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My problem with DC's in this game
irked01
Banned Users Posts: 91
Every class has issues (well cept maybe GWF's) but another thread on that one. What I want to talk about is the DC and how it needs to be seriously looked at by the devs SOONER then LATER.
It baffles me how our T1 set High Prophet is the BEST set we have for all end-game. I have yet to see even 25% of DC's who do end-game wear anything other then this set and why not it is 30% debuff on all mobs I hit. No other set can compete and that to me is well WRONG.
This needs to be looked at and fixed asap.
Our solobility is not an issue but how fast we can do it compared to other classes is an issue. Every single class can do faster solo content and have just as little issue with health as we do. I find it funny as heck that in some instances my CW kills 10x faster then my DC and leaves the match with 100% health left while my DC has 25-30% left.
PvP we MUST have a good team to be able to do our job we are the ONLY class that has this issue in pvp. (besides I guess CW's at high end game pvp) We also need specific group setup to survive on node fightings as I have noticed unless I have a GF or GWF that can knockback or prone I myself end up dieing alot more.
In those matches I end up with all ranged classes or ranged and TRs I die 10x more then when I am on a team with a GWF or GF (that knows how to peel from me) I am again the only class that suffers from this issue.
I am worried that with the release of Mod 3 we will get left behind UNLESS we have a good group of people to pvp with in the open world area. As again DC's cant really beat anyone 1v1 (equally geared and skilled) or it will take way to long and a faction member will show up and help them.
I fail to see why the DC class doesn't have a paragon path that allows us to have really good DPS and crud heals let us CHOOSE which path we want to go. Just wish DC's would get looked at and given some love I feel that I am simply everyone's lil B*tch.
It baffles me how our T1 set High Prophet is the BEST set we have for all end-game. I have yet to see even 25% of DC's who do end-game wear anything other then this set and why not it is 30% debuff on all mobs I hit. No other set can compete and that to me is well WRONG.
This needs to be looked at and fixed asap.
Our solobility is not an issue but how fast we can do it compared to other classes is an issue. Every single class can do faster solo content and have just as little issue with health as we do. I find it funny as heck that in some instances my CW kills 10x faster then my DC and leaves the match with 100% health left while my DC has 25-30% left.
PvP we MUST have a good team to be able to do our job we are the ONLY class that has this issue in pvp. (besides I guess CW's at high end game pvp) We also need specific group setup to survive on node fightings as I have noticed unless I have a GF or GWF that can knockback or prone I myself end up dieing alot more.
In those matches I end up with all ranged classes or ranged and TRs I die 10x more then when I am on a team with a GWF or GF (that knows how to peel from me) I am again the only class that suffers from this issue.
I am worried that with the release of Mod 3 we will get left behind UNLESS we have a good group of people to pvp with in the open world area. As again DC's cant really beat anyone 1v1 (equally geared and skilled) or it will take way to long and a faction member will show up and help them.
I fail to see why the DC class doesn't have a paragon path that allows us to have really good DPS and crud heals let us CHOOSE which path we want to go. Just wish DC's would get looked at and given some love I feel that I am simply everyone's lil B*tch.
Post edited by irked01 on
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Regen is helpful for a cleric at all times. From time to time even with a decent party and especially if you have Burning Guidance, you'll get some aggro. In solo play I find it useful because my damage is all burst. Rather than facetanking with my at-wills, I just kite mobs/boss around until everything is off cooldown. Surprisingly, Lifesteal can be effective for dailies as well. Using my strategy, you're either dealing burst damage (LS heals) or kiting/avoiding damage (regen heals). My bar for soloing Flame Strike/Hammer of Fate, Divine Glow/Daunting Light/Sunburst (last could be chains depending on content) with my at will mostly being Brand of the Sun/doesn't matter.
Most geared DCs will be runnng HP which helps a lot. Otherwise cheap blues from the AH. Armor Pen is important as it does affect Daunting, which is my major source of damage. Boss fights are still slower than my other chars, but almost always after the fight I'm nearly at full health. If I finish the boss with Daunting, life steal may restore me to full.
I don't PVP much and really don't like it on my cleric. People have always justified a DC not being able to 1vs1 because GG/Domination are team games. That's not going to matter much in open world.
I dont want to scare you but thats the reality in MOD 3
Wrong.
CWs must also have a good team in PVP or else they are easily focused on and killed over and over and over and over again.
Last time a unliked class (GF) made much use of a badly designed set distribution they nerved that set into oblivion and made it utterly entirely useless. (Stalwart Bulwark), and there are already discussions to kill the KC set as well.
Thank you for pointing this DC issue out.
We have 2 way that might be taken now:
1) nerf the HP set
2) improve the other 5 PvE sets
I certainly know on which number I would bet my money.
This is so frustrating that the classes that are interesting and hard to play are also the classes that are nerved the most and liked the least by the devs.
5 CW parties are not my thing, sorry.
Maybe we'll get something with module 4.
Gwf's issue is named "mod3". 60% overall damage less, Unstoppable duration reduced, foe debuff removed.
That should put them in line with the other classes then.
As far as the HP set. I don't think the devs have ever mentioned nerfing it. While it's possible of course, the Bulwark issue isn't a valid comparison. The original bonus for that set was out of bounds even if it had been T2.5. (not that what they did to it was fair, mind you.) KC is getting reworked due to the way Power is changing, but it's not intended as a nerf to the set - time will tell whether it is a nerf, but it doesn't seem to be the intent of the change.
Compare to other T1s like the CW's Archmage. Archmage is easily one of the strongest sets CWs have. It's one of the best alternatives to High Vizier and arguably -the- best CW set if there's already one other CW using HV.
DCs have superior AoE burst damage potential so if you're struggling with solo content you're doing something wrong. If you're killing things too slowly even after you get better gear you're doing something wrong. Learn to better use your attack powers and do yourself a favor and don't slot heals in solo PvE unless you're newly 60. And don't bother comparing DCs (or any class for that matter) to wizards in solo PvE, it doesn't work.
DCs are -not- completely helpless in PvP and a properly positioned DC stacking defensive stats/tenacity can be very. very hard to kill. They are ill-equipped for winning solo fights though, especially given the current meta. It is true though that overall DCs have to (partially) rely on their teammates to "carry" them to victory. This may have something to do with how powers like Hallowed Ground can potentially give you the equivalent DPS gain of Perfect Vorpal depending on how much crit your allies have even while granting mitigation... but surely not. It must be because we can use laser beams in PvP. Yes, it's that.
We already have a path that rewards attacking. It's called the Divine Oracle, and it was the very first DC paragon path available. If you had spent more time playing preview and discovering the joys of using Terrifying Insight + aoe spam instead of wallowing around the forums in self-pity, which you shouldn't do because there are even worse people than I who haunt this section of the forums, you'd know this.
I do see a issue in PVP, my new AC build allows me to stay on node for a long time but Im only defeating a small percantage, in open world thats going to suck.. but then again... so isnt allowing pets.
I dont see HP as the end of all sets, I prefer MH most of the time honestly, but I have both sets and a profound and switch all the time between stuff.
I see some issues with this class, but I doubt most of them will be fixed (feats for one, how can they justify the horrendous feats, worst of any clas Ive played anyways. 50% are just worthless, 25% are near worthless and you have to spend points to get to the other actual 25% worthy feats on subpar ones.)
MH is a nice solo or even PvP set. But unlike HP it doesn't benefit teams in PVE dungeons like HP does.
Agreed. They should remove some of the junk Heroic feats and replace with damage buffs. Virtuous branch should add even more damage buffs. DC needs less garbage heal feats and more % damage buffs. Combat encounters need some serious work as well since, in my opinion, FF is the only workable combat encounter in PvP.
the profound virtuous set is much better, it got ~ 300 less stat them miracle healer but no other set offer deflection (and after you reach 3k cirt, recovery and def it very good stat to have)
the set bonus is also great, my divinity is always full and 7.5% healing is always good
I also don't feel like making different set for pvp and for pve
overall I agree, most armor set bonus is really bad
I have all the divinity feats, regardless of the armour set I use, the only time I need the extra divinity would be in pvp itself , where I have limited amount of attacks.
HP is great and I use it alot, but I see no reason to slot it all the time during trash runs, I do swap it out when Im at a boss fight where I do not need to kite, if Im kiting then its MH again.
It all depends on the group of course, If Im doing no healing then I keep HP on all the time and may in fact slot DG, SB and Chains if I see my shield isnt being used or the team doesnt need it (I would do DL but unless I have CWs always keeping mobs centralized its really too slow to bother with.
Diana (15,4 DC)
BigHalf (15,5 GF)
People DO notice, because two or three stacks of HP on a monster (which admittedly is usually only big dudes and bosses, because trash is too numerous and dies too quickly) leads to really really silly crits. And really silly crits leads to happy dps peeps.
You can get two/three stacks really easily with a divine glow followed by an astral seal (which you should be doing ANYWAY) and maybe a hit or two of sacred flame, so it's not terribly difficult to maintain, and it's (to my mind) usually more useful than a random heal of 1.5-2k every few seconds. Hell, you can practically do those with repurpose soul... :P
I agree. We need good choices to either go damage/battle cleric or healing cleric...but so far we have neither. Our healing is gimpy and mediocre...to many HOT's in a spike damage world, and lets not get started on our inability to effectively heal ourselves. It's great and all that I can kinda reduce potion usage for my group, but I don't see anyone chipping in to help with my potion expenses due to cruddy self healing. I am in my second tier set of lv60 pvp gear (grim armor) and I still feel like my avatar runs around with a flashing neon sign over his head reading "FREE KILL HERE!". Yes, we do need better options to compete in the damage game if one so chooses, but it would be nice if Cryptic fixed us as healers first. Afterall, If I had wanted to play a DPS class, I would have picked something else. I wanted to play a great healing and support class however and unfortunately this is not something the DC does extremely well either....and still the nerf bat from the devs continues to beat us silly. I have put my foot down to not spend another dime on this game in it's current state because as DC I feel like a gimped cripple in PvE and an easy kill/honor boost to opponents in PvP. I'm quickly losing interest in Neverwinter, but really trying to hold on in hopes that DC's will get the boost and fixes we need.
In regards to the GWF "Nerf" it made the sentinel set up do a little less dmg. I haven't noticed a huge difference on my GWF alt and I'm not bothering to respec her for something so minor, at least not currently. I know a bunch of GWF's who have no swapped over to destroyer and OMG do they hit hard. 20k takedown crits, they're destroying peopple. I've watched them drop geared people with two encounter crits. Also, TR's were supposively "Nerfed" but I'm honestly having a harder time with msot of them post patch...
Mod 3 has no effect on domination/GG so I don't see much of an issue. the open world pvp seems pretty casual so far and the simple fact that tenacity doesn't apply, PVE pots are allowed, companion stacking means there is less balance and therefore less meaningful matches. Add in the fact that there no cap on the amount of players so zerg tactics will rule the realm. It doesn't strike me as a solo type of play anyways, but since it's an open zone you don't need an actualy party to go it with other people. Just don't run off by yourself, stick with other people from the same faction. People are just zerging around together so trying to much by yourself is probably a gaurantee for mutliple deaths