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How to make each class feel FUN again!
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
Module 4 has really made quite a few classes seem unfun. So this thread is more for pure speculation/enojoyment of detailing out what direction you think YOUR class could take to bring the FUN back into the class. I will start with my two classes: GF/GWF and hope others join.
Lets keep the flame off for this one...
Great Weapon Fighter:
There have already been several threads about these things but something I personally think would bring the fun back to the class would be:
Decreasing ALOT of the GWFs encounter damage powers, but adding alot more utility to each power, such as SLOWS/Immobilize and Daze... Removing Stuns and Prones from the class entirely.
Increasing the damage of at wills 2-3x their current amount making this GWF feel like he truly is wielding a great weapon. Right now their damage is only great with all the feats/damage bonuses and combos properly alligned. What I would like to see is MUCH more of their DPS from at wills than encounters. Encounters would be used for positioning enemies within range. things like:
Come and Get it: Increasing its range to 200% of its current and pulling enemies ONTOP of the GWF - making it a viable encounter for a GWf to use, then at will the enemies faces off!
Daring Shout, adding possibly a short "immobilize" such as a root (aoe) while also marking a target.
Just a few examples of options. But make the GWF feel like every swing of that mighty weapon is a massive one that can deal alot of damage.
Guardian Fighter:
The recent changes to this class make it pretty enjoyable, however, some of the "un fun" mechanics to the class are also along the same lines of the GWFs. Right now GFs are pretty solid because their encounters such as lunge or Bull are gap closers. Well, it would be awesome if abilities like Knee Breaker had its "slow" drastically increased so that it could be used INSTEAD of NEEDING gap closers.
Playing a melee class in this game, has been forcing players to lean away from traditional abilities and RELY heavily on gap closers and or prones/stuns just so they can attack. This leads for limited encounter abilities because those "controls" are mandatory.
Giving abilities LIKE ITF - increased run speed, really helps. But it would be great to see some further "range" capabilities on some abilities as well as some movement imparing encounter on enemies making the GF a strong foe to fight in melee without him having to rely on lunge strike and bull charge as the "go-to" because they are the only way to avoid being "kited"
Lets keep the flame off for this one...
Great Weapon Fighter:
There have already been several threads about these things but something I personally think would bring the fun back to the class would be:
Decreasing ALOT of the GWFs encounter damage powers, but adding alot more utility to each power, such as SLOWS/Immobilize and Daze... Removing Stuns and Prones from the class entirely.
Increasing the damage of at wills 2-3x their current amount making this GWF feel like he truly is wielding a great weapon. Right now their damage is only great with all the feats/damage bonuses and combos properly alligned. What I would like to see is MUCH more of their DPS from at wills than encounters. Encounters would be used for positioning enemies within range. things like:
Come and Get it: Increasing its range to 200% of its current and pulling enemies ONTOP of the GWF - making it a viable encounter for a GWf to use, then at will the enemies faces off!
Daring Shout, adding possibly a short "immobilize" such as a root (aoe) while also marking a target.
Just a few examples of options. But make the GWF feel like every swing of that mighty weapon is a massive one that can deal alot of damage.
Guardian Fighter:
The recent changes to this class make it pretty enjoyable, however, some of the "un fun" mechanics to the class are also along the same lines of the GWFs. Right now GFs are pretty solid because their encounters such as lunge or Bull are gap closers. Well, it would be awesome if abilities like Knee Breaker had its "slow" drastically increased so that it could be used INSTEAD of NEEDING gap closers.
Playing a melee class in this game, has been forcing players to lean away from traditional abilities and RELY heavily on gap closers and or prones/stuns just so they can attack. This leads for limited encounter abilities because those "controls" are mandatory.
Giving abilities LIKE ITF - increased run speed, really helps. But it would be great to see some further "range" capabilities on some abilities as well as some movement imparing encounter on enemies making the GF a strong foe to fight in melee without him having to rely on lunge strike and bull charge as the "go-to" because they are the only way to avoid being "kited"
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The rogue was my main character and I actually have 5 of them but it is now so boring to play and our damage is terrible making even daily quests slow as hell that I barely even log onto them anymore.
Heres my 2 cents;
Obviously, I will be a little biased here towards my favoured class, but I am open minded.
We need to end perma stealth and make the rogue an actual fighter.
We need higher damaging encounters and escape methods that also deal damage.
Higher deflect chance and more hitpoints.
Add resistance ignored to the dexterity ability score, and possibly cc resistance.
Smoke bomb needs to be instant cc with a larger aoe and for to deal damage or lower DR because it is far to easy to escape or walk out of for a 15 second encounter(should be more like thorn ward if you ask me)
Impact shot - make it more like lashing blade by dealing MUCH higher damage but only 1 or 2 charges. The less charges the more power.
When the game was released rogues were supposed to be a single target dps class, but now everything but the dc and possibly the gf can deal more single target damage.
To stay alive in pvp we use 2 or 3 encounters and rely on 1 at will and a hard hitting daily, shadow strike(500 damage or something) and impossible to catch(0 damage) are almost always on the bar, but as of mod 3 and 4 it's usually 3 encounters, third one being bait n switch(zero damage). Get rid of the perma stealth and give us escape methods that deal damage, or powers that make players think twice about attacking us, something along the lines of a gf's supremacy of steel but not to that extent or length of time, in the sense that, if you attack me you are going to take damage back, an eye for an eye, like a dexterous reaction, we are agile after all.
Change bait n switch to actually look like the player and not a black silhouette, make it so you can make your bait n switch target a player so they think its the real rogue, while we sneak up in stealth and damage them, if we need to come out of stealth to deal the damage so be it, as long as we can survive coming out of stealth.
Give more charges to cloud of steel, 8 is no use in the way the current game is. The problem when cloud of steel got nerfed was players had 20k hitpoints and no tenacity, rogues had 50% crit chance running perfect vorpals and overrun crit feat making almost every other dagger crit big. Thats not an issue anymore with the average control wizard having 35k hitpoints(fully decked out pvp cw have over 40k).
3 newly reworked paths;
path 1 - survivalist high damage and good survivability(high deflect, deflect severity, faster run speed temp hitpoints, some damage feats, dodges)
path 2 - trickster excellent at escaping enemies,stunning foes, more dodges, sneaky stuff not damage focused)
path 3 - executioner massive damage with much lower survivablity (basic survival skills like our 2 dodges but insane single target damage dealing feats)
I will add more later.
By the way...
How to make CW fun again: Bring the old Storm Spell back, make EotS have 15% chance to proc and rework Assailing Force to make it increase the effectiveness of Arcane Mastery by 3%, making it 6% more damage for each stack.
This change to Assailing Force will also make Arcane Presence (a dead class feature) be useful again.
I 100% agree that M4 is no where near as fun, primarily due to the mechanics introduced that require no skill to reap enormous benefits from. I think I did at least a few PvP matches per day of M3, sometimes even 15+ in one sitting, purely because of how fun it was despite playing a class that could have used some love in PvP. Now, I haven't entered PvP in over two weeks and log on only to do dailies or to attempt farming the new skirmish and generally don't stay for very long. That's right, even though my class is now 'OP' in PvP -- I hate it.
Here's what would make the class fun again, imho.
Control Wizard:
Shard of the Endless Avalanche (RIP
Storm Spell - A passive ability that provides more damage than an encounter. The change, which doubled damage and proc chance, introduced the easy mode, overpowered, and skill-less game play that you now encounter against CWs. Literally no one asked for this change in the preview feedback and everyone knew it would be as game breaking as it was originally with 35% proc chance and ability to proc on the application of chill stacks. It's still too much. Keep the proc chance and halve the damage to where it was during M3, return the damage boost by buffing single target encounters (or shard
Assailing Force - Additional skill-less damage procing off of other damage with a tiny cooldown and high proc chance. Allbeit way more useful in PvP than the last Thaum capstone, it provides too much damage too frequently for the zero skill required to reap its benefit. I would rather this capstone be like a Rampaging Madness v2.0 where dealing damage to or CCing one enemy a certain number of times then buffs your damage against them by a considerable amount, making it fun to try reach your stack cap and requiring more effort. Essentially anything requiring more than what it currently does would be better.
Orb of Imposition - A 75% control boost results in CC times that almost doubled regardless of whether you are Thaum, Rene, or Oppres and compounds the skill-less play further as it is much easier to CC lock someone. The passive itself should provide at most a 35% control boost, while the Oppres tree or capstone should provide another 35% in order to reduce the CC available to damage intensive trees. Thaum should not be able to damage more effectively and CC as effectively as Oppres, which is the way it currently stands.
Eye of the Storm - An auto proc yielding 100% crit chance for 6 seconds every 20 seconds... more skill-less easy mode that allows CWs to ignore their crit stat and one rotation other players when unloading encounters. To me, this essentially gives what the Renegade once was, a bursty crit damage dealer, to everyone. This passive should be a little less active in creating burst and be returned to somewhere along the lines of its state in M3 but with a reduced proc chance or short internal cooldown. It should be looked at as a way to score a guaranteed crit on a few at-wills, one encounter or daily in your arsenal, not your entire rotation.
Teleport - It's no fun when there's a path animation behind my teleport, showing exactly where I'm going. When I think of a wizard teleporting, I picture someone blinking quickly from one point to another with no tell as to where they were heading, sometimes from point to point in rapid succession. Teleport would be way more fun this way and more so if I could chain multiple teleports so as to blink behind someone and then back to my original position very quickly. What I'm getting at here is a reduction in the time used to execute a teleport (smaller dodge window) in addition to a reduction in the time between finishing a teleport and using another teleport or power (smaller idle window). Another fun feature (maybe a heroic feat) would be to have a mirage of your character appear for a few seconds in your original position when teleporting, which restores a small amount of stamina when struck.
Renegade Tree - I wrote a fun haiku about this feat tree.
Big orange numbers are fun
Buff the renegade.
The Renegade feat path either needs an entirely new direction, and probably a new name, or some changes focused on bringing back its original play style. Increase the crit severity provided by Phantasmal Destruction, increase the proc chance of Nightmare Wizardry slightly, incorporate feats like 'your combat advantage damage is increased by 2/4/6/8/10%' and 'your crit chance is increased by 2/4/6/8/10%', and otherwise restore the crit damage fun to this tree.
tl;dr
Give me meatball back
I miss teabagging people
I'll have fun again
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GWF damage on encounters should not be touched, we ended up with 2k base dmg skills i do rather have more dmg on them than utility cause whats the point of CC/slows/immobilizes etc when u do 0 dmg?
Cuz he is k in pvp .
Why not add some nice back stab ability to him like cripple in cap stone or disable/Disarm in another cap s stone and the last blindness ofc proc on encouter dmg with lets say 10 % ?
Then they maybe dont need soo much steath.
Or he can open up a second chest in DD or skirmish ?
Or find some hidden Tresure chest ?
Make her own traps ?
IF even 2 of those idea are implemented any one will want at least one TR in her PT .
How the f... care if you are not the best dps if you can open up two chest (faster run yes lets say you make 25 min CN but you can find another source of loot ).
But for DC i have only 1 good idea Celestrial Summon like SW have .
GF and GWF are fine the tank and the dps .(i dont need any change mybe give back the encounter dmg what was taken from GWF)
CW is fine in my eyes .
HR = Chuk.N they are good in pvp but hard to fine a good HR for pvp cuz little Chuks want only kikk others ***.
I have one ranged and one combat HR and i can say ranged is a pure DPS class.(no need rework)
SW dps and support but i think they are fine too.
Well, my only response would be if your HITTING 2k on each swing with sure strike, critting for 3500+ I dont think damage will be much a problem.
4 swings of sure strike with only just 1 crit would be well over 10k damage. Makes fighting a GWF in melee range a BIG risk.
I actually think encounters SHOULD hit only about as hard at your at wills, and at wills need to be beefed up ALOT. My idea was to take the exact damage formula as "crushing surge" for GFs and slide that onto Sure Strike. My GF hits for 1400-1500. So my GWF would hit for 2k pretty easy. This would also be true if they made STR = 2% damage (up from 1%).
Just a thought
TRs already have a backstab ability. Its called Stealth + Lashing Blade. Not that they care anymore, but it used to rock at some point. Good times! :rolleyes:
I dont talked about x2 x3 x4 x5 dmg i talked about some nice addon on backstab.
Original after epic class Rouge can chose from different backstab extra why not add some of them to cap stone.
I still think what should happen to Lashing Blade is the stealth bonus = 100% CD reduction (meaning CD is cut in half) rather than 100% crit chance.
Boosts the DPS potential of the skill and makes it a little less bursty and more reliable for PVP builds.
I agree though, eps was needed because of pvp whining and in pop it is perma or die,
Pave the single dps isn't high enough to compensate for the lack of aoe dps.
I play my tr because it's fun, but I farm with cw
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Hell no...
Don't touch the current Stealthed version of Lashing Blade.
it's perfect as it is.
make the game fun consists in three factors (The classes concept is relative).
A - add mechanical dynamic .
B - enhancing powers of little use. not refer to any unbalanced super buff, but there are certain rotations that could be more interesting.
C - harder Content . preferably by adding the possibility to try soil the Epic dungeon and add "legendary" version of the old content.