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A hardcore MMOer: State of the game
vedran541
Member Posts: 199 Arc User
BTW, this is not an "i quit" post, this is just my opinion about the game.
I played World of Warcraft since release in 2004, high end PvE and PvP. I had to take a break because it became really hardcore and it got in the way of my real life too much. After a few years the urge to play an MMO, meet some online friends, have some late night fun was getting to me and i started looking for new MMOs. Thats when i found Neverwinter.
The game started really nice, leveling was fun and fast. And to be honest that was as much fun as i have had besides some rare PvP matches. After getting completely addicted to my character and obsessed with logging on, i started to see no reason for it anymore after i realized what was going on.
This game is a free to play model, and i understand that the game needs to make some money for it to work. But the amount of income in this game has from its players who buy ZEN is insane and much larger then any other subscription-model game. It made me wonder, even after module 1, if they were in it for the long run, or if they wanted to make the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time. I've suspected the answer for a year and it gets more and more confirmed with every module that comes out.
Sharandar boons took a long time to get, it wasn't bad, since it was the only dailies that needed to be done. After module 2 more boon farming made it to the game and it hasn't changed with module 3 and 4. For me as a player, it looks like they have completely given up on keeping players in the game by content and instead have to give us grind-fests to keep us in the game as long as possible. Given this that many old players, from beta, has quit the game. So for new players the grind is even longer and darker with no light at the end of the tunnel, and the road to the wallet gets more and more appealing.
The life at high end PvP is getting really boring. With all rank 10s and Legendary artifacts there are not many guilds beeing able to compete at that level. There are 3/4 guilds tops who can muster up a team for a 5 vs 5 premade with the gear that competitive PvPers have. But, the competitive players with perfect gear and slowly quitting and leaving, and the amount of grinding and money spending new players have to do, to get on that level is getting impossible. I cant even imagine what kind of rich guy you have to be, to get rank 10s, perfects and legendary artifacts today. It is just impossible for any new player to get to that level anymore. Competition is getting slim. Also, grinding for boons will take a lifetime to catch up.
The elo rating is something that needed to be implemented even if its not completely working, but at least its implemented and improving (i hope). And it is not working because its a single player rating in a team player game. What should be implemented imo is a team (2v2, 3v3, 5v5) and the elo rating should be team based where you que up with your registered team and against other teams, or que solo in domination against other solo players.
The gameplay and combat system is basically what has kept me in the game for so long. The PvP is really fun if i haven't played it for a while. I have been out from this game for over a month and i recently came back to have great fun with my friends, for one day. There really is not anyone to play against, in PvP at least. Fighting mobs and doing dailies gets pretty boring as well, because the mobs are pretty much the same AI with less or more HP. I've even stopped invoking really close to the angel of protection, i dont even want the **** thing anymore. Why would I? For PvE the stone is the best pet. For PvP there are no pets, and should not be pets. Unless you look at open world PvP which pretty much is dead, and as i predicted. It was fun for a week and then it slowly died. Because everything they said about open world PvP and beeing able to do 1v1s with your friends and guilds vs guilds, is pretty much "impossible" and a big struggle since you cant chose the instance you are in.
The "high end" PvE, is really not high end anymore. I have to admit that it was a challenge before module 1 when the players had 10k -> 12k gs tops. It really was a challenge. Our damage was lower, our survivability was lower and everything was harder and more "fun". Yes i wrote "fun" like this, because the fun stops after doing the same dungeon 15 times. But as players now have over 17, 18, 19k gs there really is no more challenge. Because the bosses are the same, the mobs are the same, the content is the same, but the characters has developed a lot with more massive damage, more boons, more stats etc. you get the picture. While the content is pretty much stale, with the challenge being bigger with the more amount of adds thrown your way. So all in all, i haven't touched PvE for over half a year.
I would even start with the economy because everyone can see what is happening. The gap between old and new players gets even bigger and new players will never in their life catch up to old players. With module 4 the gap gets even bigger. More grinding? Refining weapons? Refining belts? Refining new artifacts? I have to say, as cleaver business model this is, it wont last in the long run as your players are depleting at the speed of light. I really feel sorry for any player that starts @ module 4.
So what is there for me to do in the game? Level a new character? I have all classes on lvl 60. Do some dungeons? Why? So i can finish them with ease and not earn any AD at all ? No thanks. Do some PvP? Well that is exactly what i am doing because that is where the real challenge is, but as i said, more and more players are leaving, and the competition gets less and less with new players never being able to catch up to the old players.
Now as i started logging on pretty much everyday again, im starting to really struggle to find a reason to log on the next day. So i ask you, what is keeping you in the game?
I played World of Warcraft since release in 2004, high end PvE and PvP. I had to take a break because it became really hardcore and it got in the way of my real life too much. After a few years the urge to play an MMO, meet some online friends, have some late night fun was getting to me and i started looking for new MMOs. Thats when i found Neverwinter.
The game started really nice, leveling was fun and fast. And to be honest that was as much fun as i have had besides some rare PvP matches. After getting completely addicted to my character and obsessed with logging on, i started to see no reason for it anymore after i realized what was going on.
This game is a free to play model, and i understand that the game needs to make some money for it to work. But the amount of income in this game has from its players who buy ZEN is insane and much larger then any other subscription-model game. It made me wonder, even after module 1, if they were in it for the long run, or if they wanted to make the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time. I've suspected the answer for a year and it gets more and more confirmed with every module that comes out.
Sharandar boons took a long time to get, it wasn't bad, since it was the only dailies that needed to be done. After module 2 more boon farming made it to the game and it hasn't changed with module 3 and 4. For me as a player, it looks like they have completely given up on keeping players in the game by content and instead have to give us grind-fests to keep us in the game as long as possible. Given this that many old players, from beta, has quit the game. So for new players the grind is even longer and darker with no light at the end of the tunnel, and the road to the wallet gets more and more appealing.
The life at high end PvP is getting really boring. With all rank 10s and Legendary artifacts there are not many guilds beeing able to compete at that level. There are 3/4 guilds tops who can muster up a team for a 5 vs 5 premade with the gear that competitive PvPers have. But, the competitive players with perfect gear and slowly quitting and leaving, and the amount of grinding and money spending new players have to do, to get on that level is getting impossible. I cant even imagine what kind of rich guy you have to be, to get rank 10s, perfects and legendary artifacts today. It is just impossible for any new player to get to that level anymore. Competition is getting slim. Also, grinding for boons will take a lifetime to catch up.
The elo rating is something that needed to be implemented even if its not completely working, but at least its implemented and improving (i hope). And it is not working because its a single player rating in a team player game. What should be implemented imo is a team (2v2, 3v3, 5v5) and the elo rating should be team based where you que up with your registered team and against other teams, or que solo in domination against other solo players.
The gameplay and combat system is basically what has kept me in the game for so long. The PvP is really fun if i haven't played it for a while. I have been out from this game for over a month and i recently came back to have great fun with my friends, for one day. There really is not anyone to play against, in PvP at least. Fighting mobs and doing dailies gets pretty boring as well, because the mobs are pretty much the same AI with less or more HP. I've even stopped invoking really close to the angel of protection, i dont even want the **** thing anymore. Why would I? For PvE the stone is the best pet. For PvP there are no pets, and should not be pets. Unless you look at open world PvP which pretty much is dead, and as i predicted. It was fun for a week and then it slowly died. Because everything they said about open world PvP and beeing able to do 1v1s with your friends and guilds vs guilds, is pretty much "impossible" and a big struggle since you cant chose the instance you are in.
The "high end" PvE, is really not high end anymore. I have to admit that it was a challenge before module 1 when the players had 10k -> 12k gs tops. It really was a challenge. Our damage was lower, our survivability was lower and everything was harder and more "fun". Yes i wrote "fun" like this, because the fun stops after doing the same dungeon 15 times. But as players now have over 17, 18, 19k gs there really is no more challenge. Because the bosses are the same, the mobs are the same, the content is the same, but the characters has developed a lot with more massive damage, more boons, more stats etc. you get the picture. While the content is pretty much stale, with the challenge being bigger with the more amount of adds thrown your way. So all in all, i haven't touched PvE for over half a year.
I would even start with the economy because everyone can see what is happening. The gap between old and new players gets even bigger and new players will never in their life catch up to old players. With module 4 the gap gets even bigger. More grinding? Refining weapons? Refining belts? Refining new artifacts? I have to say, as cleaver business model this is, it wont last in the long run as your players are depleting at the speed of light. I really feel sorry for any player that starts @ module 4.
So what is there for me to do in the game? Level a new character? I have all classes on lvl 60. Do some dungeons? Why? So i can finish them with ease and not earn any AD at all ? No thanks. Do some PvP? Well that is exactly what i am doing because that is where the real challenge is, but as i said, more and more players are leaving, and the competition gets less and less with new players never being able to catch up to the old players.
Now as i started logging on pretty much everyday again, im starting to really struggle to find a reason to log on the next day. So i ask you, what is keeping you in the game?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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it will take you next 2,3 years of high pace instance changes
countless beholders with HAMSTER drops
milions of inv plz lf beh ab
and you have the nerve to say whats keeping us in the game
pffffff.
but seriously for new players it doesnt look good
i wanted to lvl warlock but aint happening
to much ref points needed and i aint using rank 4 milion time over
Personally I still find the game enjoyable, however this is the first MMO that I've played. I would not consider myself a "hardcore gamer".
I suppose if I had high expectations of what an MMO "ought to be" then I might be disappointed. Neverwinter does seem rather simplistic at times. But I didn't, I like it because even though I had never played an MMO before, I could pick up the combat system quite easily and have fun.
And if you want a challenge, try playing a PVP CW
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I too came from WoW and played over the entire WotLK as mage, and grinded endlessly for my gear and mounts and all that. I was guildleader of a guild of around 70 active players and with the DKP management and all that it was really a job. As Ulduar came out I had the first two pieces of the new t8 of the entire server and later I had all pieces of the best gear in ICC, only 1 ring was missing. Anyways, PvE went more and more boring and the real challenge was PvP against real players. I did this as frostmage over 4 years. Nonetheless I stopped as Cata came out.
I am playing this game since beta (however not constantly. I started again shortly before module 1). What I really like in this game is the combat system - if you ignore for a moment the weakness of CWs in regards of 'control'. There are no long casting times which I like alot. (Even if this means that it is often pure luck to avoid/counter a spell of an opponent).
What keeps me in the game still? Well, I see the nice storyline during leveling and because of this I think the dev's generally have the potential and skill to make a great end-game. At this point I also want to say that the new skirmish with kessel is very nice. And I want to thank the devs! you gave me much enjoyable hours. So based on what I see, we can basically have alot more than just PE. The game can support a much larger world with more cities and stories going on, more fitting for the DnD experience.
I admit that it is now a difficult situation. We have 17k-19k GS toons which literally crush through every solo content. If future modules provide a challenge for these toons, new players can not finish the content.
I think that Cryptic must step back a bit and dont try to make money with too many ZEN items which have a direct affect on the gameplay. They could make enough money with cosmetic stuff already. The point is that old players like me who like the DnD lore play this game only because of the lore. If everything turns into a shopping mall, then it all doesnt feel right anymore. So what I am hoping for is that we will actually see more cities and more dungeons to explore, either solo or as group. Perhaps also for lower levels.
Another point is that the foundy should be made more attractive. For example by letting the playerbase create PvP maps.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I agree it caters more to the casual gamer. But then again, what has the casual gamer to do after all his boons, gear and enchants are acquired?
Will do
For me, i don't see the reason even doing dailies anymore. If i want another perfect enchant. It will cost me around 800 days of doing dailies (that is if my RAD is capped each day). It just seems too much and impossible to acquire without spending more real life money then already spent.
It cannot be taken seriously, even though the combat is fun. because of the enchant/gear system, its a twinks game. Which alienates alot of players who like PvP (A PvPer has to grind/pay to be able to play at the same level? to need so much commitment to play PvP they might as well play another game)
PvE
theres alot rough around the edges, firstly the pets thing you mention Cryptic put resources into making these pets but we never use them because of augment stones (crappy AI sure, but if we could use (without losing the stone) then we would still take them out most of the time).
Dungeons introduced in mod 1-3 have such a limited/no loot table, new sets they introduce appear like they were designed by a different developer, no one wants them. All this new content amounts to very little, people run the T2s far more than the others, and who does T1s? They need to put someone to work on all the loot and content, redesign armor sets so they change the playstyle of the class (e.g. a ranger set that boosts certain melee skills, a Cleric set increases their only strength when they heal someone etc etc)
After playing for a year I dont think i have even done all the T1s, even on my first character i jumped straight into T2s because no one does T1s and now its too easy to even bother with. Just bump up its difficulty and make T1 the same level as T2 or something.
There is also tons of new content in terms of foundry, but alot of the better authors have left. Why? because its impossible to find decent content, the listings show the same HAMSTER all the time, theres no filter system/categories. Recommend options, there are people out there who like to jump on and experience a custom made story/quest that is unlike anything you get from traditional questing but how do they find this stuff?
This new module introduces a new dungeon, which is just the same 1 directional map with lots of enemies dropped along the way until you get to the boss, and probably does not have a loot table either. For those who played wow, i wish there was more dungeons that felt like dungeons, like blackrock depths/spire. ones that have multiple paths and optional bosses that have loot too and that game is a decade old.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Well it takes a while. I don't have all of my gear, boons and enchants yet and Mod 4 is almost here.
Believe it or not, people even today struggle with certain T1 dungeons, Mad Dragon and Gray Wolf in particular. I have even seen parties wipe on Cragmire Crypts final boss(!).
the economy in game is a catastrophe!! well done
and cryptic will still real money for packs ?! lol.
such a good game comes to the end, this is sad,
it was fun whit NW but probably its time to move on-
they start deleting all bad comment, but the problems in game will not change!!
I kinda lost all hope when i saw that some of the gear will consume refining points. With that, the drastic class changes, means different builds, different BiS gear etc, it means even more refining points needed then already spent, alot more. It feels like the AD already spent was for nothing and farming new will just take too long.
Well better gear coming out always happens in a MMORPG - gear progression is a major point of the game.....
Also the new equipment artifacts can use the RP from other level 60 equipment, so your enchant drops aren't in any danger of being consumed by them....
Oh no i get that. But usually its farming a dungeon or farming pvp until you get the new "loot". But in this case, its a few years with doing dailies or spending real life money (again).
Okay I see now what you mean - you feel that you can't catch up with players who benefited from past exploits no matter how hard you try unless you shell out lots of cash.
Yeah, that is fair enough. I figured out that a new player, even assuming they managed to get the maximum 24 000 AD a day in refined AD, would now require over a year just to get one single top-tier weapon enchant. And then there are armour and the 10+ other standard enchants, needing to refine artifacts, etc......
Pros:
- Gameplay is great, it feels far more "physical" than everything else I tried.
- D&D lore is slowly creeping in more and more and with the new Wizards/Hasbro strategy of having alignement across the board of the D&D brand we´ll see more stuff coming in.
- 4 Modules in a year. Whatever you may say about them, new content is steadily coming.
- Visuals: Dwarven Valley PvP area is a marvel. A small army of 10 characters galloping through it to clash against a group of enemies in the middle of the area has been the most exciting thing I´ve see in any MMO. Sitting on the top of Kelvin´s Cairn and looking down while my Owl made its noise, almost made me feel the cold through the monitor.
Cons:
- I would like companions to have more impact. I think giving an augment and a separate companion would be a good idea. And Ioun Stones are head-slot items in D&D....
- AD inflation is an issue for newcomers. I hope they can fix it now that they identified the latest exploit. Anyway it will not stop me from starting up a Warlock as soon as it comes live.
I don´t think that "winning" the game should be the goal. I prefer to take my time, enjoy the content, help my fellow guildies (just started a new guild with some friends a few weeks ago, plenty to do). Running for perfects and R10s just leaves you with burnout when you reach the top end.
Some suggestions:
- increase the community experience. Guilds are underdeveloped. I saw a very interesting thread about Guildhalls and personal homes. It will cater more to RPers out there who are just piling up at the Mask. It will also increase the sense of accomplishment in a guild.
- make class specific Companions that have synergy with certain classes and that can survive in PvE.
- use existing maps for Arena PvP fights 20vs20. Imagine using the Dvarwen Valley full map as a 20vs20 PvP map without nodes and with points given to the whole team for kills and a fixed time duration. At the end of the fight the winning side gets some map related prizes (like some of the area currencies to reduce grind, black ice, enchantments, a random chance to get a purple item or a refining stone/ward) and the losing side a lower premium. Make it so that this kind of prize can be taken only once a day so that it can reduce the "dailies" grind but it will not replace the campaign.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80