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There ARE alternatives to MI perm ... My Ranged WK
chestnut13
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 176 Arc User
I joined this forum several months ago because I did not know how to PVP or understand the rules and did not want to embarrass myself with poor play. I received a lot of helpful advice from many posters and am grateful. However, there has been this constant byplay of "We are forced to be Perma MI and that is the only way to play and the only meta that works in high end PVP." I've never thought that to be true from a logical perspective, but hey, I am not high end PVP. I applaud folks like kweassa and Rustlord that explore alternate builds and post them here. I am disappointed that they end up being ridiculed and attacked by high end PVP TRs whose only comment seems to be "You would be destroyed in high end PVP." (Don't get me wrong, the folks I am referring to also have great advice and tips, but the aforementioned theme is recurring.) This is a game that changes. The Devs are like gods. We have to be Darwinian and be able to adapt. That means flexibility and an open mind.
Anyhow, I've worked long and hard playing a ranged WK and striving to improve. It seems the only metric that seems to matter on this forum is how strong a TR is in 1v1 and node holding. My philosophy was and is, completely different. So, how to measure if I can be considered "successful?" I set a goal of being in the top 1% of players on the leaderboard. I promised myself I wouldn't make this post touting WK without printable results. You can argue the efficacy of that all you want. I don't care. To me, it's an achievement. Rules being:
1. Only run in solo que PUGs. I've never been in a premade. It's that Groucho Marx thing ... I wouldn't want to be in one that would have me!
2. Have a critical mass of runs ... not just 15 and 5 and have a good run. I have 289 matches.
3. All runs are as a WK.
My limitations?
1. Only FTP. Never bought anything.
2. Rank 7s, reg Vorpal, reg Bilethorn, reg Barkshield, 2 purple artifacts, 1 blue
3. Not perma. My INT is low and my recovery is only 1380. I have fairly high deflect. Hit Pts = 26K. GS = 14.2K
4. I am 53 with nerve damage in my left arm and numbness in my left hand and my reaction time sucks. There are times when my TR won't move and I am pissed that there's a bug. When I look down after dying, my fingers are nowhere near WASD! :eek:
5. For the last 2.5 months I have been away from home and playing on an iMac through Wine. About 1 in every 8 matches, the graphics freeze up and I have to reboot. By the time I get back, it's usually a loss. Although yesterday, I logged back in, everyone was around the campfire and we were losing 380 to 60. I hopped on my horse typed "let's roll boys" and took off. They followed and we won 1000 to 997. Now that was fun.
Here it is: (Not sure if this image is posting correctly .. let me know if not ... I can only get it to view if I right click and open in another tab. Instructions on how to fix this welcome!)
![screenshot_2014-07-10-23-57-03_zps2a997cc6.jpeg.html?filters[user]=140814783&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0](http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/jrrt13/media/screenshot_2014-07-10-23-57-03_zps2a997cc6.jpeg.html?filters[user]=140814783&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0)
http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/jrrt13/media/screenshot_2014-07-10-23-57-03_zps2a997cc6.jpeg.html?filters[user]=140814783&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0
My TR philosophy:
Just Win Baby.
That's it. I don't care about my individual performance or if I can node hold or beat so and so in a 1v1. My build is for support. I try and make my team better. I value strategy over tactics. When a match starts, I immediately try to evaluate my team and the opponent and simply do what's needed to win. If I am needed to back cap ... fine. If I have to sit on 2 and gank, that's fine too. I am OK at 1v1 but am often thumped. I also don't care too much about dying. As you can see, my kill/death ratio would be considered abysmal by most TRs. That is countered by assists. I don't feel there is much if any, penalty for dying in PVP, and it is almost no different than retreating to stealth and healing. It's just a time issue and they seem fairly similar. If I can run into a gank with low health, fire off DiS on everyone and pop Whirlwind and then die, that's fine. My team suddenly has a large advantage and I'll be up and running in a few seconds or maybe even resurrected.
What is my value and tactics?
I run with DiS and CS. I try to stay completely ranged. My encounters are SS, BnS, and PotB. I was told in one post that this was skill-less and that only a real TRs use DF. Well, I suck at DF and my skill level with it is not good. My skill level with flitting all over the battlefield and hitting opponent with DiS and PotB is pretty good. Together, they do a lot of damage and de-buff to multiple opponents. My value is that I make everyone else on my team become much more effective. For dailies, I slot Whilrwind and Hateful Knives. I use Whirl almost exclusively but if in a 1v1, I will occasionally use HK because it's so **** fun to teleport and knock someone flat on their back and then unload all your charges of CS! Fade to green. I occasionally slot CB but haven't figured out how to use it effectively. I am NOT a dominant force in a match. (though I am often top of the pops!) I don't try to be. I don't care who is better 1v1 because it's 5v5. Just win baby.
Build:
Admittedly, my build is nothing special. I am a half elf ... why? ... because from my paper days with D&D, Chestnut Greytower is always a half elf. Yeah, that WIS bonus really comes in handy ...:mad: I value power and deflect. If I can ever get the AD, I will upgrade my recovery enchants. I am a sab and prioritize mobility. I think it is critical to have a third dodge roll and it saves my bacon a lot. My artifacts are Blood Raven, Lantern, and Tactician's Banner. Finding ways to gain AP faster is very important as well. Yes, I die with this build often but I don't care. I can get over it as long as I am being effective. This build is not particularly great at anything but it is flexible and is pretty good at almost everything.
Dealing with Problems:
1. CW - Most are fodder, but good ones will terrorize a TR without ITC. Two of them that insist on sticking together are a nightmare. I've will sometimes slot SBomb but don't have great success with it. It's really about being perfect on rotations and having a daily ready.
2. The Tank DC - Very annoying and not particularly affected by DiS. I will tend to switch out to DF and bile thorn. If there are two of them, I go to other nodes as I am more effective there rather than pissing in the wind.
3. GWF - On average, I don't find them particularly difficult. 3rd dodge roll is an equalizer as they don't usually expect it.
4. GF - Not a problem.
5. Other TRs - For the most part, I don't engage them as much as a perma MI would. If it's a decent perm, I switch to bile. If he's really good, I don't tackle him alone unless I can delay a node turn for team profit.
6. HR - What can you say? A high geared good one ... and I can't touch it. Simply out of my league at the moment.
Well, that's it. I am not trying to pat myself on the back but I am pleased with my results and playing my TR is fun. Save your comments if you are going to tell me how badly I'd get owned in high end PVP. I most likely would. My point here is that if an average player like me can be effective with an alternative build, what could a far better geared and skilled player do with it?
Anyhow, I've worked long and hard playing a ranged WK and striving to improve. It seems the only metric that seems to matter on this forum is how strong a TR is in 1v1 and node holding. My philosophy was and is, completely different. So, how to measure if I can be considered "successful?" I set a goal of being in the top 1% of players on the leaderboard. I promised myself I wouldn't make this post touting WK without printable results. You can argue the efficacy of that all you want. I don't care. To me, it's an achievement. Rules being:
1. Only run in solo que PUGs. I've never been in a premade. It's that Groucho Marx thing ... I wouldn't want to be in one that would have me!
2. Have a critical mass of runs ... not just 15 and 5 and have a good run. I have 289 matches.
3. All runs are as a WK.
My limitations?
1. Only FTP. Never bought anything.
2. Rank 7s, reg Vorpal, reg Bilethorn, reg Barkshield, 2 purple artifacts, 1 blue
3. Not perma. My INT is low and my recovery is only 1380. I have fairly high deflect. Hit Pts = 26K. GS = 14.2K
4. I am 53 with nerve damage in my left arm and numbness in my left hand and my reaction time sucks. There are times when my TR won't move and I am pissed that there's a bug. When I look down after dying, my fingers are nowhere near WASD! :eek:
5. For the last 2.5 months I have been away from home and playing on an iMac through Wine. About 1 in every 8 matches, the graphics freeze up and I have to reboot. By the time I get back, it's usually a loss. Although yesterday, I logged back in, everyone was around the campfire and we were losing 380 to 60. I hopped on my horse typed "let's roll boys" and took off. They followed and we won 1000 to 997. Now that was fun.
Here it is: (Not sure if this image is posting correctly .. let me know if not ... I can only get it to view if I right click and open in another tab. Instructions on how to fix this welcome!)
http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/jrrt13/media/screenshot_2014-07-10-23-57-03_zps2a997cc6.jpeg.html?filters[user]=140814783&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0
My TR philosophy:
Just Win Baby.
That's it. I don't care about my individual performance or if I can node hold or beat so and so in a 1v1. My build is for support. I try and make my team better. I value strategy over tactics. When a match starts, I immediately try to evaluate my team and the opponent and simply do what's needed to win. If I am needed to back cap ... fine. If I have to sit on 2 and gank, that's fine too. I am OK at 1v1 but am often thumped. I also don't care too much about dying. As you can see, my kill/death ratio would be considered abysmal by most TRs. That is countered by assists. I don't feel there is much if any, penalty for dying in PVP, and it is almost no different than retreating to stealth and healing. It's just a time issue and they seem fairly similar. If I can run into a gank with low health, fire off DiS on everyone and pop Whirlwind and then die, that's fine. My team suddenly has a large advantage and I'll be up and running in a few seconds or maybe even resurrected.
What is my value and tactics?
I run with DiS and CS. I try to stay completely ranged. My encounters are SS, BnS, and PotB. I was told in one post that this was skill-less and that only a real TRs use DF. Well, I suck at DF and my skill level with it is not good. My skill level with flitting all over the battlefield and hitting opponent with DiS and PotB is pretty good. Together, they do a lot of damage and de-buff to multiple opponents. My value is that I make everyone else on my team become much more effective. For dailies, I slot Whilrwind and Hateful Knives. I use Whirl almost exclusively but if in a 1v1, I will occasionally use HK because it's so **** fun to teleport and knock someone flat on their back and then unload all your charges of CS! Fade to green. I occasionally slot CB but haven't figured out how to use it effectively. I am NOT a dominant force in a match. (though I am often top of the pops!) I don't try to be. I don't care who is better 1v1 because it's 5v5. Just win baby.
Build:
Admittedly, my build is nothing special. I am a half elf ... why? ... because from my paper days with D&D, Chestnut Greytower is always a half elf. Yeah, that WIS bonus really comes in handy ...:mad: I value power and deflect. If I can ever get the AD, I will upgrade my recovery enchants. I am a sab and prioritize mobility. I think it is critical to have a third dodge roll and it saves my bacon a lot. My artifacts are Blood Raven, Lantern, and Tactician's Banner. Finding ways to gain AP faster is very important as well. Yes, I die with this build often but I don't care. I can get over it as long as I am being effective. This build is not particularly great at anything but it is flexible and is pretty good at almost everything.
Dealing with Problems:
1. CW - Most are fodder, but good ones will terrorize a TR without ITC. Two of them that insist on sticking together are a nightmare. I've will sometimes slot SBomb but don't have great success with it. It's really about being perfect on rotations and having a daily ready.
2. The Tank DC - Very annoying and not particularly affected by DiS. I will tend to switch out to DF and bile thorn. If there are two of them, I go to other nodes as I am more effective there rather than pissing in the wind.
3. GWF - On average, I don't find them particularly difficult. 3rd dodge roll is an equalizer as they don't usually expect it.
4. GF - Not a problem.
5. Other TRs - For the most part, I don't engage them as much as a perma MI would. If it's a decent perm, I switch to bile. If he's really good, I don't tackle him alone unless I can delay a node turn for team profit.
6. HR - What can you say? A high geared good one ... and I can't touch it. Simply out of my league at the moment.
Well, that's it. I am not trying to pat myself on the back but I am pleased with my results and playing my TR is fun. Save your comments if you are going to tell me how badly I'd get owned in high end PVP. I most likely would. My point here is that if an average player like me can be effective with an alternative build, what could a far better geared and skilled player do with it?
Post edited by chestnut13 on
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Comments
But basically not exactly the same thing but you play like this ?
http://youtu.be/8aOV1qrHRFQ
and when I man up, their hp is in half or near half and meditates to full, back to square 1. Well I have a pf too so its fair i believe? :rolleyes:
ITC vs GF/GWF is buggy as hell
edit:
@OP
you use CB against GWFs/GF or other 1v1 situations and let them have your barrage of dfs, cw excluded if you didn't exhaust their teleport. but its really fun to throw it against gwf they'll always wonder why a soul forge revived tr kills a full health gwf in seconds :P
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
I also use a all ranged WK and I have much more fun playing it now, (even if I don't pvp much)
I've been a ranged perma since the minute whisperknife came out. It's so **** fun for real.
Bait and Switch, Shadow Strike, Smoke bomb
Cloud of Steel, Disheartening Strike
Hateful Knives, Whirlwind of blades or Lurker's when needed
Dagger threat, Sneak attack.
You barely take any damage and no risks at all while dealing massive damage :rolleyes: (I'm a vorpal user, I switch to bile when facing other rogues).
I just wish our damage was back so I could 1-shot scrubs with Lashing like back then XD oh those glory days.
Unfortunately as OP said, Pathfinders are just bullshjt. They beat any class anyway so there's that. I admire how far you are in the leaderboard while pugging+non-perma. Keep it up!
I was thrilled by the idea of a full-ranged perma-stealth. I originally played MI, and slowly learned to play the build... at some points i saw a WK build at the forums that was full-ranged and i just had to try it.
Sure enough i re-specced for WK and my results sky-rocketed. I was getting more kills, and more importantly... 99% of the time - 0 deaths. yup, being able to play almost every match with 0 deaths is very addicting, and made me feel very godlike...
And then i wanted to up my game, and the challenge. so i joined Essence of Aggression, and started doing premades. that's when things got south - my damage was so low you could call me a Tickler Rogue, all the players are highly geared and i could barely kill anyone, let alone tanky classes. (was also sab because of the high mobility)
I was ranged but very limited, i had to fight on-node almost always because every point matters in these games... so it was a lot easier for the other team to catch me (a specially without impossible to catch lol).
Anyway, after a while i decided to re-spec to MI (executioner) and worked a lot on my DF skills, and now i can definitely hold my own in premades and be a valuable asset to my team.
Please don't get me wrong - if you only play pugs like you say, than WK is perfect for you - godmode is fun
Thank you. It would not have felt right if there wasn't a donkey like you around. Do you really think that after 300 matches I haven't faced anyone good?! And as I've said, I am not in this for 1v1 dickswinging like you likely are. I am in this to help whatever team I am on to win. I am sure you are simply amazing and unbeatable. Gosh, I hope I never run into you ... I scared!
Actually I envy you ... I am sure that ignorance is bliss.
You are probably right. It would be interesting if someone a lot better than me tried it. I simply have no interest in premades. Not into organization and authority ... lol ... I just do this to have fun on my schedule and no one else's. Who knows if someone with top gear and enchants could make a dent?
And as to God mode ... I die a lot. I don't mind taking lots of risks to create havoc and debuff opponents. I just don't find a big penalty to dying if you are achieving something.
It's really not the point. And I do end up against some premades ... sure, I get stomped, but have had some good matches too. I really didn't want this to turn into a "WK sucks, MI is the only way to go" thread. I don't doubt your wisdom as I understand the dynamic. I do, however, question it. It just won't be me to prove you wrong. When I make the top 5 pages, I'll repost ... don't hold your breath waiting!
And from my perspective ... I am successful with my build. I'm just not the best.
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
Against those opponents, if you're a WK perma, then you need to use wisely and aggressively that 1-encounter slot advantage you have over MI builds. MI permas are mostly set with ITC/BnS/SS. The lack of ITC in turn, allows a WK perma to slot one offensive encounter of your choice, and it mostly comes down to how well you use that encounter in combat.
In other words, "playing it safe" by using stuff like PotB or Smokebomb can get you only so far. Ofcourse this choice is usually determined by the situation, but if there is an opponent with higher spec/stats than normal, as mentioned above, then it pays to have an "Ace-in-the-hole" by making good use of an offensive encounter.
In my case, it is either Dazing Strike or Lashing Blades... and this is coupled in conjunction with Hateful Knives daily in a combo. Since none of TR dailies break stealth, you eye in on the moment where the HK-DaS or HK-LB combo can earn you a decisive advantage which would be almost impossible for the enemy to overcome. Keep on eyeballing for the moment where any visible target loses around 40~50% of its health. Then go forth with that 85' range proning daily, followed by the LB autocrit from stealth, which will also be impossible to deflect since the target is proned. If you have saved up on CoS wisely, follow up with an immediate shot of SS to restealth and then dump the whole volleys of CoS from within 20'.
In an ideal situation, against targets that are not super-tough like GF/GWF, the HK daily will hit for around 6~8k on crit, your LB may hit for around 10~13k, and if you promptly follow up with 8 charges of CoS that will gain you another extra 8~10k damage. This is actually the most powerful WK chained-combo in the game which a perma-setup can use. You can typically expect a net damage of over 20k total, although things can be a bit disappointing if HK failes to crit(..but the combo itself is still guaranteed).
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Although I am not perma, using that extra encounter is indeed critical. I ran with LB and IS for while rather than BnS but just didn't have enough stealth time. The combos were fun, but I find the key to my build is constant damage over time and PotB and DiS is just too effective to give up. Also, between dropping BnS on the ever present thorn ward and PotB up as often as possible, AP regeneration is much improved. It takes a bit of a leap to understand that a TR can be devastating delivering nagging damage over time in hot node fights rather than the view of the TR needs to burst dps. Different views, different styles, When the game proves me wrong ... as many suggest it will, I'll own up. Until then, I'll keep working at it.
I believe I am the one who said that DIS and cos do not require as much skill as DF or gloaming cut for that matter and I maintain my stance on it. However I can see that my words can easily be misinterpreted to convey something that I would rather not - elitism.
In that post I spoke without fully considering their impact, based mostly on a fear of something terrible that could occur which would make neverwinter PVP even more nightmarish than it already is.
Imagine the following scenario - you notice your home node being capped. You go to contest it and find no one there. You start taking damage and have no idea where it's coming from. You run around, maybe spam a few AOE skills....... nothing, you can't find anyone. You might see a Bns doll pop up, but you never see the rogue becuase when his stealth is almost over, he runs and hides in the large area around the node.
This is the potential that the stealth based WK holds. "perma" TRs are constantly flamed and hated in PVP, the emergence of stealth WKs would increase this exponentially. A MI that uses flurry and stays stealthed and ITC'ed constantly is a major PITA. However, he does expose himself to risk and retribution. Furthermore, anyone who has tried using DF in combat can attest to how difficult it is. Thus, the MI's success is partially justified. But how is the playerbase likely to react against something that they can't fight back against at all, and that they never even see. Furthermore, you would see a rush of FOTM people making WK TRs just to be OP and "godmode". This would almost certainly lead to massive complaints and eventual nerfs, maybe WK specific ones. As weak as rogue is right now I'm terrified of more nerfs. There are a number of ways to effectively balance stealth the RIGHT way. Unfortunately, we have seen the nerf-bat push things from one extreme to the other, moderation doesn't seem to exist in the mind's eye of the devs and in looking at the proposed changes to GWF in Mod4 I am acutely aware of that.
I would like to say I greatly appreciate both chestnut's character and the point he's trying to make. It's obvious he's not trying to abuse a mechanic just to to gain an edge. He cares about TR as a class and wants to promote diversity. Unfortunately, this game favors stacking specific powers/builds that result in an overwhelming advantage when using them. I respect that he's trying to push forth a viable alternative. However, I think he's not giving enough credit to "top-end" TRs and also missing some important points.
Top-end TR's spec MI and use flurry, there are reasons for this.
Top-end TR's node contest and 1v1 alot, there are reasons for this as well.
There certainly are people who certainly make rogues and play them to abuse their mechanics just for the ability to excel in pvp. They often just spec the meta and don't ever consider alternatives until they get confronted and beaten by it face to face.
There are also alot of top-end TR's who love their class and do their homework.
I myself do not fit the current meta. I use a GPF instead of a bile, I never use POTB, never have liked it. I use flurry yes, but I don't use COS, I use gloaming cut. I also have been using the skills I use now BEFORE they were popular. I find it extremely ironic that the Pvorp lashing/impact shot rogues who used to call me "perma-****" are now using the same skills I have used in pvp a month after open beta. Back in those ages past I recognized flurry and added stealth as effective counters to tenebrous using CWs, the then monster GF, and the unkillable sentinal GWF. I have also made a WK TR, tried out all their abilities and considered different builds to maximize their effectiveness in how they are different from MI.
I completely understand why the meta is the meta and the advantages it presents.
Chestnut, you say you play purely to win and don't care about 1v1 or node contesting. Those are the things that a TR does best to make his team win, and it's something that TR excels at over other classes. This is because of how domination rules work. Domination is about one thing, node contesting, the team that does this best wins. The team that most successfully pressures and captures all three nodes will win, always. It's pretty much as simple as that. If we saw an increased range of PVP game modes, how pvp is viewed would likely be very different and would also promote alot more diversity.
Can a WK support his team and be effective, absolutely. Can he be more effective than a GWF, HR, DC, GF or CW in that regard? Absolutely not. A major limitation of the rogue class is the dynamic of our aoe powers and CC ability. We have those things but we are forced to chose between damage/survivability/cc. A significant number of our powers also require melee range, and we simply do not have the same level of toughness that the other melee classes do.
This brings us to node contesting. Stealth give a rogue the ability to freely travel where he wants to go. Once the rogue is contesting a node this brings us to combat. If the enemy team wants to win, they have to react. Often this leads to 1v1 combat. If the rogue in question is very good at this then the enemy team is forced to dedicate multiple players in order to kill/move him off the node. If they do that, suddenly they are at a disadvantage in numbers at other nodes.
More than any other class except for perhaps HR pathfinder I have seen rogues be THE determining factor in winning or losing a match.
I myself have turned a match around from being 300 points behind to winning, simply by stopping focusing on killing people and making the other team pay dearly to keep their home node.
The reasons MI infiltrator is superior to WK in PVP is purely because of mechanics. Range isn't much of a advantage when your node contesting. ITC'S PVP dynamic is simply too good to pass up, and WK offers nothing that comes close to compensating. Furthermore, ITC has more synergies with flurry than you can count on one hand. If WK had ITC the state of rogues in pvp would be very different.
A wk using DIS and COS differs little from a MI using gloaming cut and COS. The WK has range, the MI has ITC to escape, both lack punch in a very substantial way. Flurry has that punch. If you compare outright damage flurry does around three times more damage than DIS(closer to 4 with bile) and it also does it MUCH faster. Burst damage is critical in pvp. WK has equal access to flurry, however, without ITC they simply cannot use it as effectively.
The argument that a WK has an extra encounter slot is a moot point. A MI can just as easily switch out ITC for a different encounter, the fact that virtually every MI has ITC slotted should tell you something. I myself often switch out ITC for lashing when my team is doing extremely well, simply to get more kills. I find myself dying three times more often when I do this, and dying in situations where I normally wouldn't even break a sweat.
Now why would flurry be so important in the first place? This is because any rogue that specs for survivability is going to go for Stealth boosters or CC(like smoke bomb). This means that that you will have to rely heavily on your at wills for damage.
Ultimately the reason MI>WK in pvp boils down to a single encounter - ITC.
Now, this is not to say that WK is not an interesting paragon, or that it does not have significant advantages. I'm pretty sure my 11k WK scoundrel could out dps my 15k MI saboteur in a dungeon, by a lot. Unfortunately, WK got the shaft in a number of ways. PVE, rogue is mostly dead, and where it's not is in soloing or single target. In these two aspects WK doesn't have the upper hand on MI. PVP WK lost ITC and that is too much of a hit. If we see a general boost in rogue DPS, suddenly WK becomes super sexy for PVE. If we see a rogue's survivability not rely so much on stealth and ITC, they become a very attractive option for PVP.
If the point your trying to make is that other rogue builds can be effective in PVP and focusing on things other than node contesting and 1v1 can be rewarding and fun, then it's a point well made. Ultimately, it's a game and who "wins" isn't about who is the best, it's about who has the most fun.
However, MI is still the most effective paragon in PVP, hands down. High stealth builds greatly increase survivability of the otherwise severely underpowered rogue, and this requires mastery of flurry to stand on equal grounds with other classes. Node contesting and being able to win 1v1 will win you the most matches. If your a casual player who doesn't want to develop the PITA skills and the BIS gear it takes to top the leaderboards that's fine, as long as your having fun that's what is important. Wk is alot more forgiving to the mid-level, casual player.
However, if you want to perform the absolute best that you can as a rogue in PVP, you would do well to spec MI, practice flurry, and get a bile enchant(until they fix it)
I don't disagree. It's much harder to use DF tactically, especially without ITC ... that's why I don't use it unless there's a DC that needs work. It's just that it takes skill and planning to properly use DiS to do the most damage and de-buff in a gank.
I might be doing it incorrectly, but WK isn't god mode for me! I die more than Carter has little pills. Then again, I am not spec'd for perma. I can, however, see how I'd like a lot more stealth! The tradeoff with my WK would be giving up damage and I am trying to find a balance that allows me to be effective. I don't want to be a mosquito that is only annoying (although sometimes I feel that way already.)
I do play purely to win. I didn't say that I don't care about 1v1 or node contesting. I do both as needed and I am pretty competent at it. I just don't think that it's the only metric to use to determine how good a TR is. What is the best metric? Not sure. That's why I focus on how much I can win. I don't wish to get stuck in meta that says I need to "this" and only "this". I believe the WK has more flexibility in role than the MI and I use it.
I am afraid that here, my friend, you are simply wrong. I know that unequivocally my game is proof of that.
No argument there. Me too. But I've also turned matches by standing on 2 with a DC while others are holding 1 and 3. Remember, I am in Pugs with no communication between us other than a hurried mis-spelled chat. I can barely fight correctly on keyboard, never mind fight and chat! I just try to do what no one else wants to do.
Range is an excellent advantage. Death is death. If the other toon dies, you win the node. I'd kill for ITC!
Ah, but are you sure you are using the correct equation? Overall damage will be equal to (Damage of At Will) X (Frequency of when you are in a position to use it) X (Frequency of your ability to actually land it). I can't comment on the respective frequency of the last two terms for you or any other MI. But I can comment on mine. As long as I am in range, they are, for all intensive purposes 100%. I also get a de-buff. I can't tell you how many times an opponent hops around the edge of a node thinking I am chasing them to hit DF. I stand in the middle and plink plink plink with auto target. It's kind of funny. All I am saying is that the combo of PotB, DiS, and CS is more powerful than you might think.
I can't argue against your statement. I do, however, hope to prove it wrong. I do think that a better geared TR than me and one better on a keyboard could challenge that. I think that you will, at some point, see a WK TR on the first few pages of the leaderboard.
Until then no one will agree with me and I understand that. Meanwhile, I'll just keep plinking along and if I can find someway to ever get enough AD to upgrade!
Thanks again for the response.
The only times I seem to get killed are when abilities bug or I screw up (SS not refilling stealth, smoke bomb not working, or drop my doll too late and lose stealth).
I am completely OPd vs 95% of the other players. If CoS is available & I'm up against a squishie with <35k HP, I can even kill them in around 15 sec or so. I can kill non-BiS HRs fairly easily (though I have to stay off thorn warded node to do it).
The only classes that give me trouble or take forever to beat are the BiS pathfinder HRs, GWFs & DCs... I can kill them, but it usually takes so insanely long that they give up or backup arrives to chase me away before I can kill them... I pretty much only PUG & when I usually meet these players, their team is steam rolling us anyway, so I just stay invis and annoy them to avoid the deaths.
Wish I was higher on the leaderboard, but while I hold my node or have it contested 98% of the match, I get almost no points and the rest of my 8-9k GS team holds battles 10 feet off a red node...
As someone (not a youngster either) who has respec'd back and forth several times between MI / WK (currently MI) you inspire me to try WK again.
Keep playing the way you enjoy, if you're effective and having fun at it mission accomplished!
He's not in the top 1 %
1712 Kills
1616 Deaths
All pug matches.
Breaking even vs Pugs is not top 1 %...Not trying to be cruel, just stating the obvious.
Being page 26 with this however is an accomplishment, good job.
Ignore this poster ^^^
He is just mad I <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on him with Svetlana so bad ... he quit the game
He is selling off as of yesterday.