GF damage nerf?

cowboy7481 · May 2014

i've been playing my GF non stop for ages.

i had a 20.5k GS before the module.
got dropped to 15.8 after.
and have got it back to 16.4k

my power has always been hovering the 10k mark (more now)

but after the module. my damage output has gone from a decent geared Rogue
to a normal geared cleric.

lunging strike his avg 5200 damage. 2000 points under the lowest number the power lists.

now i fully agreed the GS was wrong with the reckless attacker adding extra power to the GS. but it's like it doesn't even add my daamge right. i've got 10k power. 22% crit chance and 20% armor pen. and i can only just do the damage i used to do when when i was a 14k gs before the module..

has any other GF noticed this?

ambisinisterr · May 2014

Conqueror Feat got changed.

Not a nerf. A re-balance that I can't recall off the top of my head but at the very least they decided to lop off the false GS readings that conquerors had.

laichin1979 · May 2014

With the reworking of power most powers stayed pretty much the same, a little up actually. However, a few, and it turns out our most important pvp powers were decreased significantly.

Seem to remember it was Bullcharge, Indomnitable strength, and anvil of doom. Why they did this I don't know. They said it was only a rework of strangth so don't really see why this had such differing changes on different powers

silence1x · May 2014

I'm a casual pvp'er on my GF and I too have noticed the lowered DPS (Conq feats). I believe the rework has "balanced" some things which has led to this decrease. As such, my GF is only brought out when my HR has completed the dailies and I'm bored. A shame really because I like playing the GF.

ripyourlipsoff · May 2014

I don't think they nerfed us beyond FLS, but the new Module mobs are far tougher and it takes a long time to kill them all! I see other classes rip through them with ease however...

It's a sad day indeed to be a GF.

ambisinisterr · May 2014

Yeah, the only time I regret being a non-DPS GF is when I am doing dailies. IWD is bad but DR and Sharandar wasn't much better. The lack of DPS is a real irritant in solo content.

nazghul22 · May 2014

cowboy7481 wrote: »

i've got 10k power. 22% crit chance and 20% armor pen. and i can only just do the damage i used to do when when i was a 14k gs before the module..

For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

ripyourlipsoff · May 2014

I have 22% arp also and I gotta tell you I don't see any difference hitting mobs? I wonder if the GF encounters actually reflect the stats we raise?

vscoutv · May 2014

Yeah takes me forever to do dailies with my GF. And nothing like getting off one or two hits on a group of Quest mobs that are gonna take me over 30 seconds to kill, to have a CW come and hit with shard, and kill them off in one second. (Not meant as CW slight. One of my two mains is CW but just sayin) right now I'm at 4000 power/14% ArP/ and 8% crit at the moment. This is in T1 Knight Captain set/radiance stone/other various purples and rank 5's.

BTW, I came to boards right now to try to find what encounters others are using to do damage because I thought/think I must be doing something wrong. Right now I'm using lunging Strike/Frontline Surge/Griffons Wrath with Cleave And Threatening Rush at-wills.

Also want add that it would be nice if their swing speed wasn't ridiculously slow and there wasn't a huge delay between every action they take. For example, there's a delay between threatening rush or shield bash and other at will attack. Not saying their attacks should be TR Speed, but at least GWF Speed.

freshour · May 2014

ambisinisterr wrote: »

Yeah, the only time I regret being a non-DPS GF is when I am doing dailies. IWD is bad but DR and Sharandar wasn't much better. The lack of DPS is a real irritant in solo content.

Despite the fact that we have to do PVE now to get the new PVP gear. Do any of the mods pvp? And if so - do any of them pvp with a guardian fighter, or maybe watch the high level PVP matches? I'm sure this will get deleted, but I would love just 1 mod to reply.

You nerfed GWF's - they can kill anyone in 1 rotation except new HR's, and are nearly just as tanky.
You nerfed HR's - they are hands down the best class in 1v1 pvp, and at high levels if you don't have one, you lose.

So I ask you this, why has the GF been given nothing in over a year but gear nerfs to the only sets that made us decent, and 1 gear score nerf that gave us ONE thing over the other classes lol. Our prones were cut by 40%, our damage seems like more than that. Our bull charge doesn't knock people back hardly at all, so knocking them off points to have some form of a roll in 5v5 pvp is almost non-existent. If you do go max power/crit/ap & vorpal, use KC and crit for 30k, it doesn't matter because your prones don't last long enough to keep them down to finish them off, it doesn't hit HR's for that much, and supposedly being the tankiest class on the game (WE ARE THE TANK), TR's can take more damage, HR's can take roughly 50x more damage, and GWF's are in the middle, followed by clerics taking the same as a GWF before going down.

I am trying to keep the sarcasm and attitude down, but as one of the few GF's that still gets into high level play, and wins at that, because I know some people will say they do, but trust me, you are if anything a liability compared to another class.

I've played since open beta, and watched us go from good, to meh, to.... really? I know you are "re-working" the class, but they've said that since like the first month of the game. Not to mention you gave GWF's our paragon path which took them through the roof as far as ability to close all gaps and 1 rotation anyone lol... My guild jokes around that maybe you guys didn't mean to put us in the game, and that it was too late after you realized you had. But what do you really see a GF as? We are ok in PVE, but if you watch any high level dungeon play, GF's are usually and by usually I mean never included unless they have some friends who can pick up the slack. PVP is 10x worse. I love the class, I know every single ability, debuff, buff, that any feat and power can give and we are still WORLDS behind everyone else. I've done tact/swordsmaster/reflect builds, to vorpal/plague/fey conq builds, to all out debuffing daily spamming builds, yet they all literally suck in comparison to other classes.. So please, before you delete this, just let me know, or maybe delete it and pm me. I am honestly dying to know, and if I can get a rational explanation, I will forever hold my peace.

freshour · May 2014

vscoutv wrote: »

Yeah takes me forever to do dailies with my GF. And nothing like getting off one or two hits on a group of Quest mobs that are gonna take me over 30 seconds to kill, to have a CW come and hit with shard, and kill them off in one second. (Not meant as CW slight. One of my two mains is CW but just sayin) right now I'm at 4000 power/14% ArP/ and 8% crit at the moment. This is in T1 Knight Captain set/radiance stone/other various purples and rank 5's.

BTW, I came to boards right now to try to find what encounters others are using to do damage because I thought/think I must be doing something wrong. Right now I'm using lunging Strike/Frontline Surge/Griffons Wrath with Cleave And Threatening Rush at-wills.

Also want add that it would be nice if their swing speed wasn't ridiculously slow and there wasn't a huge delay between every action they take. For example, there's a delay between threatening rush or shield bash and other at will attack. Not saying their attacks should be TR Speed, but at least GWF Speed.

Best PVE set up for solo play. Throw your armor away, it got nerfed so bad that it doesn't really help the party anymore. Get a profound conq or preserv set, maybe even timeless if you want to. Don't put anything into defense since it's all ready soft capped, make sure you have at least 12-1500 regen, all defensive slots go radiants, offensive slots go crit/ap, never use a profound anything in the ring/belt/ammy slot, for at wills, crushing surge/threat rush, for powers, bulls, enforced threat (AOE damage), and frontline, for dailies, use villains for AOE and damage and CC resist, and also the lifesteal one in case you are low and wanna throw it up with a frontline for full health (does not work in pvp at all), put on combat superiority, and the 3% life after each enemy killed for pve, and you'll be good. For a huge set of mobs SoS daily can do work too, but play around with it. I'm sorry you got one to 60 though, you will not be wanted and usually kicked in PVE high end dungeons, and in pvp you will get wrecked in about 3 seconds until you figure it out which you'll be able to extend it to about 20-30.

seridove13 · May 2014

I too am off on the sidelines "kicking dirt" with no one to play with. I love my Guardian Fighter..but I'm not seeing a real value to any group play with her anymore. It's a shame too because IMHO..you shouldn't be able to do any dungeon content without a shield tank...but then I'm bias from oh..maybe every other MMO I've played.

seridove13 · May 2014

mateodiscus wrote: »

The reason I do not want a GF is you hurt my damage. I want mobs beating on me. The more they beat on me the more I can go unstoppable which is more damage. So its not just your damage thats hurting you. Its the class mechanic of the GWF.

And this is why I begrudgingly rolled a CW.

vscoutv · May 2014

freshour wrote: »

Best ... about 20-30.

Thanks! Gonna give it a shot. BTW this was just an alt that I invoked from about lvl 30 to 60 and finally decided to get boons for, so wasn't huge waste of time, but still disappointing because I for the most part enjoy playing him. You're right though. The only way I can get dungeon with him is to Queue and hope to join a party where someone dropped or was kicked, and they don't already have GF. Here's hoping I can get some T2 gear this way.

freshour · May 2014

Yeah, pm me and I can tell you how to do more damage than most people in your dungeons, but you still will get kicked at the later stuff probably. I can kill the majority of people on the game. But when you get into the top tier of players, the list gets very slim. It's fun to play that underdog class, but you can only do it so long before you.... Roll and GWF or an HR lol. I agree that it seems like you could or with logical thought would foresee a change in the GF class. But, to be honest, it has been that way for a long long time, and they don't really care. They have dug a hole so deep, they don't want to admit any error on their part, and people are still paying a ton of money to play the other classes so why change anything right? - That is the difference with these guys, they admit no error, act like everything is fine, and then sugar coat the living you know what out of their mistakes and then do an even or something to make people forget why they were upset in the first place lol. but if you need any GF help, these guides on here are great, but most are dated, and a lot of them have no idea what they are talking about as they don't really do much high end pvp with a guardian or know how to use it to its full (which isn't much) potential.

query523 · May 2014

I think it is the power re-work. Old power was additive. It flat added damage. Now it is multiplicative (according to tool tip) which means power's affect is based upon base weapon damage. Great if your weapons have high base damage. Not so much for GF's mediocre weapon damage. WD being why GF abilities are so much more powerful when a GWF with their extreme weapon damage uses them. REally that's it. That is what would re-ballance the GF. Give us weapons with about 200 more base damage.
Edit: actually that's kind of brilliant. Posting new thread.

ravenan · May 2014

For solo pve with preserver or low power setup U can always go Knights Chalange+Griffin Warth+Frontline. For trash frontline+cleave (GW here and there) for high health mobs knights chalange+ GW. Ull be amazed how well it works.

emilemo · May 2014

freshour wrote: »

Despite the fact that we have to do PVE now to get the new PVP gear. Do any of the mods pvp? And if so - do any of them pvp with a guardian fighter, or maybe watch the high level PVP matches? I'm sure this will get deleted, but I would love just 1 mod to reply.

You nerfed GWF's - they can kill anyone in 1 rotation except new HR's, and are nearly just as tanky.
You nerfed HR's - they are hands down the best class in 1v1 pvp, and at high levels if you don't have one, you lose.

So I ask you this, why has the GF been given nothing in over a year but gear nerfs to the only sets that made us decent, and 1 gear score nerf that gave us ONE thing over the other classes lol. Our prones were cut by 40%, our damage seems like more than that. Our bull charge doesn't knock people back hardly at all, so knocking them off points to have some form of a roll in 5v5 pvp is almost non-existent. If you do go max power/crit/ap & vorpal, use KC and crit for 30k, it doesn't matter because your prones don't last long enough to keep them down to finish them off, it doesn't hit HR's for that much, and supposedly being the tankiest class on the game (WE ARE THE TANK), TR's can take more damage, HR's can take roughly 50x more damage, and GWF's are in the middle, followed by clerics taking the same as a GWF before going down.

I am trying to keep the sarcasm and attitude down, but as one of the few GF's that still gets into high level play, and wins at that, because I know some people will say they do, but trust me, you are if anything a liability compared to another class.

I've played since open beta, and watched us go from good, to meh, to.... really? I know you are "re-working" the class, but they've said that since like the first month of the game. Not to mention you gave GWF's our paragon path which took them through the roof as far as ability to close all gaps and 1 rotation anyone lol... My guild jokes around that maybe you guys didn't mean to put us in the game, and that it was too late after you realized you had. But what do you really see a GF as? We are ok in PVE, but if you watch any high level dungeon play, GF's are usually and by usually I mean never included unless they have some friends who can pick up the slack. PVP is 10x worse. I love the class, I know every single ability, debuff, buff, that any feat and power can give and we are still WORLDS behind everyone else. I've done tact/swordsmaster/reflect builds, to vorpal/plague/fey conq builds, to all out debuffing daily spamming builds, yet they all literally suck in comparison to other classes.. So please, before you delete this, just let me know, or maybe delete it and pm me. I am honestly dying to know, and if I can get a rational explanation, I will forever hold my peace.

As a relatively fresh GF myself with a GWF main, I'm also very interested in the eventual answer to that big question. I played my Destroyer GWF since the start, endured the bad times when nobody wanted us and now I have a 16.4 GWF who excels in PVE/PVP without even gettin' out of my Profound set and without chaning even one ability. On the other hand is my GF. I won't talk about PVE since we are apparently persona non grata there. In PVP the GF is the exact opposite of a GWF, while the 2handers are chaos - they go wild, they swing fast, they move alot and ignore cc, a GF is order, he has to bide his time, take careful aim, pick his targets and time his blocks and encounters and even after all that is done perfectly what he manages to kill are mostly undergeared/unexperienced players. GF's damage is low, even with KC and 7000 power ( in Doms ) the results VS well geared people are laughable. Where has my 2000 ArmPen gone , where is the effect of Plaguefire, why does a GF hit like a wet noodle and why does crit rate scale so badly? In order for the supposed tanks to be really competitive they need a massive GS advantage and that doesnt seem right.

emilemo · May 2014

freshour wrote: »

Best PVE set up for solo play. Throw your armor away, it got nerfed so bad that it doesn't really help the party anymore. Get a profound conq or preserv set, maybe even timeless if you want to. Don't put anything into defense since it's all ready soft capped, make sure you have at least 12-1500 regen, all defensive slots go radiants, offensive slots go crit/ap, never use a profound anything in the ring/belt/ammy slot, for at wills, crushing surge/threat rush, for powers, bulls, enforced threat (AOE damage), and frontline, for dailies, use villains for AOE and damage and CC resist, and also the lifesteal one in case you are low and wanna throw it up with a frontline for full health (does not work in pvp at all), put on combat superiority, and the 3% life after each enemy killed for pve, and you'll be good. For a huge set of mobs SoS daily can do work too, but play around with it. I'm sorry you got one to 60 though, you will not be wanted and usually kicked in PVE high end dungeons, and in pvp you will get wrecked in about 3 seconds until you figure it out which you'll be able to extend it to about 20-30.

Agreed, also I'll list my stuff: Full Grim Conq set atm, CN weapons with normal PlagueFire. ~8500 power, ~2000 ArmPen/Crit, 3800 Def , ~1600 Deflect, ~1600 Rec, 5% hp regen , my HPs are at around 30K. In solo PVE I use Lunge, KC , FLS. Passives: Trample + Combat Sup, At-wills are Cleave and ToI, Daily: FR + TerImp and my GS is 14.4. With those stats and those abilities I own PVE solo. The small fish are fried with a 1 FLS and a few cleaves, any stronger target is debuffed with ToI and finished with Lunge and a few cleaves. Any super strong target is destroyed with Mark-KC-FLS-LS-ToI-Cleave ( very few survive past the LS). Its been said before but still I see many GFs running with 4000-5000 Defence and under 400 ArmPen/Crit - just dont. Get your ArmPen up, even get crit chance to 20% if you can. It will still be unreliable but when it does proc you'll be happy. Now high end party dungeons are a whole 'nother story.. sadly

ripyourlipsoff · May 2014

freshour wrote: »

Despite the fact that we have to do PVE now to get the new PVP gear. Do any of the mods pvp? And if so - do any of them pvp with a guardian fighter, or maybe watch the high level PVP matches? I'm sure this will get deleted, but I would love just 1 mod to reply.

You nerfed GWF's - they can kill anyone in 1 rotation except new HR's, and are nearly just as tanky.
You nerfed HR's - they are hands down the best class in 1v1 pvp, and at high levels if you don't have one, you lose.

So I ask you this, why has the GF been given nothing in over a year but gear nerfs to the only sets that made us decent, and 1 gear score nerf that gave us ONE thing over the other classes lol. Our prones were cut by 40%, our damage seems like more than that. Our bull charge doesn't knock people back hardly at all, so knocking them off points to have some form of a roll in 5v5 pvp is almost non-existent. If you do go max power/crit/ap & vorpal, use KC and crit for 30k, it doesn't matter because your prones don't last long enough to keep them down to finish them off, it doesn't hit HR's for that much, and supposedly being the tankiest class on the game (WE ARE THE TANK), TR's can take more damage, HR's can take roughly 50x more damage, and GWF's are in the middle, followed by clerics taking the same as a GWF before going down.

I am trying to keep the sarcasm and attitude down, but as one of the few GF's that still gets into high level play, and wins at that, because I know some people will say they do, but trust me, you are if anything a liability compared to another class.

I've played since open beta, and watched us go from good, to meh, to.... really? I know you are "re-working" the class, but they've said that since like the first month of the game. Not to mention you gave GWF's our paragon path which took them through the roof as far as ability to close all gaps and 1 rotation anyone lol... My guild jokes around that maybe you guys didn't mean to put us in the game, and that it was too late after you realized you had. But what do you really see a GF as? We are ok in PVE, but if you watch any high level dungeon play, GF's are usually and by usually I mean never included unless they have some friends who can pick up the slack. PVP is 10x worse. I love the class, I know every single ability, debuff, buff, that any feat and power can give and we are still WORLDS behind everyone else. I've done tact/swordsmaster/reflect builds, to vorpal/plague/fey conq builds, to all out debuffing daily spamming builds, yet they all literally suck in comparison to other classes.. So please, before you delete this, just let me know, or maybe delete it and pm me. I am honestly dying to know, and if I can get a rational explanation, I will forever hold my peace.

I'd like to add to this as we have no ability to raise crit beyond the 3% feat which is ridiculous, we have no ARP feats like our GWf counterparts, we have poor gear itemization, defense is just a tad higher then DPS classes and is taken down amazingly fast and we have no real self healing preservation that can't be interrupted or stopped easily by proning us, cc, slow, or stunning us!

Our damage is moot, we have to gear half pve half pvp just to raise stats to help us TRY to be viable!

snappa0126 · May 2014

ripyourlipsoff wrote: »

I don't think they nerfed us beyond FLS, but the new Module mobs are far tougher and it takes a long time to kill them all! I see other classes rip through them with ease however...

It's a sad day indeed to be a GF.

I agree that GF's take forever to kill these new mobs. I play a few different classes and I cut through mobs with my CW, HR and TR but my poor GF takes much much longer and he is geared better or equal to the others.

emilemo · May 2014

snappa0126 wrote: »

I agree that GF's take forever to kill these new mobs. I play a few different classes and I cut through mobs with my CW, HR and TR but my poor GF takes much much longer and he is geared better or equal to the others.

What path has that GF taken ? Doesnt sound like a Conq ( or is one with poor offensive stats ) and let me state right away any GF who isnt a Conq currently is nothing more than a glutton for punishment (seems to be your case with that name ). I get it that some folks want to play an invincible tank, I've had my share of those in other games but right now in this game that doesnt work. Moving on, my 14.5 GF Conq just went to ID for the first time last night. He still has Shar to complete, DR is done, still has one blue artifact to upgrade and still runs with mostly rank 7s/6s. Full profound conq set, my weapon enchant is a normal plaguefire. That being said I expected trouble in ID and was pleasantly surprised when I soloed the first encounter I came upon with ease ( granted it was an easy encounter - marauding barbarians ). Then I tried some Yetis and mama bears ( those big polars who are cc immune ) killed them with ease. Then I came upon a purple encounter with some very strong Yetis and since I was alone there with only a CW keeping me company I was pushed pretty hard but I didnt fall, more people came and we finished it. Third one was a totem, now Ive died on those with my GWF ( solo ), they have some nasty aoes, cc and crazy DMG if u dont block or run out of its way. This was harder as a GF than it was as a GWF due to one having to block and the other having Unstoppable + lifesteal but I didnt fall. I slowly tanked and killed them till two more people showed up and we finished it. So to put it in perspective my GF did way better in ID then expected.

kattefjaes · May 2014

emilemo wrote: »

What path has that GF taken ? Doesnt sound like a Conq ( or is one with poor offensive stats ) and let me state right away any GF who isnt a Conq currently is nothing more than a glutton for punishment .

This is simply not true for PvP, prone-happy Tactician works at least as well, if not better. Given that no spec is particularly useful for a GF in PvE now, that would seem to be more of a consideration. Going Conq for PvE purposes isn't going to make enough of a difference, you'll still kill stuff as fast as a CW/GWF with 5k less GS.

GF damage nerf?

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