test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Class changes M.4
kriseus
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 9
Ok guys so i kept hearing that CW and GWF getting nerfed so i googled it up and well its crazy hehe , honestly why would any1 want to play those classes after the nerfs? Shard 1 of the more fun skills i seen in a game becomming useless? and gwf form now bearly reduce any damage? that was pretty much the class highlite? ^^
I played mmo's for many many years but this is the strongest and far from smartest nerf i had ever seen : 0 .
There are many ways to balance issues with a game but this is far from the right way ^^.
There is nothing good that can come out from big nerfs beside maybe small lose of player base and lots of rage around the game...its sad just like in allmost every other aspect of life instead of looking back in history people keep doing the same things over and over again thinking history is a big lier...humans never learn.
Good day : )
I played mmo's for many many years but this is the strongest and far from smartest nerf i had ever seen : 0 .
There are many ways to balance issues with a game but this is far from the right way ^^.
There is nothing good that can come out from big nerfs beside maybe small lose of player base and lots of rage around the game...its sad just like in allmost every other aspect of life instead of looking back in history people keep doing the same things over and over again thinking history is a big lier...humans never learn.
Good day : )
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
...
Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
I still stand by my stance , big nerfs are allmost never a good solution, and i hope they indeed doing some changes on the preview server so the final result wont be so nasty.
I would say that in must cases buffing and / or making other classes more usefull is more work but also a much better solution to please the crowd in return.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692981-CW-nerfs-announced
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?700641-Keeping-the-CW-Changes-in-Perspective
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?701451-CW-preview-tests-%28data-parses%29
I don't know what you were googling, but it was likely very far from the truth, with little actual facts.
and use the dev tracker for upcoming changes to the classes that haven't been put on preview yet?
People still play and do dungeons and skirmishes with GF and TR, classes that, while somewhat viable in PvP, are definitely terrible in PvE compared to CW and GFW. All the "nerfs" (balancing) being done will bring those 2 overpowered classes in line with others. That's why we need those "nerfs".
You see, here's the thing:
The proper response to that would be to IMPROVE THE OTHER CLASSES.
People play GWF and CW because they are fun and effective overall.
Making other peoples lives suck does not make yours better.
It just makes everyone miserable.
And I'm saying this as someone with at least one character in every class at 60 who still plays them all, with MOST of my time on my GF.
I would LOVE to see my GF's Tanking improved without destroying what made my GWF such a spectacular Melee Generalist.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
I play a PVE TR, we have been nerfed into oblivion but I still have fun. I even changed to Whisperknife that is even weaker, but I have more fun playing it, and that to me is much more important than nerfs or damage charts.
If you only play a class because it's the best class at that moment, you'll be changing class quite a bit and probably get very frustrated on the process XD
Yep thats pretty much what i been saying, takes more effort but the result is better as well.
"Generalist" implies 'good' at many things, great at none. GWFs deal more damage while tanking just as effectively as GFs currently. That's not a 'generalist' - that's OP. You want to tank and DPS? Fine - but both should be lower than classes / builds that focus on one or the other. That's what the changes are meant to do. You want to top the DPS chart? You'll be able to do it - just don't expect to continue to be able to stand in the red while you do it. CWs will be able to control, DPS, or a bit of both. Reports I hear are that Oppressor spec CWs can pretty much lock a target down permanently - that's serious control. It comes at the expense of DPS, though.
And before I hear an inevitable "need dual-spec!", let me just say - life is about choices. Make one. You made one when you selected your class. You don't need multiple specs. Specialize or generalize. Your choice. Just stop complaining that you "need" to be able to do everything available to your class. You don't. Get a group to address areas / roles you can't fill.
Sorry, I was a bit unclear on what I meant.
(NOTE: THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH DOES NOT INCLUDE THE VERY PINNACLE OF EACH CLASS, BUT RATHER AVERAGE PLAY IN AVERAGE GEAR WITH AVERAGE ENCHANTS)
I would LOVE, for instance, my GF to wildly out-tank my GWF and my TRs and HR to out-damage my CW. The problem is not, however, with the GWF and CW classes. It is with the others. GF's just do not, by any objective standards, tank all that well. They cannot survive being mobbed all that well and seldom do much in the way of damage. THAT is what needs fixing. TR's were nerfed into oblivion repeatedly, to the point where, unless you play with a VERY specific build with VERY specific gear you just will not be preforming that well (superb players excepted, of course). Use Tenacity to reduce their Burst Damage in PvP, but allow them to fight better in general and MAYBE will will start seeing something other than Perma-Stealth. And so on and so forth.
Again, buff what is boring and weak rather than nerfing what is fun and strong.
Hope that clears things up.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
i mean, when i ask for advice how to play my wiz in PvP on this forum, most answers was "if u PvPing dont play wiz"...
i love my wiz and i have no intention to change class no matter how nerfed they are.. but i would still like to know will all this nerfs will be in PvP also?
These nerfs will affect PvP. How much has yet to be determined. Damage is down quite a bit, however they have also fixed armor penetration so that will help offset those losses. One thing that hasn't been worked out (that I've seen, anyway) is how useful the new Oppressor tree will be in PvP. CW's are being granted a lot more control via freezing. They've scaled it back some, but initially CW's could permafreeze opponents so they couldn't do anything.
Also be aware that other classes are being changed to fix some of the common complaints in PvP. The GWF moves Takedown and Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge will now stun players instead of proning them--that way your tenacity can reduce how long you're unable to do anything. Also Roar will no longer root players and won't pierce CC immunity.
The best way for you to assess how these changes will affect you is to find some people from your guild and head over to the preview server to test them out for yourself. If something is wildly out of line from where it should be then comment as such in the feedback thread. So far the developers have been very responsive and have made many adjustments based on player feedback.
1. CW is control wizard, no DPS wizard, so the "nerf" in their DPS is right and has a valid reason.
2. GWF seems that will have to choose between DPS or Tankiness, it's right because right now they can survive better than a GF (or equal in the worst case, even if the GF is Protector) and deal 2x-4x times their damage (or even more, depending on what is the GF build and what is the GWF build), so it has a valid reason.
3. And for me, given the difficulty of PvE in this game, if they bring TR and GF to the GWF/CW lvl in PvE the game would be extremelly easy, boring and I would have no reason to play it, it's like when you start playing an MMO and you have to kill rats and butterflies... that's what I feel now in NWN in the "High End" content.
Every group of 13K can do everything in this game and we have ppl with +18K GS, so no thanks, don't make things even easier.
Armor penetration is now fixed on the preview server so it works with all powers (only works on about half, currently). However, many abilities and feats have been absolutely whacked by the nerf-hammer. The net result is significantly lower damage across the board for CW's. For example, Shard of the Endless Avalache has had its explosion damage reduced by 60%. No amount of armor penetration can make up for that big of a damage loss.
Sorry but you can't balance a game around a 13K - 18K gearscore when the reasonable gs requirements is 10k.
The CW nerfs are way over the top 76%? Totally destroyed renegade and thamaturge. Sorry that is plain incompetence.
As for gwf, they are the most OP class in the game, having the best dmg and best defence is too much, they can hit over 20ks while having 40% deflect chance and then they have CC immunity and take even less dmg...
The nerf for them is to make players choose between mainly dmg or defence now they cant be king of both so they have to choose one main path to go down and i think this is fair.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
also the gwf... like many said before, shouldnt be a tank AND dps. that makes no sense. now u choose which u want dps or tank thats perfect.
and lastly your awful argument about buffing everyone lol.... if you buffed everyone. then dungeons like VT, MC, CN would be so easy, and there would be no challenge. you have to think of the mobs and bosses. balance. doesnt mean just between classes. it means balance in the game. balance means you cant just solo dungeons. balance means you need 5 players , 5 roles and teamwork. gwf took the spotlight for GF. and by YOUR LOGIC. to make GF balance were suppose to give them the same amount of dps as gwf? xD just so all balance? no. you nerf what is op. ur gwf is op. suck it up its getting BALANCED. not nerfed. BALANCED.
for **** sakes. think a little. its easier to nerf the problem into a balanced state, then buff the entire game's content and classes to suit your over powered class.
gwf are not getting nerfed enough imo. cw got much heavier nerfs. but u only hear gwf cry like babies ^^
CW is having a truckload of CC, it's just a 2/3 DPS nerf from what I've read on the feedback forums, but they can CC you to death in PvP, I think it's better... So, in short they will have a pretty good CC in PvP and PvE, but they will have less DPS, that's how it should have been from the beginning.
Everyone who says "Oh, nobody care if I destroy all in PvE, cause the problem is in PvP, then let's have 2 sets of encounters or maybe nerf some encounter in PvP", No!!!, then I would say give: "My GF 100x Times more damage in PvE, cause reasons, nobody will complain about PvE!!!"... each class should be doing just their role... or at least not being extremelly OP on what they do... in PvP and PvE, I know it's impossible to do it perfectly balanced, but the current situation is bad and can be fixed a little (IMO the changes are going to the right direction), everyone want to stack CW/GWF in PvE, HR/TR/GWF in PvP, etc..., and it's because some classes are filling more than one role, and even better than the classes who should be king on them, for example right now:
- CW: DPS/CC God in PvE and they are not even a striker class, they should be good in CC and decent in DPS.
- GWF: DPS/Tank God in PvE, Destroyer GWF Tankier than a Protector GF and able to make 4x times their Damage, wut?, etc...
Those things are essentially bad... I enjoy PvP and PvE, that's why I don't want OP classes in PvP/PvE making only 2 or 1 classes viables and then making rest extremelly uselles (You only PvP and that's why you only want to nerf GWF, but there are people that don't just want to PvP).
So let me guess, CWs have been way OP in PvE, being able to form CW-only groups to clear almost any dungeon and the only class being stacked for everything, being able to do everything in PvE (AoE DPS, AoE cc for survivability) and topping the DPS charts. But them being able to do everything better than the other classes in PvE is NOT OP cause it's PvE, while GWF strenght in PvP is unacceptable.
Also, big news: Pathfinder HRs are way more powerful than GWFs in PvP, and TRs are at the same level right now, even better when it comes to holding nodes and trolling the enemy base. Both classes better at holding nodes against multiple enemies.
Pathfinder HRs are way ahead of GWFs and ahead of TRs in PvP.
Don't know much about the CW nerfs, but in the GWF feedback thread a guy posted pictures showing how CWs are still better DPSers than GWFs. Plus they have better AoE cc. With GWFs survivability nerf, CWs are better for both attack and defense in PvE.
But it's ok i guess.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Agree 100% with everything said here and would also also like to add : You see so many GWFs in PVP and ranking high in the leaderboards because this class has had an extended period of time of being wildly successful in pvp - therefore it's no surprise that there would be a ton of players within that class that are both geared to the max and enjoy pvp. You see so many rogues participating in pvp and dominating the leaderboards precisely because they have ABSOLUTELY nothing better to do with their time, and also TR has always been somewhat successful in pvp. Meanwhile you also see alot of CWs in pvp mostly due to the sheer population of CWs out there becuase of their PVE dynamic. Said CWs are often being steamrolled/flattened in pvp regardless of gear or skill. Meanwhile you don't tend to see all that many GFs or DCs in pve OR pvp. They are the true sufferers of this game.
In short CWs really need to be rolled back with regards to PVE, to the point that there should be no advantage to double stacking or triple stacking them on a dungeon run. I think there is no danger of CWs losing their place in a dungeon, their control abilities are simply too good to pass up and none of the other classes have anything that comes remotely close. However, they have every right to be concerned with how this might affect their pvp ability, if anything they need a boost in this regard.
GWF are really good at both PVE and PVP, but I think this margin is far more fragile than people realize and while they do need balance when the nerf hammer comes out to this extent they have every right to be concerned.
Nerfs to TR have made our PVE dynamic non-existent as our only strength was always DPS and more specifically single target melee range DPS. Talk of giving TR better aoe skills has flooded the forums but this would just make TR the same as HR(without the range) or GWF (without the better defense) What i would like to see is a triple or more increase in our single target DPS, giving TRs a niche role in a dungeon. How to do this without making TR extremely overpowered in PVP is anyone's guess, but i'm sure it could be done.
Meanwhile GFs and DCs have the right to complain about pretty much every aspect of the game, it's a good thing that players of these classes tend to be the most concerned about helping the party as a whole and are usually fairly good natured.
P.S. HR pathfinder needs to stop being broken as all hell in pvp and HRs in general they needs to find their place in PVE this may occur naturally when CW is taken down a notch