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The state of Power on Module 3 and the need for a soft cap
realramaladni
Member Posts: 51
Even at lower values and with proper balance of other stats, Power will be the best offensive and pseudo-defensive stat around.
Even at such high and not impossible to get values, especially for a GF, 1k power is 6% bonus damage and healing. Incredible, at 2k crit I'd only get 3% more crit if I got 1k more crit.
On a sidenote, are you sure you want to let companions be used in Icewind Dale? Because everyone gonna roll Augment, like anywhere on the game
Even at such high and not impossible to get values, especially for a GF, 1k power is 6% bonus damage and healing. Incredible, at 2k crit I'd only get 3% more crit if I got 1k more crit.
On a sidenote, are you sure you want to let companions be used in Icewind Dale? Because everyone gonna roll Augment, like anywhere on the game
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Post edited by realramaladni on
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10k worth of buffs.
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Let me put this straight: You are a supposed support class. OK, it may be possible to create a DPS cleric, don't know. But think about a support cleric. Recovery is easily soft capped. Arpen is useless, as is Lifesteal. Critical strike already scales terribly by your own admission, and the rest is defensive stuff, which is fine, but only to a point. So, if you put a soft cap on power:
Where the hell do you intend to "spend" (so to speak) your points budget?
How about raising the caps for other stats?
Thank you for lecturing me on how my class works, as I was completely clueless about it. The fact remains that Power barely even dimnishes making it too rewarding of a stat. Also, me being a cleric is completely irrelevant, so plz.
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And besides, I never expect to see anything resembling those numbers on my CW.
new power one of the best news on whole update atm power was very underpowerd and making demenishing returns on it would ruin fighters as class totaly
biggest problem in game is hp it was the best stat to stack so u have ppl with 2xmore hp and huge deflect/def but they only lose 200 damge from power to gain it now we might have i choice
I guess the daily is Annointed Army. I wanted to know which powers/feats increase the power stat (tooltips ofter refer to damage, but it might be power - never checked).
Good. So any actual answer to my question? Or in other words: You want a game where high-end stats have almost no actual effect on your power?
The interesting question is what the actual damage or healing on the preview server is compared to the live server when having the same power stat.
At 9k power my cw has 54% bonus damage/healing on preview when you pull up the power window as the OP shows and approximately 18% higher damage numbers on tooltips for powers and dailies. When I add 300 power from a potion my power tooltip increases to 56%.
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Healer's Lore gain 1/2/3/4/5% bonus to it's effect, and your Power stat is increased by 1/2/3/4/5% of your Recovery stat while Healer's Lore is active.
That increase some if u have good recovery
Anyone who's ever taken the time to test things out themselves have known the power of power for a very long time.
At a high GS level we are primarily interested in the percentage increase in damage output from stat investment. Ie how much extra % damage does say 300 extra power give vs crit, arpen etc.
On live build people say power gains are linear, but I have my doubts. Consider the following table. Green is current build stats, blue is mod 3 stats.
I looked at max tooltip damage/healing of a couple of skills at various power levels. I don't have that much power so the high end might be different. I then subtracted the bonus from my WIS score tho it wouldn't really impact the gains.
You can see that on live build, every 1000 power is approximately a 3% increase in DPS output (checked on DC and CW class). If the damage gained from stacking power is truly linear, we expect the percentage increase to diminish as the base damage/power increases. The fact that the bonus remained at ~3% suggests either a small exponential factor was countering diminishing returns, or that the gain in power was relatively small such the diminishing returns are not as noticeable. This stumped me for a long time and I still don't really know how it is the case.
In module 3 power is definitely linear, and the diminishing return on percentage increase in damage is very noticeable. According to the stat modifier (%bonus to damage/healing) every 1000 power gives approximately a 6% bonus. In reality it doesn't seem to quite match up to the skill tooltip bonus but a brighter mind than mine might have figured it how it is so.
Based on skill tooltip damage, Here, 1k power gave ~6% increase in damage from 2-3k power vs ~3.6% from 4.6 to 5.6k power. (Healing word is not so accurate because I had Healer's lore on). Just to make it clear, raising power still grants a fixed amount of damage/healing, that does not diminish. What diminishes is the % increase. I'm not saying it's bad, it's to be expected. Basically at the high end investing in power only yields a smaller and smaller percentage increase in output because base damage is so high. I'll have to check numbers at high end (or someone can post some) to see if it's really too powerful.
That said, realramaladni's stats seemed to have higher gains than expected, so perhaps I don't have the real picture at all. BTW I'm looking at percentage damage increase per 1k power rather than actual skill damage increase %, hopefully it doesn't confuse too much.
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Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
atm on live 1 power gem will give u 300 power or 12 damage while 1 hp will give 1k hp so atm hp is btter to stack then power by 83 times and think this main reason for total domination of hp stackers in pvp they lose very litle damage to gain few times harder char to kill with new power they would at least need to chose betwen 1k hp or 2% more damage
I'll take your stat :
2049 power is 13% increase heal/damage so 113%
5679 power is 34% increase heal damage so 134%
difference is 21% (134-113) so an increase of roughly 20% starting from the 113% base
So we'll expect an increase of 20% between heals at 2049 power and heals at 5679 power
2049 power, healing word for 3700 and sun burst for 1995, so we might expect 4440 for healing word (3700+20%*3700) and 2394 for sunburst (1995+1995*20%)
5679 power you get 4396 for healing word and 2370 for sunburst, given that my 20% increase was approximative, it fall really well within our expectations.
So as it is, power work as the tooltip says and is linear. Maybe we'll have to do more testing to say it's always the case but i think that would be the case.
Power is damage/ healing bonus.
Now, while for damage it's pretty straight forward, my question is about healing:
does the % healing bonus from power affects lifesteal and regeneration healings too? Which heals are "boosted" by power bonus.
So hint,
+1% to your damage relative to your base damage becomes increasingly irrelevant relative to your current damage.
For example, when you think of a raise at work you always think of it as relative to your current salary not your starting salary 10 years ago. For example if someone says you got a 3% raise you don't do the math and conclude in actual fact you got a 1.5% raise because someone was calculating relative to the wage you made 10 years ago, and nowadays you make twice as much. You think, "ehh +3% from what I am making now", but in the context of this game, your "raise" is always calculated as a percentage change from starting value, so you are like I got a 6% raise! From your starting non-raised value...
The point:
In those two screen shots the relative change of damage is 216/212= 1.018. You will discover this magnificent non-diminishing return gain of 4% apparent damage actually only will increase your damage by less than 2% because the percentage gain is relative to your base damage with no power and you have a bunch. The point if you look at someone that made the choice to get 212 versus your 216 and you won't be 4% worth of different on pain giver, you will be closer to 2% different *relative* to each other.
If you keep stacking power you will find it has an increasingly irrelevant effect (meaning you need more of it to change your relative percentage damage by the same amount). +990% damage is not much different than +1000% damage, but it +0 % damage is 10% different than +10% damage.
Most of what are perceived as diminishing returns in defense and recovery are actually this idea flip around. The change in mitigation you need to take 1% less damage relative to where you are at currently is increasingly smaller as you gain mitigation, so many of the clear cut decisive theory craftings people do are not all that accurate. The reason I never made a post about it is there are actual diminishing returns in this game, but some of what people call diminishing returns are not.