test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Too many control wizards
bringitback
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 26 Arc User
I notice in looking for dungeon parties everybody wants control wizards,i rarely see someone asking for a HR,or a GF,i join party dungeons theres 4 control wizards and me.Are they so fun to play?Maybe i should reroll....
all the Looking for group messages start like this......>>LFM CW,everybody is playing control wizards still there are not enough to go around?:)))
all the Looking for group messages start like this......>>LFM CW,everybody is playing control wizards still there are not enough to go around?:)))
Post edited by bringitback on
0
Comments
its easier to stack them then do anything else.. and then you have your speedrunners, who only want to run through content as quickly as possible, so they want them as well.. The dds, are unfortently designed as super add heavy content, and the gwf/cw combo works the best with them. Until they redesign content and/or work on the other classes, you will have the cw requests.
Join the Legit channel, typically you can run any of the t2s without worry of your class.
You can even do all the t2s without cws, believe it or not. Its just easier with them.
meh.. the angst against them is kind of overblown.. nerfing them will not make anyone want trs or gfs more. I dont care if they do as long as somehow they also give them some sort of boost for pvp world.
If they get to the point that cws no longer support a speed run, you will just see people stack gwfs till the cows go home, if they nerf them, you will see poeple stack whatever class is the op of the moment. This is all mmos, some are better at class balance then others, but in reality, no one really ever wanted 1-2 classes in any game I played, and were only forced to take them when the design content was built around needed one.
One Example is the Class Feature 'Eye of the Storm', which, when activating, forces every power used during the active time of it to critically hit, even when the ability normally CANNOT critically hit.
Supposed to fire on USE of an At-Will, or 3x the chance to activate on USE of a Daily or Encounter, it does its check for activation whenever the At-Will/Daily/Encounter deals damage. So, lets say, with decent Recharge speed, the CW fires a Chillstrike on Mastery into a mob group, every 6 Seconds (and that is probably a careful estimate). Thats 5 checks every 6 seconds. Now, lets continue, Conduit of Ice, ticks 2 times a second, 5 targets (plus the one it is anchored to?), for.....lets go with 8 for now, and 5 targets. thats 32 checks if EotS activates, for one cast. Steal time also ticks multiple times, on many enemies, each tick checking for EotS, so technically, a CW can force the equivalent of a 50% or HIGHER critrate, in the add-tastic way the old content is designed.
Maybe they should stop designing dungeons with so many adds that need control.
Well it doesn't work that way,
Actually it is directly dependent upon the number of mobs being thrown at you.
The chance for it to actually kick in is around 5% on an encounter power... BUT... the more and more mobs you throw at them the more this number multiplies.
It's directly related to the number of mobs... the more you increase the mobs the higher the damage for CW will go... the lower the number of mobs the lower the damage of the CW will go. Its designed that way intentionally to basically save the party's bacon when they get overloaded with mobs and need them taken down quickly to save the party...
BUT... the Devs overdid this little Mass Mob thing... that's all there is in the high level dungeons... well... of course you're going to see CWs go to town in that situation.
This power only works that way because there's too many mobs constantly thrown at the party. If this changes... the entire meta will change and CW damage will drop corresponding to the number of mobs thrown at the party as well. Thats why once you get a good 10+ mobs CWs will be critting a lot.
Their primary power... Shards of Endless Avalanche only does about 5000 base damage... give or take gear and power score... but multiply that with Debuff feats, Eye of the Storm, Crit Severity feats and Vorpal... and you basically get a major multiplier for huge damage...
....but ONLY in masses of mobs. Its basically... self nerfing... IF you don't throw craptons of mobs at them.
It was never about CWs or their damage.... their damage depends entirely on the number of mobs you throw at them.
And this is specific to Spellstorms... not Master of Flame.
Less of a nerf and more of a rebalancing. Currently the AoE's from CW's are rather OP in PvE. As for PvP the CW is rather well balanced but falls as easy prey to some OP and exploited class builds (ie HR Pathfinder, TR perma stealth, and GWF IV Destroyer). There are some nerfs in the works for those builds which should give you much more survivability in the near future.
GWF's are already getting hit with the nerf bat. I can't think of what other class for stacking for speed run. I mean, look at what you have left. Feel free to find one.
No they're actually not, ...you'd like to think that..... but it has nothing to do with their actual damage. Even the Oppressive Force which has no target limits still only does 5000 base damage give or take gear score.
And you're not going to be able to change that damage spread in a mass mob situation..... with things constantly thrown at everyone either. The other classes are already outdamaging mages per target. Paingiver just makes you think they're doing massive damage compared to the others.
Here's what you have... simplified...
Mage damaging 10 targets for 50 damage.
Rogue damages 1 target for 100 damage
GWF damages 1 target for 125
Paingiver shows:
Mage: 500 damage
GWF 125 damage
Rogue 100 damage
So even if you reduced it... to say...
Mage damages 10 targets for 40 damage (OR mage damages 8 targets for 50 damage...)
GWF 125 damage
Rogue 100 damage
Paingiver:
Mage does 400 damage
GWF does 125 damage
Rogue 100 damage.
What you really have here is a no win situation... no matter how much you could "adjust" mages they're still going to do massive amounts of damage compared to any other class in these shoes and will still be the best choice... and it will have exactly zero effect other than a speed bump for any mage or any changes in the current meta.
These dungeons are stacked in favor of a mass AoE class and will be as they're entirely designed around it.
Until Cryptic changes the mass mobs swarming you... CWs will ALWAYs outdamage every other class no matter how much they are "adjusted". There is no amound of "adjusting" that will fix this or change it. Other than to make you "feel good"... well... temporarily.... until you're excluded from the next dungeon in favor of the CW anyway...
It would likely have the opposite effect, of stacking even more CWs to get through the content.
VT and MC.
Mage attacks 10 Targets for 20 Damage each
GWF1 attacks 5 Targets 30 Damage each
GWF2 attacks 1 Target for 80 Damage (less damage against singletarget compared to the TR, as tradeoff for the higher resilence)
TR attacks 1 Target for 100 Damage
Paingiver shows:
200
150
80
100
Still weighted in 'favour' of the CW, sure.....
...but there is the mob behaviour.
1. With significantly nerfed AoE damage, there would be a buff to control. Not 'hard' controls that remove the ability to retaliate, but soft control (snares, roots, not stuns/dazes/knockbacks).
2. AoE skills trigger various behaviours in the Mobs, when they get hit by it. 'Tank' type mobs could 'duck down' behind their shield, thus reducing damage taken to them, but also damage dealt by them. 'Squishy' mobs would scatter (dealing no damage as they move away). 'Support' mobs would maybe buff or heal other mobs (limited AoE heal, more targeted, or debuffing against player characters, which would then be exploited by the other mobs). The Supporters would need to be focused down, or neutralized with 'hard' controls' (Singletarget only!).
Also, no constant respawns anymore, instead, have 'fixed' groups of mobs 2-3 times in the bossfight - with a twist. If someone has 'skipped' mobs, during the path towards the boss, those would arrive during the fight, based on the distance towards the bossroom.
Imagine a Dungeon with a path towards the bossroom, where you HAVE to take out the lieutenants of said boss, plus patrols. There should be the choice to take a detour to sweep out the barracks/hatchery/spawn pool, to remove a large amount of reinforcements that might arrive at, say, 50% endboss HP, when the first 'reinforcements' wave from the normal Boss script might have arrived at 60%, with the 2nd Group awaiting at 40%.
You can't fix this with nerfs Mira...
You will have to nerf CW damage by a good 80%... and that's not going to happen. In other words you'd have to nerf ALL CW spells..... from their normal 5000 damage (with 10-12 second recast by the way) all the way down to about 1000 damage (with 10-12 second recast).
That's how much nerfing you'd have to do to achieve that.
Would you really want to play the game that way?
... and you may as well just remove them from the game entirely at that point..... if you're going to do that because there would be no point to even having one in the game.
But then you have to add in all the feat bonuses and passives. Take Evocation: 15% damage buff. Focused Wizardy: 9% more damage. Intelligence bonus damage plus 5% from Learned Spellcaster. OF is Arcane so 6% buff from Arcane Enchantment. Add in Eye of the Storm and I likely crit on most of those hits too. We didn't even include Power adjustments either. You should get 10K non-crits easily per target with Oppressive Force.
Not true. If they were unable to mass kill targets their focus would be regulated to more of a control role in parties. That is what they were suppose to be doing anyways. Their AoEs would function more of an assist to the other classes as they beat the mobs down. Cryptic would likely have to cut back the mob HP multiplier in dungeons. Dungeons would still become more difficult regardless and speed runs a thing of the past. The loss of speed running isn't really a lose in my opinion.
You can't actually, because you can't feat that one.... its a daily.
It does about 5000 damage and unlimited targets gear score changes that.
If you go Renegade... you can increase the CRIT damage by 15% crit severity IF you have a combat advantage on the target... but thats the only feat that will affect.... it outside of Gear/power score. You can get another 15% debuff from CoI which affects 5 of those targets.
But you cannot increase it. What you see is what you get.
Its really not doing anything more than that and never was.
CWs have no actual control powers.... outside of Single target ones.
That is where you made your mistake.
They have Steal Time which is a 3 second stun... Shards will Prone targets for 1 second.
The rest are all Dailys... or single target which are unusable in the 10+ mass mob situations that are thrown at you.
The CW was never about "control" in the first place.... It was about AoE damage.
The class you thought it was... never existed and cannot because it has no AoE control powers and never did.
SO at the moment,if you want to be invited asap for all dungeons and PLAY THE GAME roll a CW:),if not,well you're gonna have a harder time finding a party:)
Or maybe Cryptic thinks to mix the way dungeons work without xxxx mobs attacking you,then other classes might have some uses.
Doesn't matter if its a daily. The feats I mentioned still apply to Oppressive Force (and Singularity for that matter).
Chill Strike
Repel
Entangling Force
Steal Time
Shield
Icy Terrain
Icy Rays
Shard of Endless Avalanche
Some of the above effect multiple if used in spell mastery.
It was always about control, thus the name. You can use the source material (D&D) as reference to this fact.
No class should be viewed as essential. If the mob HP multiplier for dungeons were reduced the CW AoE's damage output wouldn't matter as much.
This isn't a bad idea, Bosses should probably have a bit more mechanics to them than just being distracted by adds. However in other MMO the problem I see a lot is that there maybe just a single boss and nothing really to do with adds but the boss is on a timer. I hate timers and I hate having to have rushes like that. VT is the closet thing to that which I think is done relatively well as at the final stage all those coffins come up to release mobs and you want to start burning down Valindra as quickly as possible with your CW blowing off their oppressive force to help make that happen.
I would agree it would be nice to have something than just an add fest, especially since some of these add fests are difficult to deal with even for two CW (frozen heart comes to mind).
This is inaccurate, oppressive force (mentioned in your original post) is actually a control power which can have its duration increased with pets and the class feature orb of imposition (which gives you 45% increase in duration with cantankerous mage, orb of imposition, and willow wisp). I think there are other things that can be taken to boost that even further.
Other AoE control powers are steal time (5 targets now but still AoE) and icy terrain (not sure if there is a target cap on it). I think a lot of people under estimate icy terrain especially if someone is now the rare spec of oppressor where the feats to ray of frost can freeze enemies almost instantly and that duration is long and with the above companions and class features can put a lot of creatures on ice pretty quick. Ice storm works well however that knock back effect is a pain and tends to ruin most group abilities and dps but again with oppressor that 5 stacks of chill it puts on all mobs it hits can come in handy for dps and to freeze them, 1 chill strike on tab to a group hit by ice storm freezes them in place for over 6 seconds I believe throw an icy terrain down and some more frozen. Can be effective as long as a bunch of other AoE arent' hitting what you lock down to end their cc sooner.
Another thought is make it so that there are CC that last more than 10 seconds (only on mobs obviously not to be that way for players) so that you can actually remove some of the harder hitting adds out of the fray for a bit and focus on getting rid of the smaller stuff.
You're talking gear... not actually what's in the class.
Orb of Imposition is the ONLY thing that increases control powers in a mage and does it by a whopping 15%... ergo... with only 3 second stun max... its barely an eye blink.
Outside that... you cannot feat or change anything in control powers in the actual class build wise.
You can either Buy Pets with Zen...
....or nothing.
That is not a "class feature".
You know Dorian...
I wish you guys would stop this stuff, YOU KNOW Icy Terrain takes a good 3-6 ticks to freeze anything... and once it finally does... it only lasts a second or two and then its gone... .
....You KNOW that Ray of Frost is Single Target.
....You KNOW we've only got 3 seconds with Steal Time
....You KNOW we have no actual AoE control powers,
... You KNOW we have no way to feat any of these things in our build.
... You KNOW we've only got Dailys and Single Target control powers...
..... yet you persist in telling people otherwise.
Then they get the wrong idea and assume its something its not. If people would just stop doing this we wouldn't have to worry about people making these constant mistakes about what the class can actually do.
Do you REALIZE all these people are under the assumption we're some kind of AoE stun and mez type guy that holds mobs indefinitely... They actually think we have real actual control like they see in other games. So they think the reason we don't do that is because we're "selfish".
When in reality... its not and never was in the class, and there's no way to actually build it in.
You can only "Buy it in" with items.
That needs to stop.
They need to begin to see the CW for what it really is, so there is no more confusion and they don't keep running around believing something that is not true.