How about a Help Series vs. other classes?

chestnut13 · April 2014

I was just in the PVP main forum and there was a thread of how to beat perma TRs. I was thinking how helpful it would be (at least to me!) if we had threads in here such as ...

How to defeat a difficult CW

How to defeat a difficult GWF

You get the picture.

There are some TRs on here that have a great deal of knowledge and experience ... perhaps the whole TR community could benefit from this!

godlysoul2 · April 2014

If you run SS + ITC with a stealth build then the strategy is self explanatory. Not many people are experienced with anything else because nothing else has been as effective in PvP for a while now. That is why these types of things aren't really around or discussed much in this section of the forums. Techniques will also vary greatly based on your setup, build, and powers slotted since rogue has so much more room for customization compared to other classes if you are using something other than SS/ITC, which is another reason you probably don't see much of this.

chestnut13 · April 2014

No offense godly, but cookie cutter thinking of only one way to play never breeds growth. I would imagine there are deflect TRs, combat TRs, etc. that have tricks that they use against difficult opponents. I am thinking more of a tactically based series of threads that people could contribute to base on their individual experiences. Who knows what pearls of wisdom may appear?

dragmosh · April 2014

godlysoul2 wrote: »

If you run SS + ITC with a stealth build then the strategy is self explanatory. Not many people are experienced with anything else because nothing else has been as effective in PvP for a while now. That is why these types of things aren't really around or discussed much in this section of the forums. Techniques will also vary greatly based on your setup, build, and powers slotted since rogue has so much more room for customization compared to other classes if you are using something other than SS/ITC, which is another reason you probably don't see much of this.

So basically slot SS and ITC. Arguably best setup against every class. If you're not clear on the details of how this build works, post a reply and I'll explain in detail.

There's another setup that seems theoretically viable, and that's Rustlord's build. His thread isn't that old, you can probably find it on page 2 or 3. Note that this build isn't common and as such doesn't have much data about its strengths and weaknesses.

chestnut13 · April 2014

My bad. I was not being clear. What I envision is more about tactics and how to exploit weaknesses and tendencies of other classes. I have only one toon and don't play other classes. It's not really about perma as the only viable way to play. It's about the enemy. I played pro poker for a few years and it's never about the cards that I have, it's about what I think the opponent's range of hands is and what I believe he believe's I will do next.

godlysoul2 · April 2014

chestnut13 wrote: »

No offense godly, but cookie cutter thinking of only one way to play never breeds growth. I would imagine there are deflect TRs, combat TRs, etc. that have tricks that they use against difficult opponents. I am thinking more of a tactically based series of threads that people could contribute to base on their individual experiences. Who knows what pearls of wisdom may appear?

There is no offense taken. I didn't design the game. However, if you want what is by far the best in PvP, that is the only way to go at the moment. You can get people with "unique" builds to post their strategies, but ultimately it wont matter unless you are looking for something specific to use outside of the "cookie-cutter" build as a way to nerf yourself. This "cookie-cutter" build didn't used to be considered "cookie-cutter". However, that was back in a time when TRs had more viable DPS options and could be effective without stealth because they had such high DPS. Due to the nerfing that has been happening and things like tenacity to prolong fights, this type of gameplay isn't viable anymore. That is why it is now a "cookie-cutter" build and why now it isn't worth considering other alternatives until major changes happen to the class or PvP again. Either way though TR is a class that is designed specifically around high stealth mechanics and it doesn't make sense to try to play it without utilizing that potential. That potential is where the class gains the significant portion of its advantages, just like GF block, GWF unstoppable, ect.

I've recently been working on a deflect TR and a max STR/DEX DPS based TR for pvp. However, the second is still going to have 5/5 dodge roll stealth gain and 5/5 stealth duration. The deflect TR will still have 2/5 (or more depending) dodge roll gain, and 5/5 stealth duration. Other variations that do not utilize stealth just aren't viable.

I also started out with max DEX full combat rogue and was messing with deflect TR in the beginning with and without stealth. Then I moved into the max CON/regen based build. I also messed around with WK version of deflect TR the same way. I've messed around with executioner and saboteur builds for the DPS based one and tried it with WK on the deflect one utilizing the at-will encounter for AP. I have tried and experienced the other builds. How effective they are is what results in the "cookie-cutter" approach, but it is not the mindset I approach it with. I am fine with trying new things. However, I am not going to use those alternatives if they are significantly out-performed by another option.

My strategic advice would be to respec into stealth and use SS/ITC

stalesmoke · April 2014

Unfortunately its true, there is one viable path, and not because it the only viable path, but because it is the best counter to TR's and works as well as any other TR build against everyone else and doesn't take much ability other than basic cooldown management, which anyone that can count should be able to handle.

Its as easy as grabbing a Bilethorn enchant,, slotting POTB, SS, ITC and Shocking EX and stack some recovery.

everything else is fluff and will only add to your survivability.

Throw some daggers from stealth and watch the bile ticks, try to get a flurry rotation or potb or hit shadow strike as soon as stealth ends to refill your meter and get the stun effect on your foe but be out of stealth ready to go back in at will, hit POTB/itc/flurry whatever order works for you, go back to stealth. throw daggers,> bile ticks ss potb itc df, repeat over and over.

Typically you don't even need to get into range to do dmg with all your DOT dmg. and when you do get in range, be either mid DF immunity or ITC, then dodge roll back to stealth.

ITs the easiest , no skill, no danger, not even in melee range way to play and it effectively counters all other TR builds and works great against any other class, and if they are tanky, you have your shocking to finish them after you get them down to 75% health.

Add in BiS, perfects/r10's and the survivability and dmg output with little to no "real" vulnerability is pathetically OP.

VS other BiS/P/10's it easily competes as the best option for and against any class.

/thread@truthhurts.qqflame.net

GG.

todesfaelle · April 2014

I like the idea. It'd be like a compendium of counter-strategies against popular strategies. Not sure how many players are willing to assist in doing this but if by any chance anyone's interested in the project then I'll do my best to contribute as well if it's countering high stealth TR's. All classes in the game have some sort of Stealth counter which can be further improved. I'll record my CW's method of putting TR's out of Stealth. It's pretty fun.

stalesmoke · April 2014

morenthar wrote: »

That Bilethorn has to be perfect though, so it isn't THAT easy. I've inspected my toughest competitor TR's using the perma/bile build and they are FULLY maxed. Perfects, Rank 10's, Legendary artifacts.

So saying such a build is "easy" is a joke. I smoke those Tier 2 builds. Have to be alpha/perma/bile. It really is a small percentage of the TR community that's making everyone cry nerf.

A scrub will be a scrub,who cares if you can beat them.

Any competent PvP TR has Perfect Bile, I can only play casually now, and at least every other match there is a TR with a P.Bile.

Not like its uncommon nowadays.

So is that the "big" hurdle for it not being "that" easy?

In pugs you don't need to be fully BiS, and if your doing premades, you should be BiS.

So, I don't see the hard part here, I quit my TR because its stupid easy.Only play him to get his profound set.

f2pma · April 2014

trs have no burst.so its better to spec for ss,itc for sustained dmg.
and that is how you counter any class

it would take much more then 1 min for comat tr to burst down sent if he was just standing still spaming untoppable with pots and artifacts.if they were same lvl gear.and lesser geared tr would need 2,3 min just to kill standing gwf.

How about a Help Series vs. other classes?

Comments