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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

CW's need a serious look at

irked01irked01 Banned Users Posts: 91
edited March 2014 in General Discussion (PC)
I am sorry but it is very true. When 90+% of end game content wants 2+ CW's there is a problem with the class or the mechanics of the game. This is having a bad effect on other classes like GF's, TR's and HR's.

Throughout the CTA weekend I with my CW had no problem getting into level 60 13+ k GS groups where we destroyed the place in under 7 minutes. When you have 3 CW's all running Endless Av and Sing and COI things melt really really really fast and THAT is the big issue.

1: Who needs a GF in ANY group when you can bring 2-3 CW's and get through the instance faster and safer then if you had a GF. I have YET to be in any pre-made group with a GF as they simply are NOT NEEDED. In most cases a GWF can do the same job a GF can only better with better survivability and damage output. This coupled with 3 CW's is called EZ-MODE.

2: I ask for a group for T2 DD with ANY class but my CW I have to wait and wait till someone wants any class. yet with my CW I get in groups immediately 90% of the time and never have to wait longer then 15 minutes to get a class with my CW while I can go the ENTIRE DD hour on my HR and GF without getting a group.

3: CW's have taken away from other classes due to their mechanics and or how powerful they are compared to ANY other class. I find it funny how a class that is SUPPOSED to be a control class also has the highest DPS output of any class if geared and played correctly.

4: I am not saying CW's need to be nerfed perhaps the mechanics of end game content needs some serious changes, but as it stands right now they are without any doubt the most wanted class in this game for both PVE and PVP. It is pretty disheartening to know that when I get my TR to 60 I will have a very hard time getting groups for DD and non DD runs simply because it is faster and safer with 2-3 CW's in a group.

I don't know how to fix this problem but it needs to be looked into, as it is really pretty sad that a couple of classes are totally obsolete when it comes to end game content all because of 1 class.
Post edited by irked01 on

Comments

  • ukspawnukspawn Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Pretty much spot on, although opinions will differ with CW and pvp. As for pve, totally true, everyone knows it. You're right about hitting 60 on a TR, you will struggle, even as a glass canon build, won't matter, you may as well spec perma stealth and go solo, alot of TR's do (until the stealth mechanic changes?). People will say, just join a good guild, it's not the point, it's really not.
  • xellizxelliz Member Posts: 955 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?637591-Are-the-CW-s-Next&p=7589581&viewfull=1#post7589581
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  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Wizards are getting looked at ,the developers know the situation with them and have said they plan on dealing with them at some point soon , last paragraph here http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635191-Official-Feedback-Thread-Great-Weapon-Fighter-Changes/page2&p=7552851&viewfull=1#post7552851
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  • helloz2helloz2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 205 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    The devs stated that they "have looked at various reasons as to why they cause problems" in this post regarding the CWs.
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  • irked01irked01 Banned Users Posts: 91
    edited March 2014
    OK thank you everyone for pointing out the link to the post. Perhaps there is some hope yet I just hope that it comes with or BEFORE Mod 3 and not after it.
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    irked01 wrote: »
    OK thank you everyone for pointing out the link to the post. Perhaps there is some hope yet I just hope that it comes with or BEFORE Mod 3 and not after it.

    They aren't getting looked at with module 3 unless the developers add some changes but I think the dev in charge of balance said they aren't being looked at yet in the module 3 patch .
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  • jorifice1jorifice1 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The problem isn't so much with CW's. The problem is with the mechanics of the Boss Encounters coupled with the Threat Mechanics and the overall weakness of the GF Guard ability when faced with multiple, high level opponents. As long as the default Boss encounter is all about Add management, Marks disappear after a single attack on you, and your shield gives way almost instantly, GF's are not always the best choice (although, as some one who plays one regularly I DO maintain that they are a chronically underrated class who can dish out the punishment with the best of them and are more durable by far than most other classes). Buff up the Shield, make Threat actually LAST, and rely on fewer, better designed opponents, and you will see change.
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  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Yeah, when every fight is "Kill the boss plus 300 of his best friends!" then the AOE classes are going to shine. It's not just the class, but the fact that fights don't really require anything more than AOE AOE AOE AOE AOE AOE.....
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  • colonelwingcolonelwing Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    CW's need lower target caps. Seven (7) targets at max. It is still more than the other classes have, but at least not 3 times as much.

  • hfgtfsdfshfgtfsdfs Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Maybe if they stop spamming adds in PvE, CWs would be needed that much.
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  • rittzbitzrittzbitz Member Posts: 116 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    You want to know what happens if CWs get "fixed". More CW focused parties.
  • v1rus89v1rus89 Member Posts: 83
    edited March 2014
    I agree on a target limit of 5/7 or whatever you guys suggest for PVE, but please don't blame it all on one class, you know the problem is in the current dungeons mechanics...right now the formula seems to be: adds, adds, adds and more waves of adds everywhere everytime.
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  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    rittzbitz wrote: »
    You want to know what happens if CWs get "fixed". More CW focused parties.

    In exactly the same way as when they buffed GWF, GWFs were less wanted.....
  • groarkgroark Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    hfgtfsdfs wrote: »
    Maybe if they stop spamming adds in PvE, CWs would be needed that much.

    That.
    Against 1,0000000 mobs you really need a class like CW.
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Well when they nerfed the cw control powers what happened to the average number of cws in a party, oh right
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,467 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It's not just the fact that so many bosses include 10^n adds, it's that no other class can kill them quickly enough to compensate for the loss of a CW. My HR has 43% armor penetration with buffs, all enchantments are rank 9 or 10, and it takes forever to wipe out a single add in a place like Spellplague when you're being swarmed by them (I know, my job is to stay on the boss and hope someone else pulls them off me, but what about when the boss disappears every 20%...) Sometimes your only recourse as a stay-on-boss player is to stay WAY out of the fight and hope that other players can drain the adds so you can get back on the boss again unmolested. If you can't control the adds then your only recourse is to kill or kite them (I have my run speed bonus maxed at 11.5% with 3 dark 10 enchants and Hrimnir's toys and it still isn't enough to kite in many fights).

    So what do you do without a CW? You die. Wonderful.
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  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    helpimblindinrl wrote: »
    Well when they nerfed the cw control powers what happened to the average number of cws in a party, oh right

    And when they boosted the GWF damage sufficiently, pure GWF parties could run every dungeon...
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The GWF *AOE* damage was boosted. And that was due largely to a bugged feat.

    You could buff TR single target damage by 1000% and a TR would still not be preferred in most dungeon parties, because of the nature of the dungeon design itself, consisting of a ton of controllable adds.
  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I think all AOE's attacks should have the same target limit. either 3-5-10 or unlimited. but all of them should have the same.
    Also, the problem is not so much for the CWs themselves but dungeon mechanics, they need to think of different ways to make a dungeon hard than just lots of trash. If they had less but more powerful monsters, other classes would be more useful.
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  • hamletswordshamletswords Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    but as it stands right now they are without any doubt the most wanted class in this game for both PVE and PVP.

    I think you have GWFs confused with CWs. CW is the weakest class in PVP now besides clerics.

    As for PVE, it's the way dungeons are built, not CWs.

    If CWs are nerfed, how are other classes going to suddenly get better at handling the 10+ mobs that you constantly have to fight in every single dungeon?

    The answer is- they're not; they're still going to suck against that many mobs and it's only going to make whatever control a nerfed CW can bring to a party that much more valuable.

    If you need 2 CWs to make things smooth now, after a nerf to say the target caps on AOE, you'll need 4.

    Have fun with that as a non-CW getting a party.

    Demand a change to the fights, not a nerf to CWs.
    My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I said it once and ill say it again...the reason CWs are OP can be summed up as follows:

    1. AOE NEEDED TO KILL ADDS
    2. CONTROL NEEDED TO KILL ADDS
    3. INTEL MAKES US SMARTER
    4. CHARISMA MAKES US BETTER LOOKING
    5. WE TAKE SHOWERS

    Now I patiently wait for moderator to close this idle HAMSTER bantor. (I should get props for quoting Monty Python.)
  • rittzbitzrittzbitz Member Posts: 116 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    mconosrep wrote: »
    In exactly the same way as when they buffed GWF, GWFs were less wanted.....
    What? Are you high? Of course buffing a class made perform better.

    You have to look at why CWs are favored in the meta, and why other classes don't perform well. Hint, it's AoE.

    Nerfing a CWs AoE doesn't some how make the single target abilities of a TR/HR, or the utility of a DC/GF any more desired. If it takes 3 CWs in the future to do what one CW does now, people will take 3 CWs.
  • melodywhrmelodywhr Member Posts: 4,220 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    as it's been stated in the other CW nerf thread we closed today, all classes including the control wizard is getting looked at as far as class balance is concerned. until then, without a constructively led discussion, these threads are nothing but trolling and flaming threads. it is why rule 3.15 exists:
    Rule 3.15 - No Petitions, Ultimatums or Hostile Demands
    . . . . Please keep feedback constructive and within a format for Community Discussion. Disallowed topics include things like, "Please Nerf This Class" and anything without the direction of a constructive Community Discussion.

    this thread is closed.
This discussion has been closed.