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Are PVP and PVE mutually exclusive for CW's?
pointsman
Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
Can anyone show a build for CWs that is viable in both PVP and PVE?
My hypothesis is that such a build doesn't exist, but hey maybe I can be proved wrong.
My hypothesis is that such a build doesn't exist, but hey maybe I can be proved wrong.
Post edited by pointsman on
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Depends on what you mean by viable.
PvE isn't exactly difficult. If you want to inflict maximum damage, then yes, you need a PvE-spec build. Personally I prefer a sort of hybrid build, anyway. It makes big boss fights and huge pulls a little less hairy when the CW can take a hit, life steal lost HP, and regenerate all throughout :P
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
For PVP, maximize health and defense and regeneration too for some people (Half-ling class for most).
I think they are separate if you really want to min-max your build.
I did, however, quit playing domination because the powers of the CW have been so limited. I'm not sure how the other classes have been limited, but the CW has been emasculated. The CW can only play a minor role in Domination and is made much weaker. I think the other classes have been given significant advantages in Domination.
I'm sorry,but the people who think CW's are weak or useless are playing the wrong class or never gave it a try.Or at least a good one.Though it is understandable CW is not the easiest class to play.You want easy roll a GWF or TR.You want something harder that will push your limits.Roll a CW.
Any armor set in the game can be made to work for PvE, and there are worse choices than the Grim sets. However, for those looking to optimize (read: min/max) for PvE, they aren't an option.
As for CWs in PvP, it's impossible to deny that they suffer a handicap at high levels of play. "Pushing your limits" implies that there's a high skill cap with commensurate reward, but that's unfortunately not true. It's more a case of needing to outplay your competition just to have a chance to break even with them. CWs still make excellent PUG-stompers, but when you go up against similarly skilled and geared players, it becomes obvious that CWs are too easy for most other classes to shut down with their collective kitchen sink of gap closers and CC-immune abilities. They really do need to be looked at in PvP.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I guess for full effectiveness in PvP you'd probably chose a load of Oppressor feats but I haven't actually seen anyone post a pure PvP build for a while. Since Icy Rays and Shard (tabbed) are you bread and butter PvP feats (EF, root with IR, then shard is effective against most single targets), you need to pick the Transcended Master feat, which isn't as efficient as Nightmare Wizardry for PvE. A hybrid build usually ends up as a choice between those two...
Mainly it's about your mental approach. In PvE we're gods, in PvP, we're, um, not. Help your team, get really good at kiting and forget your k/d ratio and you'll win more matches than you lose.
All of the above is true, but the sad thing is that GWFs and GFs are better CC support than CWs, and they have both durability and burst. With few exceptions, prone effects are by far the most impactful on a match, and CWs conspicuously lack prone-inflicting encounters other than Shard, which requires setup and is easily interrupted or glitched out. Other forms of CC don't last long enough unless applied continually (e.g. Smoke Bomb, Oppressive Force, Constricting Shot), and all can be broken by Unstoppable or prevented by Guard, ITC, etc.
I don't want to discourage people from playing their CWs in PvP and having fun, but I think it's important to be brutally honest about how things currently are. Hopefully future tweaks will better validate the CW's role in PvP at the same time that they allow HR, TR, and GF to shine more in PvE.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
CW's are the antithesis of that. We are squishy with high damage and control. The problem is that our controls are too easily broken by Unstoppable and Impossible To Catch so we are nothing but speed bumps to GWF's and TR's. The Devs dug themselves a gigantic hole preventing balance when they gave quick occurring DIETY-MODE skills that do 3 super useful things:
1. Huge resistance that makes dpsing them down 1v1 requiring a daily and much much more,
2. CC immunity for several seconds without needing to accrue any action points.
3. The ability to break CC after CC'd.
Unstoppable also increases attack speed insanely which fuels lifesteal.
TR'S get 3 Dodges which also provide 100% immunity to CC and 100% immunity to damage. Impossible To Catch provides 6 more seconds of CC immunity and insane damage resistance if used while in stealth, allowing the TR to dump massive dmage, recharge his stealth, and gain lots of lifesteal free to heal back any damage taken. Then he gets those 3 total immunity dodges to help refill his stealth bar and go back to being untargettable again. The while stealthed, he can throw very damaging Daggers and/or use Path of Blades to shred anyone near them.
In high gear PvP they all use Perfect Barkshields, huge lifesteal and huge regen to be virtually unkillable in a Perma-stealth build or an Impossible To Catch build. Then they use Perfect Bilethorn to get high weapon damage second hit. While an AoE can pull the out of stealth, they can always use Impossible To Catch or their 3 Dodges to get away and back into stealth while their regen heals any damage. They are like acid rain, deadly to stay in but impossible to kill. They troll nodes for days forcing team to keep multiple people there just to clear the node.
That's the problem in PvP, too any CC escapes and extremely hard to kill characters. Campaign buffs, escalating armor sets that grant HP or boost stealth time and the 3 artifacts with huge stat additions has made capping the basics easy, so everyone is building around the broken skills like Unstoppable or Impossible To Catch to create juggernaut survivability characters. The only option for this as a CW is to do the whole 29k+ HP and build entirely for defense and delect, and use the meatball Shard build.
Survivability is king and it's too easy to get for other classes. The best PvP tools are ones given DIETY-MODE CC immunity powers that do not require accruing action points to use.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
This just is not true. CWs are NOT high damage. We're mass damage. Our single target damage is poor compared to other classes. We only top the DPS charts in dungeons because we have great AoEs and they're full of mobs.
Drscone....what does it take for peeps to realize we are strong in duneons because of aoe damage/control and extremely weak (compared to our rivals) at pvp because of weak single target damage and to be honest weak control?
Then swap your grim set for HV in dungeons and out-dps yourself :P You can wear anything you want and do okay in PvE; the difference is whether you're focused on optimal damage or not. Grim works fine and is quite appropriate for more of a hybrid setup, it's just not the top recommendation for those who are trying to min/max their PvE.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Lol yes please keep the Grim set for PVE so the rest of us oldtimers who wear HV can have a chance to keep up with your uberly grim dps.
Very well written and on point!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Hee hee
I chew up any CW on my Ranger, your real enemy.