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Weapon Enchantment Questions
godlysoul2
Member Posts: 661 Bounty Hunter
1)Is it possible for weapon enchantment damage get deflected?
2) How long does the Feytouched enchantment effect last for?
2*) Is perfect Feytouched enchantment providing the proper buff/debuffs as described or is it bugged?
3) Are the stacks of Plaguefire enchant still broken? (Will greater still only give -15% defense regardless of number of stacks?)
2) How long does the Feytouched enchantment effect last for?
2*) Is perfect Feytouched enchantment providing the proper buff/debuffs as described or is it bugged?
3) Are the stacks of Plaguefire enchant still broken? (Will greater still only give -15% defense regardless of number of stacks?)
Post edited by godlysoul2 on
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2) feytouched has a 10 second uptime and a 10 second cooldown, giving it 50% uptime
2*) It seems like it works for most classes, tbh, I have mixed results using it with specific dc/cw encounters but not sure about the other classes
Plague Fire is not broken. It works correctly
Perfect Terror deals 12% damage and reduces defence on the target by 20%.
Greater Plague Fire deals 7.5% and burns for an extra 2.5% per stack, which sums up to 7.5%+3*2.5%=15% total damage, while it reduces defence by 15%.
If Greater Plague Fire would stack the defence debuff, too, then you would get a 45% reduction and this would make it obviously over-powered.
Right now is it on par with Terror and we do not need more imbalances, but less.
Yeah, I am not sure why I was led to believe that the defense debuffs should stack. It makes more sense that it wouldn't for sure, but in comparison terror/plague fire are still not viable in comparison to vorpal/ bile (depending on class) with those numbers unfortunately though.
Thanks!
Bilethorn seems stronger than others, because of the sum of the damage one can deal, but not all weapons are the same and deal the same amount of damage. You get different results with Bilethorn depending on which class uses it. The 4 second delay of Bilethorn then makes it less useful when fighting weak mobs, because these can often be cleared in less than 4 seconds and so the extra damage is often lost before it makes a difference. And against bosses, where Bilethorn becomes more effective, do defense reductions become more effective, too.
Also speaking of Vorpal... I wonder how much damage 5 players with Vorpal can do compared to 4 players with Vorpal and one player with Terror. It might well be the defence reduction by a single Terror enhancement out-weights the extra damage by a 5th Vorpal, because the 4 players with Vorpal enhancements will all deal more damage and likely more than what a 5th Vorpal would add to the bill...
Talking bout 3 stacks of plaguefire debuff rather than 3 stacks meaning just of the damage portion. I remember conversations with people back in the day closer to when I started saying that plaguefire should stack the defense debuff 3 times but didn't due to a bug and that stuck with me thinking that it was supposed to apply it 3 times for some reason.
As to your hypothetical, the four other players would deal a significant increase in damage if one person used terror over the run, whereas the one using the terror would have less DPS if they had used vorpal. It will usually equate to faster runs however, due to how buffs and debuffs work.
Hypothetically speaking, a group would want a DC, wearing High Prophet (30% mitigation reduction = ~6% more damage), along with linked spirit (25% more stats) and Divine Glow (15% mitigation debuff (15% more damage in divine mode)), a GF wearing the Knights Captain set (60% more power for the team) and tactician feated (increases the effectiveness of Into the Fray, along with several other mitigation debuffs), a GWF with student of the sword, destroyer feated, and a CW running High Vizier (9% damage PER stack), and Thamauturge feated (for the multiple mitigation debuffs it causes the typical AoE set up to provide).
Fifth doesn't really matter, another CW for control and more debuff uptime, another GWF for another student of the sword debuff (they stack ATM). A TR could find a place as wicked reminder is a HUUUGE debuff, just hard to keep on the target, if it's not a boss. It is AoE however and can apply a 30% mitigation debuff on a singularity of mobs when used from stealth.
Anywho... you'd want a terror, GPF and the rest vorpals for highest DPS output.
I guess at this point it really doesn't matter if it is intended to stack the debuff 3 times or not. The real question is whether it actually only applies -15% Defense or - 45% Defense for 3 stacks of plaguefire.
I may need to find someone for testing if we cant come to a common conclusion
I suppose this is PvE, I haven't really tested it in PvP.
Alright, thanks. I'll attempt to find links.
EDIT: So this is what I was talking about as far as it being bugged before:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?535171-Plague-Fire-Enchant-(Shadowmantle)/page2&highlight=plaguefire
Overall though, I did find that people say it does indeed apply x3 stacks of the defense debuff. However, (at least for PvE), it appears that it isn't actually a debuffer as it is a flat damage buff. Still not 100% sure if that is true for PvP too or not, but it seems to be from what I understand from some of the posts.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?640981-Terror-and-Plaguefire-Enchantments/page2&highlight=plaguefire
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?637051-How-arm-penetration-def-reduction-mitigation-exactly-work&highlight=plaguefire
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?598821-Plague-Fire-Enchant-Fixed&highlight=plaguefire
I'm not sure why plaguefire isn't used more in PvP than terror though considering the minor damage differences and the extreme difference in cost. People do say that it is more effective at maintaining its damage rather than relying on stacks though.
Yeah it doesn't make sense at all because I'd be getting 13.6% damage boost overall from P.Terror per hit where I'd be getting 18% boost if I could maintain only 2 stacks of plague fire at a time and 21% if I could do 3.
This is using 1500 dmg per hit on average with 1200 wep damage (HR). It really doesn't matter because bilethorn is still 18.8%. Guess I don't need to worry about it after all
GPF Pros:
1. Everyone benefits from the reduction of defense, making burst go insane in a 2v1 burst.
2. DoT damage can consistently dismount a player.
3. It does more damage than Terror and is cost effective.
4. Crit is less important so stacking arp/power can be done
GPF Cons:
1. Hit someone with an emblem, they're healed back to full.
2. In a 1v1 matchup, the debuff < the vorpal burst.
3. Consistently keeping stacks up against multiple targets is difficult.
4. Overall the damage output is less than vorpal.
DC, GWF, and GF are best using this enchant. As an HR your burst is one of the biggest in the game, so you should be the one with vorpal and someone else should assist you with GPF to maximize the damage. CWs crit way too often with Eye of the Storm to even consider any other enchant. TRs just shouldn't use GPF.
Knight Captain's set bonus does however not give 60%, but it is 15% once you factor in the chance. You cannot just say it increase everything by 60% when it only has got a 25% chance to occur. It is also only a T1 armor set and there are better armor sets around, which may only increase a GF's chance to survive and this is something much harder to pack in numbers. Or ask yourself what good a buff is when your man who is supposed to provide it keeps dying, not to mention that he is your tank?
I hope we can at least agree when I say that it is not all that simple.
How does i.e. the 45% mitigation debuff of GPF translate into 9% more damage?
How can the defense reduction by High Vizier be such a higher damage increase in comparison to GPF? I mean, -1350 defense translates to, let's say for a simple example, -25% mitigation. How can this be better than -45% mitigation from GPF?
Why is Wicked Reminder such a "huge" debuff? At 5 stacks its -20% mitigation. Again, how can this be better than -45% mitigation from GPF (and I understand it's better, if a word like "huge" is mentioned)?
Independently of me understanding this stuff, here a practial question: If I, as a CW, have to choose as my 4th power Chill Strike (adds 2 HV stacks, which, based on this quoted post, translates to +18% damage) and Thaumaturge feated Conduit of Ice (-15% damage mitigation), Chill Strike is the better choice?
I'm sorry if I use the word "mitigation" here wrong, but as I said: I still don't really understand the debuffing stuff.
Thanks to anyone willing to help.
I may not understand it 100% either, but if you check the links I put up, basically it looks like the term "mitigation" is inappropriate labeling from the designers part because the actual effect of "mitigation" like plaguefire or terror is actually calculated as just being a straight percent increase in damage. (3% per greater plague fire stack and ~4% for terror)
The Defense stat follows a function, which determines the damage resistance similar to how the other stats work. If then an effect reduces the Defense stat of a target, opposed to directly lowering a target's damage resistance, can this result in a different amount of reduced damage resistance, and is first influenced by the aforementioned function.
Because a high Defense stat only gives diminishing returns can a reduction of a high Defense stat also only result in a small reduction of the damage resistance. It is therefore not possible to say to what amount of damage it will always lead. Saying that a 30% reduction of a target's Defense stat is the same as dealing 10% more damage (i.e.) is nonsense, because the function for the Defense stat just is not linear.
This also opens Pandora's Box of Unknowns, because it is unknown if mobs actually have a Defense stat next to a damage resistance value, and if the same function applies (which includes feats and the AC value), or if they only have a damage resistance value. If it is the later then it is also unknown how effects like a reduction in Defense get calculated.
At best can one sample the various effects, write down their numbers, and produce a formula to describe them. Some players have done this and these formulas can be found on the web. But there is not yet a complete description of all the effects, and with various bugs (or perhaps these are further effects that are being perceived as bugs...) plus the upcoming game expansion, which is going to introduce further changes, is this more of an ongoing "battle between inquisitive players versus developers" than an exact science.
Unless someone can say they have examined it and done a sufficient amount of research to give verifiable numbers and formulas, can one only trust in hear-say or what others believe to be true.
What is misleading is that the Armor Penetration has got a cap, while others do not. Armor Penetration can only take away what is there and it will not turn a target's damage reduction negative. Other similar effects then not only stack with Armor Penetration but are allowed to turn a target's damage reduction negative. While you can have a lot of Armor Penetration will you not exceed 100% damage with it, but you can use it to deal 100% and have it stack with other debuffs, which then result in more than 100% damage being dealt. And, when effects stack does it also not change the cap for Armor Penetration, meaning, when one effect lowers a target's damage reduction from 24% to 10%, will this not set the cap for Armor Penetration to 10%, but it will continue to use the original 24% as its cap.
It does not make a lot of sense, but this is how it appears to work.