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GF Tradeoff Opinion Question
shamgar4
Member Posts: 121 Arc User
I have been an IV Conq since beta. PVP and PVE, and I had it under control what I was doing.
I am going to be on the preview server testing some of the changes, but want to gather some opinions/thoughts to help accelerate things. My biggest problem is the tradeoffs.
So lets say I want to try tact, with the proposed party AP gain. I see IV tact people and SM tact people. They both have their Pro's (IV takes advantage of the control powers function, and threat rush = more mark; while SM takes advantage of steel defense and high AP gain). Before mod4, dropping frontline for Fray, as wizards/etc hate the pushback. With mod4, i am wondering if we see less shards, so it is less of an issue. Pre mod4, mark was meh. With mod4, especially as a tact, having agro and combat advantage with mark makes threat rush a bigger deal.
Some tact builds drop lunging strike for fray, keeping frontline. To me, as a Conq, frontline is big damage, and getting in early important to maintaining some amount of agro. With tact i know i will be doing less damage, but i would think getting in there asap would still be good.
I know i am rambling, but its unfamiliar territory lol.
I am going to be on the preview server testing some of the changes, but want to gather some opinions/thoughts to help accelerate things. My biggest problem is the tradeoffs.
So lets say I want to try tact, with the proposed party AP gain. I see IV tact people and SM tact people. They both have their Pro's (IV takes advantage of the control powers function, and threat rush = more mark; while SM takes advantage of steel defense and high AP gain). Before mod4, dropping frontline for Fray, as wizards/etc hate the pushback. With mod4, i am wondering if we see less shards, so it is less of an issue. Pre mod4, mark was meh. With mod4, especially as a tact, having agro and combat advantage with mark makes threat rush a bigger deal.
Some tact builds drop lunging strike for fray, keeping frontline. To me, as a Conq, frontline is big damage, and getting in early important to maintaining some amount of agro. With tact i know i will be doing less damage, but i would think getting in there asap would still be good.
I know i am rambling, but its unfamiliar territory lol.
Post edited by shamgar4 on
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Flourish is still to slow to be any good
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one I have the most success on in Domination is my Tactician. Rocking a full preservers set & PVP gear as well as dual frost enchantments. Feats are Guarded Assault and Shield Talent. Skills are FS, BC and Knight's Valor. I actually usually top the leaderboards because of how miserably hard I am to kill.
Why the Frosts? That +4 seconds recharge KILLS perma rogues and HRs who rely on quick cooldowns.
My other one is OPVP. Rocking a Conq's set with 31% deflect. Renegade Evoker, Blacksmith, Laughing Skull, Slyph, Will O Wisp. Feats are Combat Superiority and Steel Defense. Dailies are Terrifying Impact and SOS. Skills are LS, BC and Griffon's Wrath. Enchants are Terror and Elven battle. The idea is that I am so painful to hit even without SOS that it's not worth it. The Slyph and Will O Wisp mean the CWs can't get away and rangef*ck me.
Edit: No augment, I know, I use a Perfect Bonding on the Will O' Wisp. I find that trade off of a lot better than a typical augment.
After looking at the module 4 changes at first I was thinking Threatening Rush (already strong) will be OP for PvE, but then I realized I am getting by without it now and nothing is getting nerfed, so why do I need the OP taunt on TR? It isn't like I will be generating less threat after module 4 and nobody else seems to be getting a hardcore buff, so I don't need to keep up with any other classes more so than I am now. I am back to where I started before mod 4: Swordsmaster is the indestructible build for PvE, and now that it is getting buffed it should be even better for me.
BTW recipe for PvP without Threatening Rush:
Combo Bulls Rush and Lunging Strike. It sticks really hard. I haven't met anyone that can completely keep you off them. PS don't put 3 points in Bulls Rush. That is silly. I put two points in it and PvPd a bit and thought to myself, "why do I want them to go flying away from me? This was better with one point."
Mod 4 makes Frontline less attractive in PVP but I still don't know if I can get over losing its value in solo play.
Then Threatening Rush. I doubt I could ever do without that power. I don't know how I'd do Valindra's Tower without it as I use Lunging Strike + Into the Fray/Threatening combo to reach the caskets. Not to mention gap-closing in PVP and overall mobility in dungeons and solo play.
Threatening Rush should be a GF's base at-will, available to both Swordmasters and Iron Vanguards.
FLS doesn't hit any less hard than before IIRC. But it certainly does not hit as hard a Flourish.
Flourish hits like a truck in Mod 4 with Conqueror path feat. If you have Staggering Challenge, it's GG to whatever you hit minus a GWF or rogue with ITC up when you land those now free GWs.
WMS is also vastly superior to Cleave, like, it's not even close.
The devs only said that the GWF does less damage with FLS, not the GF and I even just logged in with a spare GF onto preview with the damage on FLS being the same as live, so I'm not sure why people are saying it will hit for nothing when nothing changed on it at all damage-wise (for GF).
This is what is happening;
Basically, the Iron Vanguard path has had its damage reduced on GWFs to more accurately reflect its status as the tank path while Swordmaster has had its damage buffed on both classes to more accurately reflect its status as the damage dealing path. GWFs were hitting way too hard with Iron Vanguard powers while GFs were not getting the same benefits from utilising Swordmaster powers.
My only worry going SM now seems to be losing TR. Been running without FLS lately (PVE), and focusing more on buffing/debuffing (Fray, KV, etc). I like it, my damage hasn't changed much, and the parties has gone up. But especially with better mark, I think i will want mark up as much as possible.
Will have to see how the new dung/heroics are.
they nerfed wreckless attacker so now the only stat we could get above a gwf is gone no more power, added that vorpal is a completely worthless with zero gear set that offer crit chance, will gwf gets 70% action gain against are at best 38%, the new shiels is about the same as before as far as how long it works , but now we take damage. Please tell me can i get a change to gwf please and still keep all my stuff, ive spent hundreds of dollars and countless hours on a completely nerfed classed that they want me to set up to tank with no gear set that justifies the argo, im running half corrupt and half purified <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the bonuses in the hopes of getting any kind of stats....add that gwf get well over 1k damage on weapons and at best ill see 700, and add they are having me move at a snails pace....this class now is the worse on here and the only chance we have against any class now is if we totally out equipemnet them.. ie im all 8-9 gems and i get it handed to me by 6-7 lvl gem gwf. This game should refund me all my m o ney back at min with all the nerfing it done to this class, and i still cant do pvp for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.. thx for taking away what ever this class had left in it
I disagree. Get your base crit to ~20% (1800), wear Timeless Hero, and when Reckless Attacker kicks in and your set procs you will get 35 - 36% crit chance. This is far superior to Mod 3 DPS GFs. Factor in Tab Mark and GFs are now hitting things far harder than they used to.
As for PVP, a quick look at the leaderboard and one can see GFs are doing far better. There are GFs (plural) on the 2nd page the last time I looked. Mod 3 you needed to go to about page 10 to find the first GF. Aside from our rubbish shield we can actually hurt people now. There is no ways that a GWF below 16k (my GS) can stand and out-tank me anymore, and that is the way it should be. 14k GWFs would cause me a lot of problems in Mod 3, but not anymore. He has to match my GS or higher if he wants to stand on a node and facetank me and that is great.
Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR
Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
Straying from the PvP halfling are we? Try Half-orc max strength and dex, timeless set with 2kish crit and max power. Conqueror running combat superiority and steel blitz. Enforced Threat, ItF, and LS for encounters, WMS and cleave.
Max Wrathful warrior out for a double whammy damage boost from ItF, stacked on top of a marked target with a p.vorp and watch the big numbers pop up. I've seen 30k+ crits from LS on marked targets with ItF and reckless stacks and no other debuffs(just me soloing stuff). They go higher in parties too...
Add in a vorpal enchant and its big pain time without losing tankiness.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Cresendo is great! Steel Defense is bugged and sometimes doesn't work at all... So basically Im running a buggy spec and lost FLS, Threatening Rush, Trample the Fallen
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Still a work in progress (before and after the module change) that's still gearing up and booning up, but the difference from mod3 conq to mod 4 tactician has been startling. Haven't got around to using ACT for awhile but I swear the damage is up substantially.
Churning through mobs with a combo of ITF, Lunging Strike & Anvil of Doom. Full at-will & encounter debuffs from the weaponmasters strike - which is now doing acceptable damage as well as debuffing. Anvil hitting harder. Crushing surge hitting harder for single targets. Not even really missing the bulls rush that I would have used previously instead of ITF.
Can duke it out with the new dragon campaign mobs with some judicious shield use and guarded assault (ghost stories instance for example). IWD mob fights (the nastier polar bears) that used to take a ridiculous amount of time are now more reasonable slugfests.
Haven't jumped into pvp much with all the brokenness that embodies at the moment - but I imagine there's a useable swordmaster tactician build for pvp.
Kinda happy with this GF for the first time in .... well, ever.