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ahsher
Member Posts: 208 Bounty Hunter
*Please don't move this thread, it's not meant to be class specific, but to get feedback from other classes*
You release Very powerful artifacts, more powerful companions, overpowered t2 gear and then complain about the increased damage people are capable of...
When you throw 20 mobs at a party, you need more control. That's not the problem the CW created rather one created by game content designer. Tougher Fewer mobs would be more challenging and allow GF to hold agro. Also could have Friendly (mobs) inside Dungeons that we will need to keep alive would make guardian fighters more needed as well. Spawning pools such as Spell Plague are Great ideas. Nerf Current Gear (High Vizier Set)
Want to get a TR in Dungeons. Make disable Trap useful. Allow them to (Disable a trap) that would divert the mobs currently in the area. Or find a secret tunnel that bypasses content.
In D&D you could use imaginative ways to bypass content: Stone Shape to open a way around, Climb Walls, Pass Door, etc. You also had lots of secret or concealed doors, trapdoors, i.e. dungeons that were nonlinear.
Introduce some random aspects to dungeons: maybe there will be a secret door somewhere that you can take advantage of, or an NPC you could interact with who could offer a way around some threats (if you have a good enough Charisma score), or a concealed mechanism that could do something nasty to the critters in the next room. Maybe an obscure note that, if left in the right place, would get two factions of critters fighting *each other*. You know, stuff we would do in actual AD&D.
Maybe you need a dwarf to manipulate that stone mechanism to open a way around, or a thief to find it in the first place. Maybe you need a CW if it's of a magical nature, or a DC if it's of a divine nature. Maybe you need a ranger to lasso the lever across the chasm so you can operate it.
It is the dungeon design with massive amounts of trashmobs which makes CW class the most useful. Dungeons designed differently could make other classes just as useful.
Devs need to change Dungeon Content so that it attracts other classes. Clearing and controlling mass numbers will always draw CW by the one doing the inviting.
Instead of using 20-40 MOBS and 1 boss for dungeon encounters
Try instead;
2 ELITES PER SUB BOSS INSTEAD OF 20 TRASH MOBS.
3 Elites for final boss.
Exploding Golems Near Kessel! Wonderful idea, give that guy a raise!
I encourage all players to post your thoughts on how we can make dungeons relevant for each class.
You release Very powerful artifacts, more powerful companions, overpowered t2 gear and then complain about the increased damage people are capable of...
When you throw 20 mobs at a party, you need more control. That's not the problem the CW created rather one created by game content designer. Tougher Fewer mobs would be more challenging and allow GF to hold agro. Also could have Friendly (mobs) inside Dungeons that we will need to keep alive would make guardian fighters more needed as well. Spawning pools such as Spell Plague are Great ideas. Nerf Current Gear (High Vizier Set)
Want to get a TR in Dungeons. Make disable Trap useful. Allow them to (Disable a trap) that would divert the mobs currently in the area. Or find a secret tunnel that bypasses content.
In D&D you could use imaginative ways to bypass content: Stone Shape to open a way around, Climb Walls, Pass Door, etc. You also had lots of secret or concealed doors, trapdoors, i.e. dungeons that were nonlinear.
Introduce some random aspects to dungeons: maybe there will be a secret door somewhere that you can take advantage of, or an NPC you could interact with who could offer a way around some threats (if you have a good enough Charisma score), or a concealed mechanism that could do something nasty to the critters in the next room. Maybe an obscure note that, if left in the right place, would get two factions of critters fighting *each other*. You know, stuff we would do in actual AD&D.
Maybe you need a dwarf to manipulate that stone mechanism to open a way around, or a thief to find it in the first place. Maybe you need a CW if it's of a magical nature, or a DC if it's of a divine nature. Maybe you need a ranger to lasso the lever across the chasm so you can operate it.
It is the dungeon design with massive amounts of trashmobs which makes CW class the most useful. Dungeons designed differently could make other classes just as useful.
Devs need to change Dungeon Content so that it attracts other classes. Clearing and controlling mass numbers will always draw CW by the one doing the inviting.
Instead of using 20-40 MOBS and 1 boss for dungeon encounters
Try instead;
2 ELITES PER SUB BOSS INSTEAD OF 20 TRASH MOBS.
3 Elites for final boss.
Exploding Golems Near Kessel! Wonderful idea, give that guy a raise!
I encourage all players to post your thoughts on how we can make dungeons relevant for each class.
Post edited by ahsher on
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It's not going to happen though.
This. They won't go back and rethink old dungeons mechanics for sure. Not in the near future at least
There are so many ways to create fun encounters, that require tactics and coordination. At the boss fight, you can spawn a mob, that would explode in the large area after a couple of seconds, dealing 50k damage you can't dodge, so GF should lure him away from his team and block explode damage with Guard. Or through the boss fight, spawn crystals of different colors - blue and red, for example, blue ones immune to physical damage, red - to magic. While those are active, the boss is immune to damage and deals increased damage. Sooo many ways to make dungeons more difficult and fun, but they just use all the same mechanics with such small additions like exploding golems, you don't even have to use.
Blah blah blah, my over9000th post about this matter.
The unwanted consequence was that only the best classes at that were deemed necessary (pve wise).
I can only hope they won't follow that route for mod4, giving to every class the same dps, cc and survavibility. At that point NWO will stop being a mmorpg (if it has ever been) to become just an hack'n'slash.
(sorry for my bad english, I hope to have made myself clear enough)
2. Faster, stronger, and more control-immune adds in dungeon. A lot of dungeons don’t have any control-immune adds. But even the ones that do, those control-immune adds do not post any realistic threat because they are slow and predictable. This needs to change. I propose making those control-immune adds attack faster and stronger, and put them in every dungeon. Objective: If a DPS class is hit by one, they need to dying.
3. Nerf lifesteal. Ever wonder why DC is not needed in dungeon? When you can refill your HP from near death to full with 1 encounter, why would you need a DC? The effectiveness of lifesteal needs to be toned down, severely.
4. Mobs should have cleave damage. If you stand right next to the tank, and the tank is hit, you should take cleave damage.
5. Merge paragon paths, and use paragon feats to change how classes work. We have limited slots on the skill bar, and the paragon paths only have a few different skills between each other. Why not combine them, and use the feats to change the behavior of a class instead of maintaining 2 almost redundant skill paths?
6. Define clearly the differences between defender / healer / striker / controller. No class should be able to perform 2. Powers with control effects should deal lower damage than strictly DPS powers. AoE powers should deal lower damage than single target powers.
7. Stop trying to balance PvE based on PvP, and vice versa.
8. Dual specs so people don’t have to find a class that works for both PvE and PvP, and so that you don’t have to balance PvE based on PvP and vice versa.
Long story short, you put a control based class in a game centered around large packs expecting the class to do an okay job, and the only way it won't do well in this sort of environment is either remove all crowd control AoE from them making them useless for controlling, remove them from the game, or nerf everything about them so hard you can't even complete any of the content past level 10 without someone to babysit you. So either remove them from the game or rework your thought process on what makes dungeons difficult in the first place, or just accept the fact you made this game around the way such a class would work and just balance them for PvP. (Which all of these nerfs are going to make them entirely useless in PvP, they'll just be walking free kills.)
Remove focus on DPS and add focus on what else a character can do. Equalize damage and add more control, heal and protect skills instead of pure dps skills. This way there will be no pure DPS parties and every member of the party will be important for what they can contribute to the party instead of purely dealing damage.
Remove direct attacks that cannot be dodged. Remove the targeted attacks and replace them with more aoe attacks that can be dodged but affect all targets in the zone. This way party placement will become more important and the focus will be on positioning rather than who holds the agro at the moment.
Remove potions or increase their cooldowns. It will make support and healing classes more desirable in parties and fits great with the "all attacks can be dodged" mechanics.
Add terrain obstacles to the battle arenas. This would allow players to choke-hold or maneuver around enemies to avoid damage. Again - positioning and ground control becomes more important and thus the fights become more interesting.
and its not THAT crucial weather your attacks leech more or not.
giving them shields and actual HEALS(not hots or some HAMSTER, my potion instarefills my lifebar too. i mean HEALS.) would change alot.
i was allways underwhealmed at the keep-alive capabilities of dc's.
ive mained nannybots in quite some mmo's, but this here is just lawlsauce imo.
if dolour doesent main a healing or tanking class, somethings utterly wrong.
im not a fan of dps classes at all, but this games addfest forces you into one.
/edit: i ended up with a cw, gwf and hr.
nuff sayd...
dont get me wrong, some encounters beeing horrible addfests can be totally fun, but not in each and every dungeon plx. =(