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Upcoming change of the HR-pvp-set. Just no.
osterdrache
Member Posts: 480 Arc User
Whats the opinion of the other HRs out there? Posted here in case it gets burried in the bug forum.
My opinion:
That this set bonus now obeys HD is a good thing. The set bonus was really a bit too powerful. I like that.
BUT: The other changes are rendering the healing set bonus to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Pls reconsider the internal CD and the change of chance here.
Pls dont do this to this set because of people whining or posting videos about two semi decent GF players with pve specc and r7 enchantments getting destroyed by a full specced pvp char stacked with r10, legendaries and perfects.
I provide some numbers:
Current state:
With 40k hp I heal 800 hp on every deflect with 75% chance = 600hp. No cooldown and triggered by many conditions like dots (the ones that can be deflected). This is a bit overpowered indeed.
State with HD:
You nerf the set bonus for 50%, healing me with each deflect for 400hp (75% chance)= 300hp effective with a successful deflect. No dot or ither stuff should trigger the set bonus.
With my bis-gear I can get close to 40% deflect (but only melee stance), otherwise 30% = 35% average deflect chance.
Now, lets assume, I get attacked 10 times within 10 seconds. I deflect three of these attacks, with HD healing me with the set bonus for 900 hp overall.
900hp within 10 seconds and only, if I get attacked and hit. And that with r10s, 40% deflect chance and 40k hp.
How many HRs reach these numbers? And even with the best gear u can ever achieve, I heal only 900hp in 10 seconds. If i get ganked and attacked 20 times in 10 seconds, I still heal only for about 1800hp, but pls realize, I am getting hit 20 times!!
Now the state with the planned upcoming changes:
I get attacked 10 times within 10 seconds. I deflect three of them, and with each deflect I have 50% chance to activate the setbonus = 200hp effective heal per deflect = 600 hp over 10 seconds. Now THE IMPORTANT PART AND THE MOST DRASTIC CHANGE: the ICD of this effect will prevent at least (I am estimating here) 30-40% of this effect even further because attacks in pvp are not constant but come in waves of short periods (three encounters can be easily cast within 3 seconds). Its not pve, its pvp and all about burst dmg, not dps. Thats why every ability that gets an ICD after its initial implementation can be considered an extreme nerf. (See emblem, before, it was stupidly op, no question. But with the ICD, its garbage. It really is! and I roll my eyes everytime I see someone activating it. )
So with upcoming changes u heal with ultimate bis-gear 350-400 hp over 10 seconds. And the requierement for this heal is YOU HAVE TO GET HIT to recieve the heal.
More data? Here it comes.
Lets assume the average, ambitious pvp player. He has r7-r8s and epic artefacts. Lets assume, because the set bonus is always the same for each kind of HR pvp set, he has 30k hp, 30% effective deflect chance.
The outcome with above calculation in this case with upcoming change:
The average HR with this set will heal 157hp within 10 seconds, BUT ONLY if he recieves 10 hits.
Remember: we are speaking of a t2.5 armor set, the best pvp set u can achieve.
Conclusion: Fixing the set (its actually not a nerf but a fix) is a good thing. It already reduces the effectiveness of the set per definition of about 50%. The fix that it doesnt trigger from dots and stuff is also very welcomed.
But dont lower the chance and FOR TYMORAS SAKE dont install an ICD because it renders the healing effect useless. See the calculation.
If u really implement this just delete the heal effect. Because its underpowered as hell but many players wont even get it because they dont know how ICDs work with additional RNGs. For them it sounds good but its actually very bad.
(Some will say, despite all the provided data, that I just dont want my build get nerfed. But for me, I dont care. I have already black ice for eternity, Ice gear ready for empowerement and millions of AD and tens of thousands of ZEN. I just move on to another build that fits my playstyle and I will still beat up two pve GFs. But what about the average player now stuck with a useless set which he grinded for? Remember pls, we are talking about profound gear that costs 100000 glory and many victories. Profound gear of other classes has things like "7,5% deflect and inherent cc with each encounter" or "7,5% more dmg and 30% cd-reduction of best power". And HR gets "You heal 157hp over 10 seconds but u have to be hit over 10 times to profit from this". No. Just no!
Thank u very much for reading :-)
gentlemancrush wrote: »The Hunter Ranger PVP sets are currently providing far too much healing and some changes are coming to them.
1. They will now correctly obey Healing Depression.
2. They will now have a 2 second ICD
3. They will now have a 50% chance to trigger on a successful deflect (down from 75%).
I will also look at effects triggering it that are not damage, but that is a much deeper issue that will require more work. I do not have a direct timeline for this hitting live at this time, but keep your eyes peeled on preview for upcoming balance changes.
My opinion:
That this set bonus now obeys HD is a good thing. The set bonus was really a bit too powerful. I like that.
BUT: The other changes are rendering the healing set bonus to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Pls reconsider the internal CD and the change of chance here.
Pls dont do this to this set because of people whining or posting videos about two semi decent GF players with pve specc and r7 enchantments getting destroyed by a full specced pvp char stacked with r10, legendaries and perfects.
I provide some numbers:
Current state:
With 40k hp I heal 800 hp on every deflect with 75% chance = 600hp. No cooldown and triggered by many conditions like dots (the ones that can be deflected). This is a bit overpowered indeed.
State with HD:
You nerf the set bonus for 50%, healing me with each deflect for 400hp (75% chance)= 300hp effective with a successful deflect. No dot or ither stuff should trigger the set bonus.
With my bis-gear I can get close to 40% deflect (but only melee stance), otherwise 30% = 35% average deflect chance.
Now, lets assume, I get attacked 10 times within 10 seconds. I deflect three of these attacks, with HD healing me with the set bonus for 900 hp overall.
900hp within 10 seconds and only, if I get attacked and hit. And that with r10s, 40% deflect chance and 40k hp.
How many HRs reach these numbers? And even with the best gear u can ever achieve, I heal only 900hp in 10 seconds. If i get ganked and attacked 20 times in 10 seconds, I still heal only for about 1800hp, but pls realize, I am getting hit 20 times!!
Now the state with the planned upcoming changes:
I get attacked 10 times within 10 seconds. I deflect three of them, and with each deflect I have 50% chance to activate the setbonus = 200hp effective heal per deflect = 600 hp over 10 seconds. Now THE IMPORTANT PART AND THE MOST DRASTIC CHANGE: the ICD of this effect will prevent at least (I am estimating here) 30-40% of this effect even further because attacks in pvp are not constant but come in waves of short periods (three encounters can be easily cast within 3 seconds). Its not pve, its pvp and all about burst dmg, not dps. Thats why every ability that gets an ICD after its initial implementation can be considered an extreme nerf. (See emblem, before, it was stupidly op, no question. But with the ICD, its garbage. It really is! and I roll my eyes everytime I see someone activating it. )
So with upcoming changes u heal with ultimate bis-gear 350-400 hp over 10 seconds. And the requierement for this heal is YOU HAVE TO GET HIT to recieve the heal.
More data? Here it comes.
Lets assume the average, ambitious pvp player. He has r7-r8s and epic artefacts. Lets assume, because the set bonus is always the same for each kind of HR pvp set, he has 30k hp, 30% effective deflect chance.
The outcome with above calculation in this case with upcoming change:
The average HR with this set will heal 157hp within 10 seconds, BUT ONLY if he recieves 10 hits.
Remember: we are speaking of a t2.5 armor set, the best pvp set u can achieve.
Conclusion: Fixing the set (its actually not a nerf but a fix) is a good thing. It already reduces the effectiveness of the set per definition of about 50%. The fix that it doesnt trigger from dots and stuff is also very welcomed.
But dont lower the chance and FOR TYMORAS SAKE dont install an ICD because it renders the healing effect useless. See the calculation.
If u really implement this just delete the heal effect. Because its underpowered as hell but many players wont even get it because they dont know how ICDs work with additional RNGs. For them it sounds good but its actually very bad.
(Some will say, despite all the provided data, that I just dont want my build get nerfed. But for me, I dont care. I have already black ice for eternity, Ice gear ready for empowerement and millions of AD and tens of thousands of ZEN. I just move on to another build that fits my playstyle and I will still beat up two pve GFs. But what about the average player now stuck with a useless set which he grinded for? Remember pls, we are talking about profound gear that costs 100000 glory and many victories. Profound gear of other classes has things like "7,5% deflect and inherent cc with each encounter" or "7,5% more dmg and 30% cd-reduction of best power". And HR gets "You heal 157hp over 10 seconds but u have to be hit over 10 times to profit from this". No. Just no!
Thank u very much for reading :-)
Post edited by osterdrache on
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Comments
It's ridiculous to call HR "OP" when the other classes have: multi immunity+broken feats/feats from another class, and perma stealth=no target with still a good amount of DPS and awesome crit rate/severity. It's really a witch hunt. For our "BEST" DPS we have to wait 2.5 seconds and can be interrupted even by a dot (and sitting like a duck in the meantime, that in pvp normally means choke+focus).
When the "so called" devs come out with these ADJUSTMENTS (the Irony is strong, take a shield), it seems to me that they are just playing with the bare numbers, on a piece of paper, and that even if it's proven by preview testing that is garbage, it will go on server anyway.
It's a complete joke.
more and more people are leaving and going back to their old games or Wildstar the newest game to come or just finding different things to do...
This game is quickly becoming the GWF and CW game, in pve that is mostly what they want in groups, in pvp, gwf keep getting more powerful, and CW they are bringing them around as well in pvp, other classes they keep nerfing little by little...
I have a GWF with all rank 9s and 10s, got boring, made a perma TR with all same type of gear (bis) got boring, Finally i found a class i really like to play about 3 weeks before Mod 3 and they are nerfing them into the ground (ranger) little by little...
I am still playing but already thinking of other games to move on to, The community just stinks around here, not much support, alot of whiners in this game, GWF crying their butts off about HR but they can tear everyone up except a pathfinder, so the devs are going to nerf the HR once again, I play nothing but pug pvp, and there is usually about 2 or 3 per team now that are GWF players, before it was perma TRs, never heard people crying about HR but they get nerfed and soon to get it again...
I had to grind for the grim gear like everyone else than now grind for Profound, 3 days away and i finally get my last piece... Remember i am not guilded so i cannot do GG, so its been a long journey through <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> pug games to get my profound set..
In less than a year this game will hardly exist, trust me the population is just bad and going down daily, there will be other games that come out in the next year and people will migrate to other ones, the devs cannot figure out how to balance a game at all, always nerf bat. You dont need a GF in this game, tells you something about the design, why have a class you dont even need or noone even wants, HR range damage is going down, TRs should be the best in single target damage but they are not, so noone wants them either, Dont need DCs in dungeons because everyone can pretty much heal themselves up, GWF should be a support tank with more damage than a GF but less defense, instead they are god like, CW can just burn through anything in pve and tank like a GWF...
Now if they basically take pathfinder from us as being a viable pvp option, than all you have is archery spec to fall back on, Glass Cannon... I am still archery spec and trust me it is not much fun in pvp getting ripped to shreds when 2-3 gwf take you out in one rotation, this doesnt happen all the time mind you of course but its a shame....
Enjoy the game for the next month or maybe 2 and go elsewhere, that will be your only choice..
This game is pretty much a sandbox for devs to enjoy their own chars. No, seriously. Take a good long look. They're literally playing their own game. They don't come up with discussions on some nerf or buff, they just... "Yo Dave dere is dat vid on utube dere 2 gfs cant keel a hr. U be hearin me Dave? Maek dat HR die nao". Bam, you die.
Despite all my struggling... I guess I really should abandon this game. WoW took four years to go from #1 MMO to pure bullshift. This one did the same in just three months. Figures.
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
Really have HD effect it, as it should, And reduce the chance to 50%. An ICD of 2 seconds is just way too slow for something that is supposed to help maintain yourself in combat. 2 secs is enough time to eat burst and be almost dead.
As much as I want all the obviously OP and broken things fixed, I am glad they aren't rushing in to anything. Hopefully this gets adjusted.
Hopefully they tone down things that are ridiculous and fix certain buggy powers and such. But more important than heavy haned nerfs is, bring the other classes CW, DC and GF up to the GWF,TR,HR level for PVP. Even more importantly though, is make it so your classes have more than one reliable boring predictable build to use in PVP.
The reason people build the way they do is because they feel forced. People proning all day = perma stealth
more perma stealth leads to roar prone combo's. And CW's having to use powers that are really only useful against a perma stealth. While GF's and DC's are still trying to find where to fit in(as are CW's for the most part)Pretty much warriors = win. warriors = prone.
Prone = Win
Fix the way prones work, before you go to crazy with over adjusting gear and classes. Prones are the #1 cause of PVP strife and stagnance. If you see a HR, GWF, TR, CW you can usually guess, with great accuracy what powers they have slotted, and exactly how they are playing their class. The thing that frustrates us older players (pvp) that have been here from beta, left and come back again multiple times is that even with all of our knowledge, perfect timing, forethough and planning of how to play our character and build. No matter how ingenious and well thought out the idea - it will always fall short because of how Prones work.
People gear high HP, Def, Deflect and everything mainly because of Prones. Think of any other CC or reason you would gear SO MUCH HP. Like a ridiculous amount, Wizards shouldn't be stacking 35k HP, that is so un-D&D it's sick. It is solely to live through a prone combo rotation, because all you can do is lie there and take it.
TL;DR
Have HD effect it and the 50% chance, and ICD of 2 seconds is way overkill. Also before yo go making a lot of class and gear changes, just look at PVP and see the real problem is how prones work. The more prones your team has the more likely you will win. People with dodge should be able to dodge from prone. A rogue gets knocked on his back and see's this big slow tell of an attack coming down at him, does he lie there and take it? Hell NO, he friggin rolls to one side or the other. CW just sit still? No, you would teleport or again atleast try to roll to the side. Same with range and cleric. Let people that have dodges use that dodge as a form of proned roll. It will fix a lot of woes, since the root of most woes really does lie with how Prones work.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
You made me laugh and feel better about myself as a person. Thank you.
Do you have any trustworthy evidence for this?
(its off-topic anyway)
Back to the topic and in short:
I would only mind the 2 second ICD. It really seems too long and I would prefer ~1 Second but not "no ICD" - it should not be a burst-protector (people always wish to be kinda invincible no matter what char they play :P)
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
It reminds me of this game i played awhile back... it was a pirate game and the devs created ships that were only available to buy with cash, so i was like ftbs. I rigged another ship in a way that i could beat the P2W ships and wouldn't you know, it was nerfed within a week, I promptly quit playing. The devs are only concerned with keeping the masses playing and buying zen, if they have to sacrifice one class to do it then so be it, after all it is their day job.
Kinda silly they you can semi-vanish backwards but still can be hit so it's almost useless to use to avoid red areas.
Leap up into the air with rain of swords, literally disappearing, but can magically get knocked out of the sky.
But you can disappear right in their face with fox shift, and avoid harm.
Yeah if they added CC-immunity during the duration of maurder's along with the cc-break, that would be great and give us the survivability we'll need after the set bonus nerf.