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personal responses to the CW NERF in Module 4
xultrakill
Member Posts: 63 Arc User
Magic Missile:It is used for buffing, reasonable decrease in damage.
Chilling Cloud: This at-will is rubbish and it still is after the extremely limited buff.
Scorching Burst: From completely trash to decent AoE.
Chill Strike: It is a little overpowered in killing small mobs.
Conduit of Ice:The nerf tickles.
Entangling Force: I don't see anything good or bad about it.
Icy Terrain: It's still not good as a damage skill nor control skill.
Sudden Storm: The nerf tickles, it's still the highest damage skill in the game It has reasons to be the highest DPS skill, the range is too short for a ranged class, and the time it takes for the bolts to attack is too long.
Ray of Enfeeblement: It wasn't good as a single target skill, and now it's even worse.
Steal Time: No one use this skill for damage, and the casting time is too longAt lease it's buffed.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: Even nerfed, it's still one of the greatest damage skill in the gameGreat crowd control increase, it's now the best tab skill.
Fanning the Flame: this skill shouldn't be nerfed, the damage is average and it has no crowd control.
Arcane Singularity: It is a little too op, though the nerf only makes parties want more CW. From at least one to at least 2, which is a good thing for us CWs.
Oppressive Force: The nerf tickles.
Ice Knife: The nerf tickles.
Furious Immolation: At lease it's a buff though no one use it.
Eye of the Storm: A good nerf, from over 33% crit to less than 15% crit
In conclusion of the skill changes, most of the changes are reasonable. The nerfing amount may sounds scary but they only made CW from overpowered to average. However the 'average' is not quite average enough. (pls read on to see the 'average' I would like).
Something I think (and I hope the devs can see this and consider):
The reason that CW is OP is because CW can do damage AND control.
The nerf, had decreased both damage and control by decreasing damage and increasing cool down.
This makes CW average in everything, but not good in anything. A TR can out damage us, both fighters can control mobs better than us.
So, what I would like to see is: a choice for CW to become either towards damage ortowards control. Thus diminishing the OP-ness of having both good damage and controls, and satisfying all players who wanted more control and all players who wanted damage.
The way to do it, at least I think this is the only way, is to split every skill. Paragons only provide limited variation in class but unable to fully satisfy the choosing of control or damage.
How splitting the skills work: at tire one, each skill will have the very weak basic powers, and there are two branches to upgrade it: one branch which upgrades the damage, and another branch which upgrades the control power. Thus both damage and control can not exist at the same time. Feasts for those skills will show two buffs, one applies to the damage branch and one applies to the control branch. If the skill is tire one then both buffs apply (because tire one skills are weak in both damage and control).
How's that sounds, at least I like it
Chilling Cloud: This at-will is rubbish and it still is after the extremely limited buff.
Scorching Burst: From completely trash to decent AoE.
Chill Strike: It is a little overpowered in killing small mobs.
Conduit of Ice:The nerf tickles.
Entangling Force: I don't see anything good or bad about it.
Icy Terrain: It's still not good as a damage skill nor control skill.
Sudden Storm: The nerf tickles, it's still the highest damage skill in the game It has reasons to be the highest DPS skill, the range is too short for a ranged class, and the time it takes for the bolts to attack is too long.
Ray of Enfeeblement: It wasn't good as a single target skill, and now it's even worse.
Steal Time: No one use this skill for damage, and the casting time is too longAt lease it's buffed.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: Even nerfed, it's still one of the greatest damage skill in the gameGreat crowd control increase, it's now the best tab skill.
Fanning the Flame: this skill shouldn't be nerfed, the damage is average and it has no crowd control.
Arcane Singularity: It is a little too op, though the nerf only makes parties want more CW. From at least one to at least 2, which is a good thing for us CWs.
Oppressive Force: The nerf tickles.
Ice Knife: The nerf tickles.
Furious Immolation: At lease it's a buff though no one use it.
Eye of the Storm: A good nerf, from over 33% crit to less than 15% crit
In conclusion of the skill changes, most of the changes are reasonable. The nerfing amount may sounds scary but they only made CW from overpowered to average. However the 'average' is not quite average enough. (pls read on to see the 'average' I would like).
Something I think (and I hope the devs can see this and consider):
The reason that CW is OP is because CW can do damage AND control.
The nerf, had decreased both damage and control by decreasing damage and increasing cool down.
This makes CW average in everything, but not good in anything. A TR can out damage us, both fighters can control mobs better than us.
So, what I would like to see is: a choice for CW to become either towards damage ortowards control. Thus diminishing the OP-ness of having both good damage and controls, and satisfying all players who wanted more control and all players who wanted damage.
The way to do it, at least I think this is the only way, is to split every skill. Paragons only provide limited variation in class but unable to fully satisfy the choosing of control or damage.
How splitting the skills work: at tire one, each skill will have the very weak basic powers, and there are two branches to upgrade it: one branch which upgrades the damage, and another branch which upgrades the control power. Thus both damage and control can not exist at the same time. Feasts for those skills will show two buffs, one applies to the damage branch and one applies to the control branch. If the skill is tire one then both buffs apply (because tire one skills are weak in both damage and control).
How's that sounds, at least I like it
Post edited by xultrakill on
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Comments
The is the second 'here' on top of the first original 'here'? if it is then my response pretty much stay the same. And I have no idea what the third 'here' is...
Also the bottom paragraph won't be effected by any changes like these.
*Minor changes have been made to the first post based on the second 'here'.*
The second "here" is the 2nd round of class updates on preview (some changes were revised on damage/charge time/etc.) and are different from the first "here" and the third "here" is the dev tracker where all of the dev's posts are listed. Simply going through the first few pages will show that there are more changes that are coming to preview later and what those changes are. For example (different class, but its to show a point):
That isn't on preview yet, but its still relevant for HR feedback.
For my point on the second "here", your comment about EotS:
Is there any changes to Storm Pillar? It deals higher DPS than Magic Missiles if fully charged.
What about this, though there is a lot to do if this is going to happen. Module 5? Maybe apply this to every class?
Thaumaturge:
Transcended Master: Shard of the Endless Avalanche now deals an additional 5/10/15/20/25% damage (up from 2/4/6/8/10%). Icy Rays now deals an additional 5/10/15/20/25% damage when used on a single target (up from 2/4/6/8/10%) and has a 1/2/3/4/5 second shorter cooldown if used on two different targets (up from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5).
Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics now deals 100% of Weapon Damage each tick (up from 50%). Creeping Frost now deals 170% of Weapon Damage each tick (up from 85%).
Assailing Force: ICD reduced to 5 seconds (down from 15 seconds).
These are awesome, maybe even a little op for feats......
*OP-ness alert*
*OP-ness alert*
*OP-ness alert*
But I still don't think that the feats are enough.
Arcane Sing:
Branch 1: increased damage, but targets are no longer pulled.
Branch 2: decreased damage.
Shard of EA:
Branch 1: increased damage, but no prone.
Branch 2: decreased damage.
Steal Time:
Branch 1: increased damage, but no stun at the end. (either keep slow effect during cast or decrease casting time)
Branch 2: decreased damage, faster casting speed, slow targets more during casting.
Have you tested it on the preview shard, or are you speculating?
If the what is on the preview server right now went live exactly as is I would be switching to a Oppresser build immediately. The final feat in the Oppressor tree can now deal damage and stun enemies for 5 seconds after they are frozen. That is monster control. When that is paired with Steal time and Shard of Avalanche it is possible to almost completely lock down enemies indefinitely. Heroic Encounters meant for 4-6 people are doable solo with very little danger to yourself. They go a lot slower because damage is down quite a bit, but they are more easily done than on live. As of right now two or three Deathlock Wrights may kill you faster than you can kill them. In mod 4 you'll be able to freeze and stun them so often they'll barely be able to hit you. That level of control would be exceptionally useful in a group. Instead of needing 2 or 3 CW's to nuke the adds in ToS as it is now, in module 4 you'll be able to take down Syndrith faster with 1 Oppressor CW locking everything down and more high damage, single-target classes like TR, HR, or GWFs.
people will stack at least 3 and dmg is still prety good
Opness? Lol.
Nothing "OP" from CW anymore...!
From ACT on preview:
Assailant does ~500k during a full CN run. Its 2% dmg instead of 15% mitigation...
no DC
This is from live. (debuffer DC was working)
With these changes Shard was only changed from embarrassing to barely usable...
(Shard explosion maxhit 97k to 25k...)
If you won't feat shard you get "great" 5k noncrits which you could have done with at-wills or any other encounter instead knowing the shard long casting time and extreme lag sensitive nature...
W/o transended mastery I think I use anything even icy terrain/conduit but shard...
On the flip side, i can add smoulder via cold/arcane spells and CC feature, and this shows in the log; or via putting ftf on my TAB ability.
I've always assumed that FtF applied smoulder, even as a normal encounter, but after reading the description and doing these tests, I'm intrigued. Can anyone confirm/deny?
You do realise, that once at 60, CW is the worst PvP class right? During the leveling phase CWs might seem OP in PvP, but once you ding into end-game and run into TR/GWF/HR and probably the worst for us is GF, then you'll understand how different it actually is.
Like anything, there are exceptions to this.
The worst ? The DC is considered by almost everyone to be the worst pvp (considering that in the temple forum you get posts like "why are we so weak"). I am assuming that you did not even mention DC is probably because no one even thinks about them being there, that does show they are the worst. I can understand that being nerfed is painful when one has spent so much time building ones character, but put it into perspective, the CW will go from triple the paingiver ranking to probably double than everyone else. For us clerics, pvp is an embarrassment to do, now with the coming warlock class that can heal groups (and I would not be surprised if they buff/debuff better as well), they will likely be rejects for pve as well, I can already see all the "looking for 3 CW and 1 warlock for CN" showing up in lfg.
You must be new here!
CW OP on PvP?
Check the leaderboard!
There are only 2-3 cws on the first 3 pages.
And now we got damage nerf...
(yeah we got some cc boost in a world of tenacity and cc breaker skills in every corner...)
CW has very hard time to do 1 on 1 with GWF or TR.
If you want want to roll OP class for pvp in Mod4 I recommend HR or TR/GWF.
Even though I think PVP on a cleric is alot more boring then it was, I dont think particular they are weak. What they really need is corresponding feat reworks, and some animation rework (try casting BoB in the middle of battle.. bogus) Feated lines should be dps/utility(control+buffing)/healing giving more of a choice and variability to the class.
Scourge isnt going to replace the DC, but you going see alot of them at the start, just like the HR class (gawd, how many awful hrs did you see at the start of mod 2 running around DDs pulling things and dying, then asking why you didnt heal them as a DC.. duh, BIG blue shiny circles!!!, I had some manage NOT to stand in HG and die.. for goodess sake) But its alot better now, I think the people who enjoy the class have are still around with it, others have moved on)
I have to say, playing with a good DC in PvP is absolute gold and playing against a good DC in PvP is an absolute nightmare. There are more around then people realise, and i think they actually really undervalued in PvP, especially pug ones.
As a CW, i can hold a node with a DC next to me, even against HR/GWF combos.
If shard has been nerfed so hard do i put coi on my tab? then steal time + icy terrain + storm?
Hmm, this is a bit of a necrothread.