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Compare TR to other classes abilities (can be humorous)
zalathorm1
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 30 Arc User
I play warlock and TR, so can only really compare those two.
Whirlwind of Blades (daily) is outclassed by warlocks Firey Bolt (encounter)
Shocking Execution (daily) is outclassed by warlocks Killing Flame (encounter).
Lurkers Assault is outclassed by Tyrannical Threat.
Path of the Blades and Blitz (encounters) are outclassed by a level 50 rangers split shot (at will), AND warlocks Harrowstorm.
In fact, I can't think of anything on my rogue that I would prefer over a comparable in slot ability on my warlock.
Whirlwind of Blades (daily) is outclassed by warlocks Firey Bolt (encounter)
Shocking Execution (daily) is outclassed by warlocks Killing Flame (encounter).
Lurkers Assault is outclassed by Tyrannical Threat.
Path of the Blades and Blitz (encounters) are outclassed by a level 50 rangers split shot (at will), AND warlocks Harrowstorm.
In fact, I can't think of anything on my rogue that I would prefer over a comparable in slot ability on my warlock.
Post edited by zalathorm1 on
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Ice knife 16-18,5 k dmg on 6 k power CW
Basically any CW skill is 2-5 times better than TR. I think one TR rotation is 1 CW skill while TR uses 3 encounters and CW 4.
Well, i think to balance dmg of same skilled CW and TR you would need like 5 TR's at least.
I honestly think that powers as:Blitz, deft strike, first strike, infiltrator action, impact shot, shocking execution and smoke bomb(pvp shows why) should be deleted to not hurt eyes. If devs can't make normal powers they should at least delete these laughable things. Cause there is no other words describing those skills as those in humorous way. I have 68 points in powers but i used around 60. Why bother upgrading such a ,,powers''.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
our dailies are generally half as strong as other dailies.
i kinda do somewhat well with smoke bomb and dazing strike at the moment. not trying to dps or kill people, but just hinder/stall long enough for the rest of the team to do something. i find that strategy tends to help my team win and control mid which they couldn't otherwise, but i am generally behind on kills/points. skilled players can run from me, but they can't run from my team >.>
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
or i just walk out of it.i have yet to see a tr who deals dmg on me while im caught in smoke bomb.
its only somewhat usefull on ranged whisperknife but not against other mi tr
dazing is even worst. so easy to dodge and dmg is so small its insane .
few days ago dev was streaming and with pvorp and rank 8 he coulnt kill anyone .he had 10 kills 25 death in 3 games.
he used lb which crit 10k on cw, best i saw was 15k on cw and 10k on gwf ,8k crit on bis gf.
so tr offensive abilities are joke at best
i don't use smoke bomb to kill. i use it so my team can catch people in my place since it's not like i can do much else in pvp. it's also more of a surprise factor since 99.9% of the pvp meta expects a perma. they don't know how to handle non-permas
people do counter it at times by dodging right b4 the daze sets in, but they also have habits that help me daze them. hunters like to rush in for their fox shift, gwf's since they are melee, and permas for their flurries. a perma getting dazed mid-stealth tends to kill them outright. gwf's try to act smart by running away after each daze, pop unstoppable after returning, and i just do the same to them or i courage breaker them and solo them to death. hunters, well....i'm not killing a smart hunter by myself due to their ridiculous mobility but some of them do get cocky to melee me and i daze them during their fox shift.
catching a wizard in smoke bomb is probably the easiest thing as long as you make sure you are not being obvious in who you are going after or at least not be seen when you enter stealth. not sure why, but they are the least likely to respond quick enough to avoid smoke bomb.
I feel for these fawkes. They are cut off from reality. They are probably thinking that it is still beta no matter all nerfs and buffs for other classes.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
so lets compare you to same gear and pvp build gwf,gf,cw,hr,sw
i rather have any of this classes in my team fighting in the mid then tr using dazing
yeah lol they will fight to the death to explain how dazing, is awsome.
while other classes have 2,3 times the dmg and 2,3 times the stun with 20 times easyer to land encounter
and still there trs here to come on top with dazing and smoke
so in their mind trs have better abilities nice gg
well, i never said chain-dazes were awesome for hardcore pvp. just decent and decent is enough for the majority of pvp.
double standards is another issue in regards to pvp viability.
depends. generally bottom but sometimes near the top in points. the build isn't meant to get high points, but to stall as long as possible. surviving 10-20 seconds against 3+ people (which is usually enough for my entire team to take a node or revive), luring the entire enemy team to single-mindedly hunt you down, preventing every single melee from fighting efficiently on a node, distracting a wizard for 10+ sec from throwing a single cc at your team, etc.
i actually did agree that our abilities suck in comparison to the ranged classes as i do own a warlock and play exactly like i would on my rogue if i had burst which is a reckless melee charger. still end up high on kills despite dying quicker.
When they nerfed the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of Shocking Execution, that really made me mad. Heck it does less damage than two of my encounter attacks and it is the HIGHEST ranking daily for the TR (MI)!! That is the most ridiculous nerf ever done in my opinion. Insane!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
The HR....
[physical/basic traits]
■ is more nimble and responsive than the TR
■ move/runs faster than the TR
■ has better/more responsive close-range dodge than the TR
■ has faster stamina regen than the TR (= much more nimble active dodge/evade factor than the TR)
[defenses/heals]
■ has better defense/damage reduction than the TR
■ has (on average) much higher deflection factor than the TR
■ has a healing factor that synergizes with the deflection factor, unlike the TR
[melee attacks]
■ has better/easier to hit melees than the TR
■ has higher damaging melees than the TR
■ has superior damage enhancing bleed/DoT components than the TR
[ranged attacks]
■ has superior ranged attacks than the TR
[utilities and buffs]
■ has better self/team buffs than the TR
■ has all sorts of escapes/utilities unlike the TR
■ has higher rate of AP gain than the TR
...the only thing the TR does better, is stealth (...and not to mention HRs have stealth, and two of them now...). So when outside of stealth, the HR outclasses the TR even in a melee fight. On the one hand you have the TR struggling to move around with ungodly amounts of bleed/DoTs on him, miserably failing to land melee at-wills because you can never catch up to the HR wiggling in and out with all the shifting... and the other, you have the HR hitting the TR easily with gap-closing melees, AoE melees, 40' range Careful Attack that procs with GPF ticks and all other sources of damage, switching around melee-ranged modes at whim.
If anything, my opinion is that the shift-type dodge should have been given to TRs, not the HRs. Our dodges should have been the shorter, but more responsive ones the HR currently has -- shift away from enemy attack, but not too far so that you can retaliate immediately after dodging an attack. Instead, we have the long, slow dodge-roll.
The deflection factor, the defenses, the bleed/DoTs... Piercing Blades... all of this should have been the TRs mode of attack. Instead, we have a ranged class dodging around faster than TRs, dealing melee damage with Red Dragon glyphs + Piercing Blades that deals 40% of any damage based on unmitigated levels that is impossible to dodge or deflect. Just basically making it miserable and impossible/impratical to face down a ranged class at melee range, despite the fact that we're supposed to be the better melees.
People speculate all sorts of reasons as to why the HR is so tanky -- but the truth is really simple. Try exchanging the dodges so the HR gets the TR dodge and the TR gets the HR shift, try that for a week and anyone will see just how much difference that makes.
5~6 consecutive dodges until the enemy wastes all its major attacks and encounters, wiggling around and evading while the DoT/bleed factor does all the damage for you.. at the same time 40~50% of the attacks directed at you actually healing you... and they wonder why the HR is so tanky.
...
If anyone wants to know just at what point the TR has been "buffed" enough (if we ever do get a buff), I'd say the indicator would be at the moment where no HR would ever want to risk coming so close to us with Marauders and trying all that slashing and Careful Attack shi*. It's at that point we'll know that we've finally been buffed enough -- at least, in PvP that is.
As it stands, the only thing that the HR needs to evade is the 3rd attack of DF, and the occasional LB crits. Then after that, the HR can just stand in one place and go toe-to-toe with the TR and it would still win easily. Better defenses, better constant self healing and buffing, harder hitting melee encounters complete with a 40% extra damage that is undeflectable/unresisted... at the same time just endless streams of DoT damage from Careful Attack.
Us "melees" can't beat a ranged-oriented hybrid melee at our own game... so it turns out its actually us who need to run away from HRs, hide in stealth, and use our ranged powers to cut them down to lower damage.
Just how embarassing is that?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Branch Lead
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
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