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Why not use Warlock as path under DC or CW Builds as you did gwf/gf?
ahsher
Member Posts: 208 Bounty Hunter
This would add greater dimension to both the DC and CW Play styles.
DC will finally be able to Dps.
CW single target Dps can be restored.
DC will finally be able to Dps.
CW single target Dps can be restored.
Post edited by ahsher on
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Magic Users usually have an origin of their power, which is different for each class.
Druids cast 'Divine' magic, which isn't an innate ability, but favours granted from natural spirits. The same goes for Rangers or Shamans.
Clerics and Paladins also use Divine magic, but in this case, they ask their deity to grant the favour.
Wizards, using Arcane Magic, are literally forcing their will on creation, their magic is VERY 'scientific' and put into formulas and calculations, they twist and bend the rules of reality.
Sorcerers, also Arcane Magic users, are usually seen as having Dragon Blood in their veins, in some way, and thus, their magic is purely talent (less 'spellcasting', more 'innate ability')
Bards, (yes, bards) were handwaves in Neverwinter Nights as 'Dragon Blood' too - but it is more a mix of Wizard and Sorcerer magic, they bend sound and music (aka 'innate ability' - their skill at performing) into a chord or rhyme that unloads as a 'spell'. Bardic magic counts, for rule issues, as 'Arcane'.
Warlocks, finally, are arcane casters who do not have innate or learned magical abilities. Technically, Warlocks are 'Arcane' versions of the way Divine magic works, just that instead of calling upon a deity or spirit they revere, they call upon an entity that HAS supernatural power, and are, like divine casters, just a conduit.
The entity can be some lowly Powrie, Imp or Memphit, some 'normal' Fire Elemental or an Erinnye, or up to entities such as Asmodeus (THE ruler of hell, where the DEVILS live. DnD differentiates between devils and demons, and those 2 groups hate each others' guts), some lord of an elemental plane, or Lovecraftian creatures from outer space.
Main is a DC, but not too bothered about dps output for the class. It's lower - and following the traditional healer/support convention - it's designed that way.
Mitigating this - again following the usual convention - is increased surviveability by self healing/self buffs, but the debuff on self healing in NW goes against this.
Aion Cleric is a good example of this type of lower damage (but not bad all the same), higher self surviveability, whilst still giving great group healing.
If they where ever going to bring other class features to the DC - they've missed the opportunity when they introduced the second Paragon path, the AC. This turned out to be very similar to the Divine Oracle, with only a small percentage of variations in the different powers/feats actually used by AC configured Clerics.
Where they deviated significantly from the D&D format here was the absence of what they should have done for this second Paragon path - The Battle Cleric.
The Battle Cleric is NOT a separate class in D&D, it never has been - it is a build option for the Cleric. D&D Clerics have been able to equip mace and shield more or less since D&D started. But not here.
So if ever they where going to carry across abilities from other classes, look somewhere like the GF and produce a proper Battle Cleric build option, as they should have done in the first place.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
The ranger, for example? People complained it was too similar to the fighter, too similar to the rogue, and should just be smushed into those classes in the weeks before its release. And yet now that it's here, the playstyle is completely different. It can go into stealth, wields a pair of short blades (or a bow), and can be ridiculously hard to damage in the hands of a skilled player, but even with those three things it still plays in all ways completely different from a rogue, beyond "damage dealing"
Warlock is going to be the same way. It may use magic, but it's focused on churning out damage: wizards churn out AoEs, and put control on enemies (steal time, arcane singularity, and others). Clerics lay down buffs and heals to their allies, and hit their enemies with debuffs to make their allies more effective.
Warlocks though? We're looking at hellfire; pure DPS, smashy smashy stuff. The other classes simply aren't built to handle that.
But both GF's and GWF's are the same Core class. Fighter. Hence the shared Paragon Paths.
They both have 'fighter' in their name, but they are still two different classes. Even considering any D&D background that makes them part of something like a 'core class' shouldn't impact the game, because a background shouldn't trump the relevance and character of a class. Two classes sharing one paragon path chippes some uniqueness and therefore distinct character away from those two classes and can make players of that class feel like playing something with of less identity.
Currently you can choose a HR, DC, CW, TR, or you can choose a 'fighter class'. Do you want to play a specific class or do you just want to be a part of some group that shares similarities (also known as GF/GWF)? The latter seems shallower to me. I play a GF, and I vividly warned some months ago about the sharing of paragon paths because of the issue I just described. I am still against it and suggest to undo these changes (I know, this will be difficult, but it would be the right thing to do).
This was my main point. fastrean1 mentioned another very good point, and there are some more points that indicate that sharing paragon paths is a bad idea, but my post is already becoming quite long so I stop here. What has been brought up in this thread is already enough reason not to share anymore paragon pathes between classes.
Both Cleric and Wizard make Powerful Necromancer. If Warlock = Necromancer why not.
A paragon path is basically prestiege class from previous forms of D&D, which is an extension upon the core class, and no matter which class you are you've the same paragon path's open to you more or less. There are a decent number of paragon paths but eventually it's going to overlap between the classes as they add more and more in whether you want it to or not. .
Now as for warlock necromancers.. no, just no. Clerics.. potentially based on the god they worship and call upon for their powers.. if it's a god of the dead then yeah, a cleric could raise the dead though it wouldn't technically be necromancy as necromancy is one of the arcane schools and clerics aren't arcane practitioners. Sorcerers or Wizards.. yeah, there could definitely be a necromancer form of those classes, and I sincerely hope that there is at some point a necromancer in the game.. keep in mind the difference between a cleric 'necromancer' and a wizard/sorcerer necromancer would be extremely vast.. while core skills of raising the dead would be similar, necromancers of the wizard/sorcerer class would also be centered around stealing life like the warlock can do, debuffing enemies, and if like the D&D base outright killing weaker enemies without even dealing damage to them. (Would have to translate as killing off as a chance to kill trash mobs instantly, with boss/sub boss/elite type monsters being immune to the effect) and a Cleric while also being able to debuff enemies would be focused more around dealing damage to enemies/healing their minions. Warlock however will never be a necromancer.. they've one skill which borders on the line of necromancy but looking at the rest of their skills nothing is even close, they summon dark entities and control hellfire, which is very true to the warlock lineage, as well as debuffing which is a very common theme in any form of magic or supernatural powers within D&D, and capable of being done with physical abilities as well, so we should never see a Warlock raising the dead in this game. Summoning demons yes, throwing around hellfire..definitely. Pending the warlock pact controlling enemies rather than being focused on damage dealing for sure.. but never raising the dead.
-edit-
I do understand that this game tweaks some things to help make classes fit into the mmorpg and playstyle perspectice of it, but aside from that they've thus far remained pretty true to the D&D heritage it's come from with most of the classes being very similar to what they're taken from. So unless they change the way they uphold where this game comes from then all of the things I've said will hold true.
the Warlock Fury feels a lot like CW Thaum.
Some of the CW Renegade tree has been brought into the Warlock Heroic Feats.
(Warlock Feats are = CW prenerf)
The Temptation / Damnation Warlock paths are much more akin to a cleric Necromancer.