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PvP Suggestion for M5/M6
xgrandz02
Member Posts: 702 Arc User
Spoiler: This suggestion is not to Resolve our PvP problems, but to give High-Geared Players another option, to join awesome PvP matches. With a better Chance to meet, just as well geared Opponents.
PvP Suggestion ideas for M5/M6
It's Simple:
Add a Second PvP Queue Option! With a Min.Requirement of 15k GS to join.
this could call "PvP Advanced Domination".
(or starting with Min.Gear Score of 13k+)
1. Normal Domination Queue:
The "Normal Queue" will stay how is it! with NO requirement,
The only changes for Normal Queue are lowering the Rewards.
- Lower and Reduce the Rewards Overall!
- Lower AD from Quest
- Lower Glory from match
- and so on.
2. Advanced Domination Queue:
The Second Queue Option whit a Requirement of 15k to join
- Should have Double of rewards as the normal Queue
- Double AD from Quest
- Double Glory from match
Queue facts & Requirements:
- There's total of 25-PvE Queue Options available
- 19 with a Min.Gear Score Requirement (5,7k -13k)
- 1 content with Requirement (10k+ Boons Icewind Dale)
- 1 PvP Domination
- 1 PvP Gauntlgrym (time limited lv60)
Did you reached the 15k?
You can still Join/Queuing for the normal PvP (without worries)
or you can try the Advanced PvP Domination & take the challenge.
Why would we need another PvP Queue with requirement?
Because the difference between a new Lvl.60 player to a EndGame High Geared player is too Extreme.
The difference is just too big!
With all this Items and many more coming:
- Legendary Artifacts /Weapon/ Gears
- Perfect Enchantments
- ALL Boons
- Best of Equipment / Sets
- and many more!
Let be Realistic, if you fight against a High geared player as a newcomer,You will never win!
You can say you are skilled PvP Player but also you can't win, this is the truth!
Why a 15k GS Requirement ?
I think 15k is likely normal, is not a big challenge to achieve.
probably 80% of a whole players inGame are already over 15k
The Second Queue will be more for PvP focused players or simply for player who enjoy pvp!
and not just join just for the Quest, there's already a Requirement for Dungeons of 13k
why not for PvP also.
Why should we start with 15k?
The Players:
- been playing longer and has some experience
- working on his armor to come forward
- have probably a good gear and Enchantments
- Finished probably some "boons
- they have a better Fundamental Basis
- has a good resistance to survive
- have some knowledge, what to do on a PvP match.
- enjoy the challenge!
Do you think 15kGS, mean no one want join?
This is wrong!,
- This new Queue Options will also give Premade Partys a better Chance to have Awesome matches!
- No more worries to have a 8k/beginner Player on team
- No more afraid of Bots on team
- You can be sure who join the advanced pvp won't leave.
- More PvP Fun for Geared players
- Players who like Soloing Queue",will have a better chance to join a Experienced party.
- we should not underestimate the pvp community.
- there's enough players, who would love to join a match to fight against opponents
with same Gear or PvP focused.
Here's one more reason to adding another PvP queue
Beginners will be have a chance to enjoy the pvp match and not only get smashed by 18k or 20k Player! Beginners won't leave frustrated the PvP match because they died by 1Hit.
What do you think about? - PLS keep it Constructive, not flame.
PvP Suggestion ideas for M5/M6
It's Simple:
Add a Second PvP Queue Option! With a Min.Requirement of 15k GS to join.
this could call "PvP Advanced Domination".
(or starting with Min.Gear Score of 13k+)
1. Normal Domination Queue:
The "Normal Queue" will stay how is it! with NO requirement,
The only changes for Normal Queue are lowering the Rewards.
- Lower and Reduce the Rewards Overall!
- Lower AD from Quest
- Lower Glory from match
- and so on.
2. Advanced Domination Queue:
The Second Queue Option whit a Requirement of 15k to join
- Should have Double of rewards as the normal Queue
- Double AD from Quest
- Double Glory from match
Queue facts & Requirements:
- There's total of 25-PvE Queue Options available
- 19 with a Min.Gear Score Requirement (5,7k -13k)
- 1 content with Requirement (10k+ Boons Icewind Dale)
- 1 PvP Domination
- 1 PvP Gauntlgrym (time limited lv60)
Did you reached the 15k?
You can still Join/Queuing for the normal PvP (without worries)
or you can try the Advanced PvP Domination & take the challenge.
Why would we need another PvP Queue with requirement?
Because the difference between a new Lvl.60 player to a EndGame High Geared player is too Extreme.
The difference is just too big!
With all this Items and many more coming:
- Legendary Artifacts /Weapon/ Gears
- Perfect Enchantments
- ALL Boons
- Best of Equipment / Sets
- and many more!
Let be Realistic, if you fight against a High geared player as a newcomer,You will never win!
You can say you are skilled PvP Player but also you can't win, this is the truth!
Why a 15k GS Requirement ?
I think 15k is likely normal, is not a big challenge to achieve.
probably 80% of a whole players inGame are already over 15k
The Second Queue will be more for PvP focused players or simply for player who enjoy pvp!
and not just join just for the Quest, there's already a Requirement for Dungeons of 13k
why not for PvP also.
Why should we start with 15k?
The Players:
- been playing longer and has some experience
- working on his armor to come forward
- have probably a good gear and Enchantments
- Finished probably some "boons
- they have a better Fundamental Basis
- has a good resistance to survive
- have some knowledge, what to do on a PvP match.
- enjoy the challenge!
Do you think 15kGS, mean no one want join?
This is wrong!,
- This new Queue Options will also give Premade Partys a better Chance to have Awesome matches!
- No more worries to have a 8k/beginner Player on team
- No more afraid of Bots on team
- You can be sure who join the advanced pvp won't leave.
- More PvP Fun for Geared players
- Players who like Soloing Queue",will have a better chance to join a Experienced party.
- we should not underestimate the pvp community.
- there's enough players, who would love to join a match to fight against opponents
with same Gear or PvP focused.
Here's one more reason to adding another PvP queue
Beginners will be have a chance to enjoy the pvp match and not only get smashed by 18k or 20k Player! Beginners won't leave frustrated the PvP match because they died by 1Hit.
The point about this thread is that, while the current queu function will stay the EXACT as it is now, there will be another (altho might take longer to get in) queu which at least will distinguish more in terms of GS.. Note that if you like ROFLStomp or dont like to wait even a lil bit, the 15k GS can STILL queu for the normal one just like it is now on live.
Player gap between the older player and new has become even larger now with the ToD module and i think it is time to introduce this feature esp for the older player to get in a more likely to balance match
What do you think about? - PLS keep it Constructive, not flame.
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
Post edited by xgrandz02 on
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Comments
With using Now" the Legendary Weapon and Belts. (fully refined)
Agreed wholeheartedly.
As a GF, DC and HR I didn't appreciate a response of 'we know it will be near impossible to complete on two of your characters but have no plans of caring enough to make it in any way fair at this time.'
However I do have to disagree, wholeheartedly, with this thread's suggestion.
The biggest issue PvP has right this second is that there is not a large enough player base to support even the one queue. Making an elitist version of the queue won't fix any p[roblems, it would create more.
What will happen is that the queue with a horrible requirement (gear is in no way defining of skill. God I wish the devs would remove it or hide it from other people) will take forever to match people together so it will likely be abandoned...
Or it takes enough of those people out that it will make the few, such as me, who wouldn't use the high level queue completely and utterly overpowered in the other queue.
And when we look at the truth of PvPers...they love cheap wins. It hurts but it's true.
There are just way too many flaws with trying to separate the player base. It's really not a good idea.
How is supposed a 12K GS player to make up with skills alone vs my:
19.5K GS char
- perfects
- all boons
- 1 year experience
The difference between new and old is INSANELY large.
And there are no mechanics whatsoever to gap it in the game... besides paying a large wad of cash.
In other MMO I played, I missed a full expansion (3 yrs or so).
When I returned, I bridged the gap to BiS in 2 months. Just 2 months.
And all it took was playing the game with dedication.
What can you do here in 2 months of playing with dedication? Can you get to 19K GS and perfects, and boons, and legendaries!?!?
- The "Normal Queue" will stay how is it! there is not a requirement for high or low gs.
Only the Reduce of any rewards.
Well if like to kill (as Geared player) )or waste your time a pvp match where players will mostly stay on base or leave, feel free to do it!
Being in a casual friendly guild I play with a few players who have comparably good gear score because they are long time players but they are not skilled players. They'll be the first to tell you that they can't compete at equal gear score. Not even close to equal gear score.
Which is why it is not and will not ever be used to separate the player base. It doesn't matter if they have 16K GS if they can't dodge, can't land skill shots or do not have a build which is ideal for PvP. (Will come to that last point later)
Gear will augment skill. This means if two players of equal gear face each other the person with superior skill will often win. However if the person with less skill had better gear than the person with better skill at some point the odds will be balanced to a 50/50 win ratio. It is not a linear equation. To assume it is is to assume all players possess the same skill: they do not.
Your Elo rating is a performance rating. Imagine it as a scale which has gear on one side and skill on the other. The number when it is balanced is your Elo rating. This is a crude example but holds true for simplicity's sake for this discussion.
So to simply take a chunk and say "This guy has 15K GS so he must be competitive with 15K+ GS players is 100% incorrect. It would be an absolute death sentence to people I know personally more so than any argument you could make about the current situation.
The current situation is, again, due to the pure and simple fact that the system takes shortcuts to reduce queue times. It makes the best matches it can as quickly as it can. The only way to really solve that is to increase, not decrease, the population the queue pulls from.
Now to go back to the discussion on builds, there's another fact to consider. I do not build for gear score. I have a ton of helpful stats which do not contribute to gear score such as combat advantage bonus, movement bonus, extra HP...etc. Gear Score is not the end all, be all. I have 15K GS but if I wanted to sacrifice effectiveness for a stupid number I could easily have 17K with my current gear if I had focused on building just for gear score alone.
I could even argue the people who are building just to make people happy at that stupid number are the cause because putting stats into locations do not mean they will be good stats to have or are stacked at a level which means the most return on investment.
So again, as every person who takes the time to think past why you are losing...it's not the gear score. The game has more variables than gear, such as population pool, and they play a much larger role.
Well i understand you're afraid of this Idea,
But if you fight against a High geared player as a newcomer, How Realistic is now "PvP should Skill based & not Gear?
Whit all this Items that we got, it's impossible to think so.
The Idea is just another option to give PvP Players a chance to join a PvP-Match with Experienced Players.
The Currently/Normal PvP Queue "will stay how is it", the get Just the Lowering of any Rewards.
(Not a GS maximun)
I think we should not underestimate the pvp community,
There's many players they will join the Advanced PvP Domination, this is sure.
Believe it there's enough players who would love to join a match to fight against
players same Geared or PvP focused.
There's already a requirement for Dungeons of 13k and we all know,
this is mostly not enough to finish the dungeon. (Players are 16k+ or Higher)
well 15k+ is an Idea, we could start 13k-15k.
Think passed the gear and think about how easily any gear related measurements are abused.
You'll end up with bad players trying just to build for gear score all over worse than it is now.
You'll have high skilled and high geared players going into low level gear queue with less frequently which means those that do will be absolutely overmatching the enemies.
You'll still have the exact same problem as the current system but even worse: small population pool.
I could go on for at least an hour citing all the reasons this creates more problems than it solves (if it solves any problems because the problems you think it will solve it will make worse)
There's just nothing good about any idea like this if you think past step one. Never suggest something without thinking about all of the what ifs otherwise I will point out all of the flaws. And any system which is trying to solve the problem by separating the player base into gear score only looks good if you don't consider the implications.
It's not a cure. It's a disease.
- The 15k+ is a suggestion to join, same as the 13k Requirement of Dungeons to join.
13k+ also don't mean that we are competitive for the dungeon, Mostly we have to be higher to successfully finish it.
I know gs dont mean im Skilled Player,But we have a better chance to survive with our resistance,
thanks of the Equip.
And now Players with fully Refined " Legendary Weapon and Belts will smashed and dominate the PvP.
So when such players see theres another PvP queue option as the normal,
with a chance to meet same high geared players also. "They will Join!
all these lines have catches in them and don`t work how they`re written.
however, a minimum gs requirement is a good thing.
for example 8k.
can get that easy from ah ;p
also for 20v20
also, some kind of increased resistence to players about 6k gs higher.
like scaled pve.
something like that, just an idea.
don`t need to be much, but just a little
Btw is that a Dragonborn with an Arcane Wanderer hat transmuted?
I usually only do the Arena PvP events, but I played for several hours last night, desperately trying to get enough Glory for another Bloodskull Raven to Upgrade during the double RP event.
The number of times we were hopelessly outclassed by GS as the other team had already upgraded all their gear was ludicrous.
You can now "Inspect" the enemy team in the Scoreboard while at the camp fire waiting to start playing. In one match we were up against a Guild team that had a GS between 17k and 19.8k, with overloaded Black Ice gear and three Rank 100 Artifacts. All five players. Our team had between 10 and 15k GS.
In one game, we had a 17.5k GWF on our side, and all he did was rant about how bad we were and lowering his standing in the Leadership board. Seriously, I never AFK in PvP, and every time I went out I was frozen and stunned and unable to move until I was dead.
.
maybe give glory more better usage, otherwise, there is no place to spend those glory.
Because then people then have the OPTION to compete against 15k+
No more QQ about being matched up with newly 6k-8k GSers..
The point about this thread is that, while the current queu function will stay the EXACT as it is now, there will be another (altho might take longer to get in) queu which at least will distinguish more in terms of GS.. Note that if you like ROFLStomp or dont like to wait even a lil bit, the 15k GS can STILL queu for the normal one just like it is now on live.
Player gap between the older player and new has become even larger now with the ToD module and i think it is time to introduce this feature esp for the older player to get in a more likely to balance match
It will result in complaints from 20K+ GS players being matched with 15K GS players (instead of 15K complaining they are matched with 10K GS Players) as well as complaints from 15K GS players saying there's no way to compete unless they pay money (this will be worse because the player pool will be even smaller)
It would result in more QQ than ever. The number one porblem with the matchmaking system exactly as it is is the population pool. Making the population pool smaller will cause the current problems to become worse and thus far more reasons for complaints.
I encourage you to look up power creep and market inflation. Both can explain why your predictions are inaccurate.
I was in a match against a GWF that had a 20k GS. On my team I had two CWs with a 10k GS each. He single-handedly annihilated my entire team. I could kill the rest of his team (I am a 17.3k GF) but I didn't even stand a chance against said GWF. I think I got him down to maybe 70% health one time.
PVP is fried now. My pugging experience this weekend has been the worst it has ever been. Aside from silly PUGs, the problem now lies in the Black Ice overloaded gear and artifact weapons and belts causing huge imbalance. At 17k GS my GF is hopelessly out of its depth when one of these Black Ice artifact guys show up.
it`s either that or longer queues ;p
i`m sure the game will benefit from it and gains more popularity.
Between 20k vs 15 and 15k vs 10, This is not comparable!
Why 15k Players?
- been playing longer and has some experience
- working on his armor to come forward
- have probably a good gear and Enchantments
- Finished probably some "boons
- they have a better Fundamental Basis!
- has a good resistance to survive
- have some knowledge, what to do on a PvP match.
- enjoy the challenge
a 10k newcomer join the PvP:
- just want see what there is
- no resistance to servive
- don't know what to do
- leave probably frustrated the pvp match
- This is absolutely right! thxs for understand me, my english grammar is not the best.
i'll copy this under my thread.
It was purely arbitrary numbers pulled out of thin air. My point, which you completely skipped, was that there will always, as long as the player pool is not large enough to support it, be players who complain they are either facing against overgeared players or are matched alongside undergeared.
Both of those terms are arbitrary and evolve and frankly change by the second. I did some PvP matches today where I was the lowest with 15K GS but other days I have gone and been the highest with the same value. A year ago 10K was some super high gear score ratings and were most definitely not newcomers...
But what you missed, the giant stick of common sense I've been trying to beat you over the head with....The one thing you did not point out in all the meaningless bullet points...
Player Skill.
All of your bullet points rely on player skill being equal. Once player skill is thrown into the mix EVERYTHING you wrote is about as useful as a lead balloon.
A 15K GS player doesn't mean they are skilled. Let me repeat, a 15K GS player doesn't mean they are skilled.
Please go up to the blackboard and write that until it's engraved into your memory.
As I said before, I can stack to 15K GS easily but they won't be good stats for either PvE or PvP. A person very well could have a build so bad either for PvP or just a bad build in general that they are not competive with equal skill and equal gear score.
A person who is not skilled will be competitive with more skilled-lower geared players. When this is taken into consideration, if a person who fits this category joins your fictional utopic queue they will not be competitive even on the average 15K GS level let alone if there are players with either higher gear scores or better skills (guaranteed since, again, the population pool is to small for that to work without large restrictions.
If you want to have a serious discussion your first priority has to be about making balanced matches. This can only occur when you accept people are not equally skilled. Players who are less skilled than the average players will be competitive with lower geared players. Players who are more skilled than the average player will be competitive with higher geared players. This is a fact. It has to be accounted for in any suggestion if you want it to even be considered.
I say, remove leader board from PUG pvp, make another form of competitive PVP only for premades with a leaderboard (like arenas) and leave the rest like free battlegrounds. Make different prizes for both (maybe T1/T2 pvp equipment?)
or "minimum requirements": 1k Tenacity for >16k pvp
I'm just throwing ideas here, we are here for
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
+1
I had a 16k HR on my team with a Perfect Terror and full Profound gear stand and pew-pew the enemy HR. HRs, the good ones, do not stay still and ninja all over the place. This guy just sat in one place and pew-pew'd. And died. Repeatedly. One would expect a 16k HR to be a menace but he was only a menace to his own team.
I've also seen 2 - 3 players with 14 - 16k PVP GS insist on going to our home node and attack the TR. How the heck do you get that much PVP gear not having learnt that more than 1 person vs the TR is a very bad idea?
I've been in a match where we had a combined 86 kills vs the enemy's 25 kills and we lost because apparently the nodes were plagued and nobody wanted to stand on them.