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DC. works for Domination.
silverkelt
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
For some reason, I keep hearing the 'ol DC doesnt work for Domination PVP.. this is utterly untrue, I just brought mine out of retirment for a few matches to give you a screenie.
Now that doesnt mean, I wouldnt mind some new toys to play with, some general feat reworks ect. But to say its not viable, just isnt correct.
My playstyle , build took hundreds of post tenacity matches to figure out, but you can definitely be on the winning side, most of the time (probably over 60%-70% unless you have a suped up premade to go against.
Im nothing as well, 15k HUMAN dc, specced AC, Tanky built, I use Exult, HW, SB , Astral Shield, DG , dailies Flame Strike, HG. Class Anointed Armour, Anointed Holy Symbol, or Healers Lore.
You typically only lose when you hit a team with enough wits, dps to take you down faster then you can sustain. Which should be ever team, but honestly half the time, you break the will of the opposing team, they could win, but they dont want deaths.
This is easy, TRADE your deaths for match win, you will win most of the time this way.
I have won 16/20 matches this way.
Now that doesnt mean, I wouldnt mind some new toys to play with, some general feat reworks ect. But to say its not viable, just isnt correct.
My playstyle , build took hundreds of post tenacity matches to figure out, but you can definitely be on the winning side, most of the time (probably over 60%-70% unless you have a suped up premade to go against.
Im nothing as well, 15k HUMAN dc, specced AC, Tanky built, I use Exult, HW, SB , Astral Shield, DG , dailies Flame Strike, HG. Class Anointed Armour, Anointed Holy Symbol, or Healers Lore.
You typically only lose when you hit a team with enough wits, dps to take you down faster then you can sustain. Which should be ever team, but honestly half the time, you break the will of the opposing team, they could win, but they dont want deaths.
This is easy, TRADE your deaths for match win, you will win most of the time this way.
I have won 16/20 matches this way.
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I don't think it is the win/lose record that's the issue with the DC. After all, this is more or less reliant on your group make up v the opposition standard.
It's not a sudden revelation to come along with a build that will keep the opposition occupied, the biggest complaint is that the resultant role is UTTERLY BORING.
I don't want to speak for everyone who roles a cleric, but my aim was to have a character that could effectively contribute through good healing - not a delaying punch bag until death, rinse and repeat.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Raist Torilrocker | Dwarf | DCWaterdeep Dungeon & Salvage LLC
http://www.twitch.tv/raist718/profile
think of a fresh DC with 10 GS, if you need to die 10 time to win he need to constantly die for nothing
if DC go with party that stay together it works great, for party DC can still heal more then average class can do damage (if you combine the all party heal and DR)
the main problem is facing good groups with similar GS
they don't all go on 2, and then it can be hard for DC
1:1 we cant do a lot, honestly we cant even hold a point (against similar GS)
and if point 2 doesn't have tanky GF / GWF your heals become irrelevant and at the end DC is worthless
there is big problem in icewind PVP area, we just cant stay alive against other class (not talking about winning, just try to stay alive)
I don't mind to die to win, using the way you describe, but in the end I don't feel satisfied. I like to heal, save people, reduce the damage they take.
Simply I think I did a mistake thinking that I would heal in Neverwinter Online, like I healed in Neverwinter Nights 2 with my cleric.
Now, after I got so much things and met some cool friends, I'm abit attached to the game.
But maybe in future if I will be forced to keep debuffing and multipling by the majority of the community I will just switch to another game.
ALL of my toons went though adjusments and I know better then go in with some blue HAMSTER gear on, NONE of my toons started anyting lower then a full set of t1 and 2-3 of the sharandar/dread boons, except my first of course.
Even with this, your around 12k, your just a sitting duck. I find it starting to be easier around 13k on every toon now and around 14-15 your doing "ok" my 16k gwf is still a sitting duck for 18kers.. so it never stops, really.
New MOD 4 meta, will have 20k+ on nodes.
I think they need to start implement separate queues or putting a minimum GS and boon Total to get in.
ITs for both sides, not just one, a 8k noobs will just get rolled in the next few months.. heck my 15kers will get rolled in the next few months.
AVerage gear scores will hit somewhere in the 15k+ range, so you will need 17+ now just to be viable enough to play in all honesty. This is for average pugs, not just premades.
I think everybody agrees that we have a lot of crappy/usless feats that could be reworked and that would improve the class, possibly by allowing for more build diversity.
If you find the class boring I guess the playstyle isn't for you, not really much to do there, but it doesn't mean that DC's aren't useful. I personally don't mind but yeah a 2 hour premade can get a bit tedious after a while, especially as a DC.
As a DC you pretty much just support your teammates by providing some heals, buffs and debuffs (primarly DR buffs) and by moving around strategically to assist in cap/defending nodes. Because of this you're very reliant on your teammates and their relative gear level, skill level and tactis. IMO the only real way to evaluate PVP is based on premades because pugs bring in way to many variables, even group comp can play a big part in how the match goes.
In terms of pugs its just a toss up for who you get on your team and who's against you and you can easily lose even with better geared players on your team because they refuse to backcap or whatever. Since there's usually not much of a defined strat, and poor comunication in pug matches it makes it that much harder to fullfill your support role effectively. I pretty much never pug with my DC because it's pretty much just like using RNG to determine what happens and it's too hard to directly influence the outcome.
Part of what makes pug matches terrible is the que system. It doesn't take GS into account at all and group comp only minimally, or maybe it simply limits it to a max of 2x of same class per match. Either way having a 7k GS guy in your group is never fun, nor are some of the comp matchups you end up with, but you as often end up with some 15k GS guy who's completely not set up for PVP, using some usless combination of powers, or simply has no idea how PVP Dom matches seem to work. Unfortunately the more parameters for the que the longer it takes, which is the primary reason it is how it is, they try to keep que times as short as possible.
Also, the way you go about winning Dom matches is somewhat contrary to how the ingame score system works and to how you go up/down the ladder, so that doesn't help encourage people to actually play well, it just encourages them to chase points.
I think finally it's worth pointing out that it's harder and harder for new players/chars to be competitive against better geared opponents because of the increasing amount of boons, that take time to acheive and the increasing barrier to aquiring top level gear such as high rank enchantments, wep and armor enchants and artifacts. The way the economy seems to be going it doesn't seem like it's going to get any easier either
In terms of actually winning a match, It is totally viable and any average geared pug will benefit from having a averaged geared DC sitting around node two. You will almost always win the match.
Just pulled my #s on these twenty matches, when I say exchange deaths for wins, Im not saying every match takes 10 deaths, most of the time you break the will of the other team pretty quick.
This is my average on these 20 matches.
Kills = 2.4 per match
Deaths = 3.65 per match
Assists = 20.5 per match
This was with a winning percentage of 80%, now that doesn't mean I would always float so high, but getting 60% plus is probably achievable.
Even though I agreed with most of your post, this is a major concern of mine, its just not the booning and gearing, everyone can do that.. in about 60 days give or take from start, ITS the completely out of control ecomomy right now, there is just no way a new player can afford anything at even a half reasonable price. Ive been trying to save up for another normal plague so I can make a greater, and Im just chasing and chasing the AD to get to it, It goes higher and higher and higher all the time. The exploits, out of control inflation, just cannot sustain newer players, I barely can stand it and have been here for 7 or 8 months now.
Indeed. In mod 4 it seems like it will actually be possible to farm some AD but if prices continue to push upwards because of lack of items/regents/refining points, etc that are available in the economy it may not matter much. The AD/refining point ratio for say upgrading artifacts now is getting extremly expensive, and for enchants it's even harder because the options on viable regents is even smaller.
I have a P.Vorpal sitting in my bank that I'm not using. I think it's pretty telling that when I crafter that it cost me something like 3-5M and now I could easily sell it for 15M and it wouldn't surprise me to see them going for 25M in mod 4, with the refocus on PVE etc.
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When I posted it it was during mod 3.. pre tenacity is when the DC was at its best, but it was ok, after that until the end of mod 3.
In Mod 4 DC is actually worse off, but alot of classes are due to the glyphs, but now, a GF can just sit on node forever and a DC cant do much about it, a CW can melt yo face in a few seconds.
ITs ok.. just each mod isnt as well for the DC as the last.. and its been that way from some time. I came after mod 1 was released but before mod 2 was, so I dont know about before that.