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A solution to OP specs/classes in PVP- 1 new additional game mode
hamletswords
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
People in the legit channel mentioned a good idea to help PVP and eliminate OP specs and classes- adding an additional game mode that's not about holding points.
For example, perma rogue is only OP because it can hold a point better than any other class. In a game mode that wasn't about contesting points, a combat rogue would actually be better.
There's lots of different game modes that are tried and true for this kind of thing- capture the flag, deathmatch, etc.
Adding any one of them would alleviate many of the problems with OP specs and classes (although GWF is still likely to be pretty OP in anything, but at least it would fix the perma stealth problem without further nerfing rogues).
For example, perma rogue is only OP because it can hold a point better than any other class. In a game mode that wasn't about contesting points, a combat rogue would actually be better.
There's lots of different game modes that are tried and true for this kind of thing- capture the flag, deathmatch, etc.
Adding any one of them would alleviate many of the problems with OP specs and classes (although GWF is still likely to be pretty OP in anything, but at least it would fix the perma stealth problem without further nerfing rogues).
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
Post edited by hamletswords on
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Not gonna end well for other classes.
If you really want to balance perma-stealth, reduce its biggest advantage: 1v1 matches.
Increase the number of nodes and amounts of players. Make it 20vs20. This will lessen the importance of 1v1 matches within the PVP meta.
You don't have to nerf perma-stealth...yet you just did at the same time by changing the PVP-meta
You don't have to buff the lesser classes such as CW and DC.....yet you just did by increasing the importance of support
Perma-rogues don't do a lot of damage (outside of shocking execution). I'm not sure what good a perma rogue dancing around in steath in a 5v5 deathmatch would be, tossing 700 damage knives at you every once in awhile.
Yeah I mean I would love to have lots of different modes. I actually really like the PVP in this game and think the combat is great.
I'm not shooting for the moon though. Just 1 different one would be great.
- as a CW you will mostly have a bad time
- as a DC you're probably next on the list
- as a TR you will have a great time running around as usual and harassing people to death
- as a GWF you will have a great time as usual charging around like crazy and killing anything squishy in seconds
- GFs might do quite well too
- HRs will do relatively good only if they aren't first on focusing list...
The issue with class balance in Neverwinter is actually extremely simple:
- only the TR and GWF have proper defensive mechanics: Stealth, ITC, Unstoppable. The HR is quite close with limited stealth and 5 dodges/PvP set heals on deflect.
This is why I stick to these classes.
In other MMOs I have played, all classes had abilities that gave them limited protection from burst and some escaping mechanic, or they were very sturdy. 2-3 dodges or teleports aren't that good and cannot compare.
That's not the actual problem.
The CW WOULD have good escapabillity if the CC powers weren't so nerfed. That IS supposed to be its escapabillity. The Chill Strike Freeze, the Icy Rays Root, the Entangling Force Hold Person style abillities. That is its escape mode.
Unfortunately those have been shortened to such an extent they cannot be maintained for very long at all removing all escapabillity.
Throw in reduced damage for PvP and its a double whammy for a class who was never a good single target damager in the first place.
Let's hope mod 3 gives people overall positive reasons to PVP. However, the maps that allow competitive play aren't being changed. Neverwinter's competitive community will stay small and immature, again with more reasons not to participate.
I used to think this way, after playing a CW, then GWF, then TR, but now that I'm playing an HR, CW CC is really a pain and pretty much the only thing that can reliably lock me down (can't dodge icy root which can come out of nowhere, unlike GWF/GF prones).
I just don't think that a longer duration on CC would actually help a CW because the main ways people get out of it- unstoppable, ITC, will still be there, regardless of the duration.
TR's will still be great, but a recovery/INT stacking perma-rogue will not be as effective as combat rogues when the focus of a mode shifts from surviving to killing. If there was multiple modes, it might encourage more rogues to ease up on the stealth.
Really there would be little point in having so much stealth if you have nowhere to go and no place to be.
Let's open up the Foundry to PvP and see what the community can come up with.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
1v1 matches last a long time. Its all about staying alive, regenerating health and efficient popping of your rotations.
No class does a lot of damage anymore (used to be CWs until tenacity nerfed burst damage)
When I said "deathmatch", I was thinking more of a 5v5 Arena style match where you get points for kills, not a 1v1 situation. That would just cause way more problems.
And permas use no damaging abilities outside of their dailies. I'm talking Int-stacking, recovery-stacking, perma perma rogues here, not rogues that use stealth a lot (all rogues use stealth).
You drop the flag when you stealth. Hopefully.
No they don't do a lot of damage. I'm saying they are able to maintain doing damage while having defensive abilities to sustain their life.
5v5 deathmatch arena will still usually favor the PVP meta of 1v1 matches.
Like I already suggested, a 20vs20 or 15vs15 match takes away from the importance of 1v1 matches and in turn, gives CWs a better support role
There is already a 20 vs 20 match- Gauntlgrym. As you know, it just turns into a NASCAR zerg fest, and any of the classes that are OP in regular domination are also OP in it as well. I'd prefer 5v5 in different modes to maintain the skill factor, maybe up to a 10v10.
Well first of all GG doesn't occur most of the time. I didn't say make it exactly like GG. They could implement some mechanics to prevent people from just going around nodes capturing them. OP classes are less effective because there are more players.
You are opposed to the running around the nodes thing, not the 20vs20 thing. I am suggesting a new 20vs20 game mode.
5vs5 domination has failed to maintain a skill factor throughout different classes though. So I disagree there. There is little skill in making a perma-TR buying rank 10s, emblem and spending 5 minutes reading rotations to kill a CW.
I have presented this "problem" before and what I think is a "better" solution is this:
Remove Contesting from pvp.
Once a team captures the node, it either ticks for Team A or Team B. Now if they send a perma to your home base, he will not stop your team from getting points just by "contesting".
The TWO variants to how this could pan out are:
1) Must eliminate the enemy team in order to capture their node - like a click to cast capture, or just once there is no enemy on the node you start the capture.
2) If you have TWO players on a team and only 1 opposing, the team with 2 players starts capturing the node - much like it is now.
The only difference with option 2 and now is that when its 1v1, it does you no good to "contest" or "stalemate" the node.
This would remove the "contesting" or "stalemating" strategy and now its actually really easy to counter a perma - send 2 ppl, they capture the node, and leave 1 person behind to win points for the team not allowing the perma to negate the points....
This would not only speed games up, removes the "contesting" strategy that has dominated the game (no pun intended) since it began, it makes the games MUCH more fun and fast paced.
This puts a HUGE HUGE emphasis on team work and less emphasis on having 1 uber geared TR/GWF on your team to do that role...
This combined with my "weapon swapping/2 encounter bar" idea would forever change the PVP in this game and make it AMAZING.
THEN, it would be EASY and AWESOME to come in and add games like:
- Slayer
- King of the Hill (basically a single node domination map)
- CTF (Large long map with flags at each end)
ETC......
If they did this, NW would literally be unstoppable PVP wise and there would be a HUGE influx of players.
Personally I would like to see "take the keep/castle" type matches where there are two forts on opposing sides of a large battlefield with a substantial amount of pve soldiers (fodder) for each side. So each side with have an "army" to fight with/through, and the two teams of 5 would be like the elite of the armies. Would be fun.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Dream on. This is simply not one of the options on the table for the stealth re-work.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aren't you a GWF?
If I were you, I'd stay quiet in a corner and hope nobody notices me while they dreaming nerfs.
or the devs could stop being so lazy and try and balance the more stupid things (gwf, perma stealth, no drs). pvp is maybe the worst in any game i have played. and it could be so good. but sheer laziness has gimped it.
Eh, I don't know. I think that would hurt classes that are better at contesting than killing (DCs, GFs), who aren't really considered OP and don't need to be hurt.
I also like feeling like I'm dying as a hero if I'm contesting a node 1v3.