scale the rate of spawns or difficulty to how well or poorly the group has been doing, or have the D&D equivalent of "accidentally setting off the car alarm," there is so much potential for an AI director _currently_ let alone combined with some updated mob AI.
Anyway, this is my vote for T4 (and 3) DUNGEONS!
Post edited by macaran5123 on
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So, your answer to GS creep is ... more GS creep?
I'm a DC too, and have an even higher GS, and yes...you are absolutely right that the solo content is not a challenge, and running dungons with other equally well-geared people borders on being a joke...however, I'm not at all convinced that adding more, harder dungeons is the right thing.
That would result in calls for more and better gear, which would increase the current gear inflation problem even further....moreover, that would make it even harder for new players to catch up. The charcters with GS above 18K are probably a small minority - and the game should not focus on juist giving them even more and better gear.
If you want challenge, there is plenty of things for you to do - soloing dungeons for one, running Epic DV with an undergeared PUG (only recommended for masochists, though).
And about PvE being pointless - well, I don't agree with your position that it is because of a lack of challenge - for me the big problem is that the reward/effort ratio is too low - too many BoP items in the hardest dungeons, and too low chance of setting something usefukl to sell. I still do a lot of dungeon runs, though - sometimes to help new lvl 60s in my guild to get gear, sometimes just because I'm bored with killing dragons.
However, there is always the foundry - not for the rewards, of course, but just for "something new"....
Surprisingly yes, something to solve outgearing content is to create harder content that scales to that GS. Boons and artifacts gave us a power creep. The difference between t1 and t2 sets generally isn't really going to affect balance so much and we do need something to strive for, so that's not to say a t3 or t4 set would recreate the situation. DCs still use t1 after all. Though they should make the set bonuses actually compelling instead of relying on 1 good set which is more effective than any new set... I don't really have tonnes of faith in their ability to create appropriate content in difficulty and rewards anymore though.
New sets would contribute to more creep. We're going to have a constant supply of creep anyway as the whole boon thing shows no signs of changing or stopping. I'd be fine with higher difficulty stuff, but adding additional gear tiers should be a low priority; we've had T3 for what? 4 months? T1/2 for 16 months? And theoretically, the only purpose of T1/2 now is to unlock access to IWD and your T3 sets. It's not hard to imagine a time when there's enough creep sources that T1/2 are completely ignored (or bought for super cheap). Why rush that?
Isn't black ice still t2? It's only good for pvp anyway. The profound is t2.5, An no set since mod 1 has been really worth using since mod 1 started for pve. So they didn't really creep power at all.
u might be able to consider t3 artifact equipment..... as it is bis.
But yeas i do vouch for higher tier dungeons, just dont give us gear to power creep even further just getting t2 gear reamkes with either t2.5 stats or overloads would be enough or even better just good sums of RP as thats where most of our investment goes anyways once u have ur sets.
Black Ice, fully powered, is called Tier 3.
Ah yes, it's been a while that I looked at them that I totally forgot :P. I found the items generally unimpressive apart from pvp and since they needed refining constantly I didn't pay too much attention them. I mostly looked at them on preview and since then didn't care.
Also, there are a lot of things players would love to drop from dungeon chests _other_ than gear. Refinement items, twink BoE items, BoE versions of high end gear to sell.
However, I think the focus of the thread got more on the "t4 armor" than what I intended. I would like "harder" dungeons with more "rewards" (in whatever form that may be), and preferably via making them harder WITHOUT simply adjusting a damage absorb and output slider on the mobs.
What I really, really, want for a so-called "T4" dungeon, is the AI director style dungeon gameplay. Dungeons that adapt to the group, mob AI that makes players think, and non-static spawns.
I don't care what the rewards are, and I actually agree that whatever they are they should not creep gear more, rather just be excessively hard dungeons that give "valuable" -- to the player -- loot.
Also, the Tyranny armor set is what'd I'd call the first true "T3" armor-set. We still only have t1 and t2 dungeons to pick from. (Or t0 and t1 if you take it that way). First they'd need to add a version of the dungeons that is challenging with Tyranny gear. As for my imaginary T4 dungeons, as I said, I would like them to be designed to be impossible to beat with the current gear.
By "impossible to beat," I mean: impossible to beat with the current dungeon running play style of "pull-CC-aoe-tank/heal-repeat." They should only be able to be completed with conscious, well coordinated, teamwork. I'm thinking more of a "there is an encounter up ahead, let's all decided what the best abilities to put on are hotbar will be so we can beat it," rather than "I never change abilities, just blow things up till nothing is left moving."
I hope that makes what I'm trying to say more clear. I'm not sure it does, but if anyone actually cares and wants me to clarify, just ask.
-Helos
So what? There's a party chat, use it. I've seen 10x harder dungeons, with a ton of boss mechanics, explained in 2-3 mins in party chat.
We need challenging content, something that can't be done with a 14k pug or by joining a random team using the queue. We need something that will be challenging for months, that can't be done by 90% of the players. We need something to warrant upgrading to rank 8+, because atm if you're not a high-end PvPer there's absolutely no need to upgrade past rank 8s. Atm, you don't need any of the newly introduced items to be able to farm the available content. A 21k team, atm, will clear CN/eLoL ~1mins faster than a 15k team. Where's the incentive to spend AD/Zen on improving your character?
We need something that takes ~2h to be completed by your average 16k-17k pug. That way we'll have an incentive to upgrade to 19k-20k, while lower GS players will still be able to complete it, it would just take them 3h+ and a lot of tries. I can't remember when was the last time i've struggled with beating the end boss, while i don't remember ever having a problem with beating sub-bosses, while in other MMOs i've played i was struggling if i went in unprepared.
Also, we need a new difficulty level for dungeons (eg. Nightmare) and a Gatekeeper, that you'll have to beat solo in order to be able to enter Nightmare dungeons. I've seen this in another MMO, and it's a very good idea, since that way you knew if someone was LF anything Nightmare he have beaten the every dungeon in Elite (Epic here) mode and he passed the Gatekeeper test, meaning he can do more than just stand in one place and press some buttons at random.
I hope they never introduce Funcom design and The Secret World's failures into the Neverwinter.
Before T4 is even considered then the GS system needs an overhaul.
Neverwinter has an internal voice system. Everyone who has a PC/laptop could afford a $5 earphone and at least listen in.
As for the really casual players who have no intent of participating, we already have tons and tons of dailies and heroic encounters to keep them occupied. Those were created for the casual players right? Who else would want to waste their time doing dragon heroic encounters?
They prob won't since it won't work for a F2P game, but i would love to see some of the good things implemented here. Also, doesn't LoL remind you of certain bosses from the Hell Dimension dungeons (dumbed down of course)? I was so excited for LoL, when i saw a video of it, that's what made me return to this game, and then after 20 days of dailies, i finally did my first run and was hugely
This game has so much wasted potential.
100% agree. We have more than enough content for the casuals. The current amount of dailies, HEs, w/e available is more than enough to keep a casual player occupied for 1+ year. Doing the dailies for boons requires 1-2 hours of playtime/day, so someone playing 2h/week will progress at least 7 times slower than someone playing 1-2h/day, and at that pace even finishing Sharrandar is ~1 year and we have 4 modules now full of dailies to do.
A lot of ppl here on the forums seems to confuse casuals and newbie/solo/bad players. A casual is someone who can't log in on a daily basis and/or plays less than a few hours/week, someone playing 1+ hours/day, every day, can't be considered a casual.
Sadly This would probably never happen
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
If you have to implement loot, how about some non-gameplay relevant loot? Like fashion? That would answer the GS inflation, though of course you also could just keep on making new harder content.
Even without voice. What I truely and tragically miss is that conversation at the door after a wipe about what went wrong and how we should fix it. That never happens anymore because everything gets steamrolled. Instead of challenges we get more RNG. I mean look, I am bored of killing dragons. Bored. Where in the world of fantasy settings do you run into that? We desperately need harder content. The only realissue is what kind of reward can that content give that will not result in even more power creep? To me it would be nice to have some sort of guild-wide bonus collectively worked for. Because I think the guild dynamic could use the boost.
Been there done that, infact any low gs players can complete any dungeon in this game now very easily.
I have a GF friend that we both (im a DC) just go around random queuing for dungeons because we basically have nothing to do, and once we do like 2 dungeons we are both bored, so we just spend the rest of our time on PE either afk looking for conversations on guild chat, or just stand in PE like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> :P
85% of my playing time these days go by just standing afk in PE.
Now on a serious note all we need is a really good dungeon that is also rewarding, i will tell you this, Us players dont mind doing the same dungeons everday all day as long as it is rewarding. Take CN for exmaple, until mod 4 launches CN was the dungeon that held alot of players in the game.
There was a time when i would open my friend list, and i would see almost everyone in my friend list doing CN runs, it was the same dungeon but it was very rewarding, and wasnt locked behind the RNG gate we have now.
But now i barely see those players log on, and i have to say it really is a shame.
Just 1 or 2 dungeons that are very challanging, and are rewarding.
Anyway let see how mod 5 turns out, last time i checked it appears everyone is really getting tired of these dailies and grinding, let see if they will continue the trend.