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Suggestion for new type of PvP: AOS type arena (!!)
kweassa
Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
I was thinking about how certain builds/tactics concerning certain classes are considered "viable" and others not -- and the actors outside of the the build/spec itself that influences such views. For example, currently, the only PvP format we have is the 3-node domination, with distances relatively close to each other, making it highly preferable to run (so-called) "back door strategies" where stopping a node's point-gain by either harassing it, or taking it over completely.
Now, as mentioned, the distances between nodes, as well as spawn points are relatively close to each other, making it very easy to attempt to do it again and again. Also, the way points are earned, is by standing on the node-circle itself -- which naturally brings up the importance of builds that can contest the nodes by lasting longer. The emphasis on damage relatively goes down, and "unkillable" tanky builds become the norm. Even when you cannot kill anyone, you can troll a node by just surviving on it against multiple enemies forever. The longer you can troll a node with fewer people (ideally, with only one person -- ie. the TR), your team essentially shuts its function down. The more enemies you frustrate and bait to the node, the easier for the other members of your team to control the other two. Hence, under this type of gameplay tanky build-classes are considered "viable", while others are not.
A very drastic example of how this effects PvP builds/tactics in a rather negative way would be TRs. There can be essentially many varieties of TR builds that could be useful in team situations, using different types of stat investment, encounters, at-wills, etc.. However, currently none of these are considered "viable", because the current meta of Domination matches have shifted towards the "node-harassment" tactics as described above. Hence, any TR that cannot infiltrate the "back door", or last long against multiple enemies alone (ie. TRs without ITC, or non-INT/REC dependant) are generally considered worthless.
My recent experiences with the Open PvP Domination matches in IWD, gave me some interesting ideas.
An open-world surrounding, is fun. High-low height differences, terrain features such as obstacles that obstruct the line of sight, a huge area which makes it easily possible for people to escape (unlike the closed spaces in arena matches)... it is all refreshing.
So then, do we really need to settle for a domination match with such a wide setting? Why cannot we expect an AOS type of PvP match with the same type of wide-map settings?
League of Legends would probably be easily the most famous and popular AOS type game currently. However there are also other games such as DOTA series, as well as the up-coming Heroes of the Storm from Blizzard. AOS is a very popular genre by itself... but the really awesome thing to realize, is that it is not impossible to recreate similar type of game play in MMOGs!
We've already seen wide-map/terrain PvP realized through the OPvP in IWD. Then surely, it is possible to use such wide, natural-looking terrains as a huge PvP arena map. Same 5 vs 5 matchup, but the map would be riddled with not just one node, but multiple nodes with wide distances between each other. Just as any AOS type game, mobs can be scripted to spawn at certain rates, and then progressively advance towards the enemies.
The nodes would basically function exactly the same as the towers in LOL, which can detect stealth, deal out very powerful attacks that hurt even the toughest of the classes, and requires concentrated effort to destroy.
Basically, under this kind of PvP the current "standard" of building classes could also change. More PvE type of builds which are oriented around AoE and damage could just as well be justified in a setting like this. The small-scale 1vs1 fights would not have much meaning, and classes with builds that can support the big mob vs mob fights, as well as tower sieges could bring in new possibilities -- perhaps make it a bit more fun for PvEers who find it difficult to drop their current build and switch totally to a PvP build. AOS like LOL is basically a mix of PvP and PvE in a large, integrated arena that revolves around a large-scale strategy, where people spread out to each of the "lines" to handle towers.
More than anything, many people who play the AOS genre of games also play Neverwinter. It could easily be a PvP setup where both PvP and PvE players with variety of different builds or skill level can enjoy -- something new, fresh.
Hence, I strongly recommend to the developers to make it possible to see an AOS type of PvP map in the future. I can guarantee its gonna be great fun.
Now, as mentioned, the distances between nodes, as well as spawn points are relatively close to each other, making it very easy to attempt to do it again and again. Also, the way points are earned, is by standing on the node-circle itself -- which naturally brings up the importance of builds that can contest the nodes by lasting longer. The emphasis on damage relatively goes down, and "unkillable" tanky builds become the norm. Even when you cannot kill anyone, you can troll a node by just surviving on it against multiple enemies forever. The longer you can troll a node with fewer people (ideally, with only one person -- ie. the TR), your team essentially shuts its function down. The more enemies you frustrate and bait to the node, the easier for the other members of your team to control the other two. Hence, under this type of gameplay tanky build-classes are considered "viable", while others are not.
A very drastic example of how this effects PvP builds/tactics in a rather negative way would be TRs. There can be essentially many varieties of TR builds that could be useful in team situations, using different types of stat investment, encounters, at-wills, etc.. However, currently none of these are considered "viable", because the current meta of Domination matches have shifted towards the "node-harassment" tactics as described above. Hence, any TR that cannot infiltrate the "back door", or last long against multiple enemies alone (ie. TRs without ITC, or non-INT/REC dependant) are generally considered worthless.
My recent experiences with the Open PvP Domination matches in IWD, gave me some interesting ideas.
An open-world surrounding, is fun. High-low height differences, terrain features such as obstacles that obstruct the line of sight, a huge area which makes it easily possible for people to escape (unlike the closed spaces in arena matches)... it is all refreshing.
So then, do we really need to settle for a domination match with such a wide setting? Why cannot we expect an AOS type of PvP match with the same type of wide-map settings?
League of Legends would probably be easily the most famous and popular AOS type game currently. However there are also other games such as DOTA series, as well as the up-coming Heroes of the Storm from Blizzard. AOS is a very popular genre by itself... but the really awesome thing to realize, is that it is not impossible to recreate similar type of game play in MMOGs!
We've already seen wide-map/terrain PvP realized through the OPvP in IWD. Then surely, it is possible to use such wide, natural-looking terrains as a huge PvP arena map. Same 5 vs 5 matchup, but the map would be riddled with not just one node, but multiple nodes with wide distances between each other. Just as any AOS type game, mobs can be scripted to spawn at certain rates, and then progressively advance towards the enemies.
The nodes would basically function exactly the same as the towers in LOL, which can detect stealth, deal out very powerful attacks that hurt even the toughest of the classes, and requires concentrated effort to destroy.
Basically, under this kind of PvP the current "standard" of building classes could also change. More PvE type of builds which are oriented around AoE and damage could just as well be justified in a setting like this. The small-scale 1vs1 fights would not have much meaning, and classes with builds that can support the big mob vs mob fights, as well as tower sieges could bring in new possibilities -- perhaps make it a bit more fun for PvEers who find it difficult to drop their current build and switch totally to a PvP build. AOS like LOL is basically a mix of PvP and PvE in a large, integrated arena that revolves around a large-scale strategy, where people spread out to each of the "lines" to handle towers.
More than anything, many people who play the AOS genre of games also play Neverwinter. It could easily be a PvP setup where both PvP and PvE players with variety of different builds or skill level can enjoy -- something new, fresh.
Hence, I strongly recommend to the developers to make it possible to see an AOS type of PvP map in the future. I can guarantee its gonna be great fun.
Stop making excuses. Be a man.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Post edited by kweassa on
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Comments
Um... Gauntlgrym ring a bell?
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Zerglgrym isn't much of an AoS in that it lacks some key elements. For one thing, much too many players make difficult for any coherent tactic/strategy. It's not much more than literally; (a) run around as a big mass of horses, (b) avoid combat, (c) go take empty nodes, and (d) engage only stragglers.
Compared to Zerglgrym, I'm thinking a bit more AoS type arena where it should use a bit of pve/scripted elements to precisely force a fight, making it difficult to just "go to empty node en masse and stand there".
For one thing it should be near impossible to just solo a node/tower by yourself -- which is the reason why the "line fight" would first ensue, assisting your PvE troops to clear and push back the enemy PvE troops, and then pushing the powerful/tower node which does fight back. So a line is being pushed, some of your team goes there to push it back, other lines are empty, the enemy tries to push there, etc etc.. the classic LOL or DOTA moment.
Compared to this Zerglgrym is... well... just not up to the standards in what people find it "fun" with AoS type of games.
The positive thing is, Cryptic already has some experience with these types of game elements -- if anyone remembers the epic battles between the Longbow and the Arachnos"!
The AoS genre didn't even exist back in the day when the Longbow and the Arachnos would duke it out in Siren't Call or Warburg or Recluse's Victory and etc etc.. and Cryptic already pretty much successfully featured a AoS-like gameplay even back then! The genre "AoS" wasn't even invented yet!
It is only logical that they use that experience to the fullest, IMO.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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