Pre level 20 PVP ruined; Level 60 PVP needs some sort of entry GS.

doriangreigh · July 2014

The closest thing to true pvp was from level 10 - 19. Sure there was a gap in players who were near the 19 cap of that spread but still, generally no one had enchants and not much gear wise really set you apart. Here you don't have mounts and generally nothing really that gives you some ridiculous advantage over other gear wise.

Then Mulhorandi gear came, well thankfully that was bound so once people leveled past that tier not that many people seemed to want to spend AD on buying the now expensive mulhorandi gear.

Now enter the xvim gear. Turns out it is bound to account once equipped to be forever handed down to any new toons you want to make. Now every person that PVP that is less than honorable there only to grief mock or others gloat how uber awesome or unkillable they are now have toons decked out in high ranking enchants in full set of xvim gear with mulhorandi gear making the most level even playing field in the game (PVP wise) completely un-enjoyable.

I am not suggesting to remove them, let twinks be twinks. So my thought is put these people in queues with each other (kinda like the level 60's who are in rank 9 - 10's with greater/perfect enchants mostly dominating with pot chugging). I'm guessing this isn't an easily implemented solution but in a perfect world it would be since ideally all these tricked out toons need to fight each other.

Since the above probably isn't viable my real suggestion is can we please get a level requirement on the xvim gear, even mulhorandi stuff.

Please put a minimum level of 20 on mulhorandi and xvim gear (why do level 5 - 19 toons need purple gear anyway? Isn't there a restriction on new players not being able to buy items in AH because it is NOT normative play? Mulhorandi and Xvim gear is breaking normative play especially in the PVP pre 20 range).

I miss the true PVP matches of no mount no special gear just me against others on a pretty **** level playing field.

In fact if you analyze it most of what makes PVP broken is the gear and enchants, simply disable these for play and only allow for tenacity. I think you will find a lot of classes being claimed to be OP not be so much without their over the top gear pushing them into that category. Set bonuses, enchants, pots these are all what is making PVP aweful and making class abilities more than they should be.

I know that isn't a total solution but this is probably the best way to return the game to what the developers term "normative" play.

Part two of this thread is the fact that in the realm of post 60 PVP i'm seeing way too many people coming into level 60 PVP with green gear, NO artifacts (seriously not even the first one you get at level 21 when you get a quest for one).

Can we please get some sort of minimum gear check, either through GS or through items. For instance once you turn level 60 if you can't be bothered to do any type of daily that gets you 1000 or so AD to buy entry level blue gear from the AH then you should NOT be allowed to queue for PVP. Or implement some sort of minimum GS since the current system is interested in matching 6k GS people with 16k GS people and expecting that to be fun.

There have been numerous people asking for this and I think its reasonable and seriously needs to be looked at. Too many people are coming into PVP with gear that I can't even imagine how they played through the game to this point wearing.

Would this discourage people? Probably but frankly it needs to happen. The auction house is there and every level 60 can get gear from it. If the AH is too much trouble then pick a gear set for each class put it for sale in the market area with a quest to go buy it (either with AD or Gold) make it blue entry level 60 gear (+4 generally as I recall). Or even better yet just put a complete set of blue gear as a reward to every level 60 toon in that last box, nothing fancy but something that would at least give them something. Still will not help getting an 8 - 9k GS player in a match with 14 and higher but it would be a start at least.

Again in a Perfect World we will have tiers of matches at level 60 that range in 6 - 8k gs matches, 8+ - 10k gs matches, 10+ - 12k gs, 12+ to 14k and 14k+ for pvp queue groups. This is a much better way to match up players than on a win loss and those that earn the nice awesome gear can actually work towards that goal without having to constantly have matches they can stomped before they can move.

Level 60 PVP should NOT be open to 6k gs people. It is populated with far too many elder game level 60 people to accommodate people that don't want to be bothered to do anything as complicated as viewing the AH for some upgrades.

The game is fully experienced free to all players from 1 - 59 at level 60 if they want to pvp they need to know that the requirements jump considerably.

godlysoul2 · July 2014

You are thinking way too broadly. Eliminating enchants/boons/gear bonuses from PvP just because some newer people will not have them? That is something that affects everyone in a large way, where the real problem is just beginners fighting geared veterans. A more simple, less drastic solution with a similar result would be to get separate queues based on GS/Boon progression/leaderboard status/some other factor, ect. There is no reason to take away everything everyone has been working for rather than just pair people up a little better. On another note, the game probably wouldn't be as enjoyable if there was nothing to work towards to make you better.

Another example of thinking too broadly is adding level requirements to epic gear that can be used at lower levels. A simpler solution could be to just disable it from low level pvp, or require that it has no enchants slotted for low lv pvp. There is no reason to block people who want to use it to level faster from 1-20 in PvE.

Either way though, you run premades/partial premades if you want to fight other pre-partial pre. Else, you get stuck with whatever comes out with who wants to play. That essentially is a dual que option in my opinion that helps this situation. Ultimately though these under geared people will have to fight more experienced/geared individuals if they ever want to get better/find motivation to get better.

I don't really have much to say about this. The system isn't perfect, and sometimes you will be paired with/against beginners, but overall I don't terribly mind it when I have the option to do partial/full premades to lessen my chances of that happening. Else, I'll just take the random que and a fast que pop for some quick matches.

doriangreigh · July 2014

godlysoul2 wrote: »

Y
Another example of thinking too broadly is adding level requirements to epic gear that can be used at lower levels. A simpler solution could be to just disable it from low level pvp, or require that it has no enchants slotted for low lv pvp. There is no reason to block people who want to use it to level faster from 1-20 in PvE.

Either way though, you run premades/partial premades if you want to fight other pre-partial pre. Else, you get stuck with whatever comes out with who wants to play. That essentially is a dual que option in my opinion that helps this situation. Ultimately though these under geared people will have to fight more experienced/geared individuals if they ever want to get better/find motivation to get better.

There is no reason to have anything to "help" you level from 1-20, you can do that in like 2 hours of play probably less if you don't leave your chair. Having a minimum level on this gear I think is not only easily implemented but perfectly fair. Even the game developers have capped people who don't have at least 1 level 60 from buying too much for the AH with the idea "it is not necessary to buy item for normative play" and yet here they are somewhat wrecking normative play in the 10-19 level pvp bracket. It was the most fun PVP there is in the game, no mounts no enchants my handful of skills vs. yours.

And I think its a lot easier than creating a secondary queue system for twinks. It doesn't take that many pvp matches to level to 20 which would prompt me to delete my toon and start over because pvp post 20 pretty much wasn't any fun due to the mismatch in gear (twinkers) and now the 10 - 19 range is pretty much ruined as well with mulhorandi and xvim gear. Although eventually that mulhorand HAMSTER will go away, but xvim gear being account bound after equip makes them last forever, like herpes.

colonelwing · July 2014

doriangreigh wrote: »

There is no reason to have anything to "help" you level from 1-20, you can do that in like 2 hours of play probably less if you don't leave your chair. Having a minimum level on this gear I think is not only easily implemented but perfectly fair. Even the game developers have capped people who don't have at least 1 level 60 from buying too much for the AH with the idea "it is not necessary to buy item for normative play" and yet here they are somewhat wrecking normative play in the 10-19 level pvp bracket. It was the most fun PVP there is in the game, no mounts no enchants my handful of skills vs. yours.

And I think its a lot easier than creating a secondary queue system for twinks. It doesn't take that many pvp matches to level to 20 which would prompt me to delete my toon and start over because pvp post 20 pretty much wasn't any fun due to the mismatch in gear (twinkers) and now the 10 - 19 range is pretty much ruined as well with mulhorandi and xvim gear. Although eventually that mulhorand HAMSTER will go away, but xvim gear being account bound after equip makes them last forever, like herpes.

The AH spending cap is there, in order to prevent goldsellers from selling AD on throw away accounts.

hexanna22 · July 2014

Make them do a tutorial, and that way I won't be fighting 5 people by myself on a node, while my 4 teammates don't even try to cap the other 2 nodes--or sit on our home base which is already capped, not even fighting an enemy.

I started out not twinking while leveling, I got the Muhornad weapons, but didn't slot them, really, I just didn't want to buy new weapons every few levels. BUT MAN OH MAN--trying to win with pugs that didn't have a clue was frustrating, and not only that about half the players Twink...When I was midway thru my 20-s I transferred some gear to myself.

But just because they Twink doesn't mean that they know how to play. Like the CWs who come and stand on node with me when their team owns it--cya--bye! Or the people with their P Vorpals that still stand on the pillars and won't jump down to contest the node. Or again, people twinked on my team that just hang out at one node and somehow expect to win the game that way.

All in all, it helps me to kill faster which helps when constantly fight 3-5 people by myself--BUT I still die just as easily. The things that make people live longer in pvp are still at very low levels til later in the game. I can't run off a node and regen, my HP aren't all that high for regen to be super effective yet, I have to use low level pots, I cant stack enough lifesteal or defence--and Im not buying enchants for these.

if people did a tutorial, sure some people would still twink, but, 1 person can't stand on 3 nodes, and you can beat twinks in low level pvp with non twinks if you have a team that knows what they are doing.

pompalompa · July 2014

i leveled my TR form 20 to 60 only doing pvp. i sustained myself topping charts with only the mulhorand cloak and often outleveled pvp blues from the vendor.
i think i had a level 2 silvery enchant on boots tho, might have helped with the honor farming.

takes not much skill to do that, rest running in pvp play so bad..

provisii · July 2014

I do agree that there needs to be more of a balance system in 60+ pvp. The reason a level 20 can't fight anyone 30+ is because the gs gap would greatly affect the fairness. So why is there no system after 60? I think they should implement some sort of system whether it's based on GS or some type of elo system.

Pre level 20 PVP ruined; Level 60 PVP needs some sort of entry GS.

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