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PVP - Do you think Constesting Nodes ruins PVP?
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
Not intended to cause flame wars, just a discussion with hopefully some good thought - enough to perhaps catch a DEVs "Eye" (wink wink).
I have thought about this alot and everyone I personally have talked to about this thinks something like this would be a good idea... It would be interested to see what type of feedback comes up here.
So currently the Domination PVP META is surrounded with "which class is the best as contesting or 1v1ing on a node" the game does rely on teamwork alot but I would say much much more important ends up being which class makeup you have. I think we all agree on this.
A LARGE part of why PVP is the way it is is from contesting nodes: hear me out on this.
Take the extreme - if contesting were completely removed, you wouldnt even have a strategy of sending a perma or GWF or HR to "contest" the node. It would require teamwork to clear nodes and hold them. Think of how fast matches would go - I know I have had some 2hr+ games and while it was fun, 2 hours is much too long...
Well, I have mixed feelings about removing contesting altogether HOWEVER I do think SOME version can be adapted.
I think it would add ALOT to the game if a contested node STILL ticked points for the capture-team however it was reduced significantly. So currently its 1 point a second thats not contested, then zero if contested. What about 1 point every 2 or 3 seconds?
Think of the change in dynamic. Instead of contesting/node holding being the "end all be all" of pvp its not more a "band-aid" and more of a temporary fix. Would it still happen in every game all the time? Sure! because your slowing down the points the enemy team is getting, but NOW a major focus would surround teamwork and having the support of your team to clear nodes.
I think the biggest change this would bring is the dynamic of pvp changes and games would be much more fast paced, require better communication/teamwork and each "encounter" in pvp would be more meaningful knowing you cant just rely on a survivor to contest the point while you re-spawn.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Modifications?
I have thought about this alot and everyone I personally have talked to about this thinks something like this would be a good idea... It would be interested to see what type of feedback comes up here.
So currently the Domination PVP META is surrounded with "which class is the best as contesting or 1v1ing on a node" the game does rely on teamwork alot but I would say much much more important ends up being which class makeup you have. I think we all agree on this.
A LARGE part of why PVP is the way it is is from contesting nodes: hear me out on this.
Take the extreme - if contesting were completely removed, you wouldnt even have a strategy of sending a perma or GWF or HR to "contest" the node. It would require teamwork to clear nodes and hold them. Think of how fast matches would go - I know I have had some 2hr+ games and while it was fun, 2 hours is much too long...
Well, I have mixed feelings about removing contesting altogether HOWEVER I do think SOME version can be adapted.
I think it would add ALOT to the game if a contested node STILL ticked points for the capture-team however it was reduced significantly. So currently its 1 point a second thats not contested, then zero if contested. What about 1 point every 2 or 3 seconds?
Think of the change in dynamic. Instead of contesting/node holding being the "end all be all" of pvp its not more a "band-aid" and more of a temporary fix. Would it still happen in every game all the time? Sure! because your slowing down the points the enemy team is getting, but NOW a major focus would surround teamwork and having the support of your team to clear nodes.
I think the biggest change this would bring is the dynamic of pvp changes and games would be much more fast paced, require better communication/teamwork and each "encounter" in pvp would be more meaningful knowing you cant just rely on a survivor to contest the point while you re-spawn.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Modifications?
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It's been my belief that one of the reason Neverwinter has a nonexistant competitive scene, aside from the amount of irl cash needed, is because people don't want to sit in a hour and a half long match, every match. Well, I can think of at least 2 people that like it off the top of my head, but I think I make my point.
From my experiance in other games i would like see different types of maps like capture the flagg, where you are forced to take one flagg from the opponents base to your own while defending you own flagg as it must be on your base when you score with their flagg.
2-3 players where most kills counts as victory in differnt types of maps where terrain playes a part.
There is tons of good examples of pvp maps that can challange players on different kinds of levels and am sure whish ones would be most popular toward pugs and premades will show in a short time.
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Inb4 people tell me to go to IWD open world:
1) It's dead
2) Companion active bonuses (Hi cockatrice)
3) It's dead
4) it's dead
5) It's dead
So having a Deathmatch Domination and a few more maps wouldn't hurt at all. I would actually play it everyday frequently.
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we should have deathmatch too, and other modes.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
TR is what ruins pvp
Oh yeah, TR totally ruins PVP. GWF and Pathfinders are perfectly fine in domination. TR needs some more nerfs to be balanced with other classes. How about making us run around naked using nothing but toothpicks? I think that'll make them on par with other classes.
If you have capped a point you gain points until it is capped by the other team effectively removing these long matches making pvp a less time consuming event. Who wants to sit through one game of pvp for 30 mins plus? Also when its 1v1 the other person does not need 2 people to start capping unless its a 2v1 where it cannot be capped until another team member comes. So 1v1 is not so grinding as much.
With this games can only go so long and gives people a more sure match time which means you are fighting against the clock instead of trying to prolong it. This would make matches more of a fast experience than these drawn out ones that the top end deals with which makes some not want to do another match.
Yeah this game is dying for a new game mode.
And originally this is how I thought Domination should be. I still think it's a good option.
What we need is 10v10.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
TRs aren't the only ones who can hit that hard.
IMHO, PvP needs 3 very different things.
1. LARGE scale map
- Multiple siegeable/defensible fortifications
- At least 20v20 or more
- Long event scoring -- like an entire week, or even month
- Actual siege/fortification weapons
2. Arenas- 1v1
- 2v2
- 4v4
- 5v5
- Several small arena map choices
3. Capture the flagEncounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Plus, experienced PvPers will stop doing solo q, because they can't carry their teams by contesting a node with 1vsX fights.
As for long game, just make some changes, like double score mode after 30mins and/or time limit in 45mins(GG has it 20mins right?).
As for other game modes, yeah CTF sounds cool but it will need alot of tweaks like Unstoppable and Stealth drops flag. I don't think Devs have resources to do that ATM. TDM? with current class balance? No thank you.
Anyway, class balancing is first, then we should talk about others.
Sure you can get their without people seeing you fast, but you must be visible to cap it!
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Not as many threads QQing about GWFs.
Maybe they are just trying to even it out
The current class balance is broken enough to render those things unlikely though. With a base rush and CTF mode we'd go from 4-5 GWF's in a 10 man match to 7-8.
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Clearly, more pvp modes would help. King of the hill, catch the flag, 1v1, 2v2, with minions, with resource farming and turrets building...
Possibilities are endless, devs you just have to see what your colleagues from the other MMOs are capable of.
Well in all fairness they did just release a new PVP mode, with technically 2 new maps.
I feel they are apprehensive to release new modes because if they are not popular then they go unused. If they are popular, they tend to make the old one unpopular so then that goes unused. (Champions Online being a good Cryptic made reference for this).
Hopefully they will keep giving us new modes to try though!
I would've preferred they released those two maps as new Dom instanced maps.
I think the layout on them is fantastic and offers all kinds of opportunities for new playstyles, but unfortunately they're going to waste since it's almost impossible to get a decently organized match going.
Played a gmae yesterday it after 1 hour 15 minutes it was around 350-200. The opposing team gave up not wanting to play a 4 hour game.
WHY?
Because their perma TR contested our node the entire time... His score was literally 0 kills 0 deaths 0 assists the entire 1 hr 15 minutes.
For the other two nodes, it was a matter of proper rotations to kill/clear and tick about 5 points before re-spawn and repeat.
Contesting NEEDS to be changed to still tick for the team that has capped the node, however it ticks for a reduced amount. I think 1 point every 3 seconds rather than 1 point every second is fair. So contesting STILL plays a roll, but its not as effective as before. Contesting is still a way to help win as it lessens the points the opposing team gets, however these LONG games so literally so boring and frustrating, its ruining PVP.