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Might as well create a Que system "With Emblem" and "Without Emblem"
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
Before you flame me saying "L2P ****" I have an emblem. Its just a joke at how OP it is. PVP just comes down to who has more emblems at this point in time.
Crush if you see this, Emblem needs a .5 ICD ATLEAST. Might even go so far as to say a 1 sec ICD...
If this isnt fixed, its just a joke to pvp.... seriously
Crush if you see this, Emblem needs a .5 ICD ATLEAST. Might even go so far as to say a 1 sec ICD...
If this isnt fixed, its just a joke to pvp.... seriously
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I dunno man.
Emblem is pretty bad compared to waters except vs. bile trs.
Even vs. bile trs, it is easily countered. They DO have stealth.
EDIT: gg though. I had fun.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
For 15 seconds? That's 2 rotations of encounter powers where the enemy can go full out on you and you have to suffer it without retaliation or fill your enemies HP bar. I tend to use prones and back off, but even then there's a good chance their Healing Depression will wear off and their regen, depressed or not, is ticking the whole time.
Emblems are seriously OP. In a team of otherwise equally skilled and geared players, the one with more Emblems will win.
There's a reason they cost the equivalent of 70 US dollars via the exchange and AH.
Not only is my GF inferior to my GWF just based on the class, the Emblem is such a big difference literally the effectiveness of my GF is easily HALF my GWF because of class+emblem.
Unfortunately my GWF doesnt need any glory since the T2 gear is BIS (+1800 hp over 463 crit... LOL) So I have been farming with my GF lately and REALLY noticing how overpowered emblem really is.
People that dont think so, are just lying to themselves and its the same discussion with tenebrous all over again. I would easily wager emblem is a more imbalance in pvp than tenebrous created...
Other classes also have their ability to disengage.
And like the others have said don't use small damage attacks for 15 sec. You can still use your big hitters.
I agree with OP and have a purple seldarine on my cleric. In PvE or PvP it's a bit of an issue. And seldarine on a cleric just means no one can be killed during 15s. And when I mean no one I also mean the idiot standing still and having 1k def with pve gear, unless he's focused by at least 3 strong enemy players.
Very true, but you do give up typically better personal heals for it.
I'm not going to argue that it is not the most powerful pvp artifact, because it is. I'm just saying that it DOES have a downside.
The real issue with emblems is when 4/5 or 5/5 of a team has it equipped.
EDIT: The 4th scenario you gave, the player would be much better off using waters than emblem.
When you get to a moderately high level of play, people are smarter than your average low-end pug. As soon as that grass pops up, people are usually smart enough to:
A) Stop using At-Wills, and rely on direct-damage abilities dealing more than 400 damage/hit.
C) Line of sight the target, especially if they already hold the node. Yes, the opponent might cap it, but they're no better off than they were before they popped the Emblem.
As a Bilethorn TR, I play the class most effected by an Emblem. If I land a DF, that's ~10 stacks of Bile. Now, obviously if I continue attacking, then they're going to receive a LOT of healing. 1 tick for my DF attack, 1 tick for the initial Bile proc (unconfirmed), and 1 for the DoT Bile tick for a total of ~8,000 or 12,000 (depending on the initial Bile hit proccing the Emblem or not) healing per Duelist's Flurry. The thing is, if I stop attacking after they activate it, they just have those 10 Bile stacks, and heal for 4,000 damage. That's -LESS- than a purple waters. Heck, maybe a blue waters, I'm not sure. Can't get in game to check. Purple waters is something like 7,250 health, so it's almost twice as much healing, with better passive stats than an Emblem.
For other classes except a DC, honestly most of your attacks are going to do more than 400 damage. GWF, GF, CW, HR, and a non-Bile/Plaguefire TR will ALL do more than 400/hit. You're still outdamaging it. Add to that your encounters dealing a few thousand damage/use and you're still out-bursting the damage, and they're not receiving quite as 'bursty' of healing as they would have from a Waters activation. As Kune said, the biggest issue is when almost the whole opposing side is running Emblems. Even then, however, I have seen a lot of grossly exaggerated and faulty math.
For example: Suppose the opposing team has 5 Legendary Emblems (rare). That's a 2 minute cooldown on each, each lasts 15 seconds. 15s x 5 uses = 1 min, 15 seconds total uptime, which is greater than 50%. The problem is, if this ever happens, you're still going to win the match, because they opposing side is zerging together, and you can hold 2 nodes to their one. Yes, 2 on a node makes it difficult, but if you're fighting 2 people alone, you're likely to die anyways, and if you're 2 vs 2, then you should be coordinating your heavier damage abilities to deal with the Emblems. Generally you're facing a maximum of 2 Emblems on a node, so that's roughly 25% uptime. Leaves you 1.5 minutes to kill a player... with the current system, that's very doable.
Yes, Emblem is the only healing artifact in the game that scales with the number of opponents you're fighting, but at the same time, as the number of enemies you fight grows, so does their burst potential, and the likeliness of the Emblem wielder getting killed in the duration of 1 crowd control. The biggest problem people have with the Emblem is just not knowing -what- they should do against it (Note, I'm not insulting nor accusing anyone here), and as such ruining it for those on their team who do, by constantly throwing At-Wills dealing less than 400 damage/hit, keeping the Emblem wielder's health going in the wrong direction.
It really makes the game P2W
A 5/5 emblem team vs a 0/5 emblem team would be a wreck. Assuming they are not too far off in terms of skill/gear.
I have been part of a team of 5 organized, experienced, and well geared players (rank 8-10 and perfect enchants), who repeatedly won matches against premades, but had no emblems, and went up against a premade with 4 of them. We lost 1000-0. We are by no means the best PvP team ever, but seeing as how we had won every match prefacing that one - against other similarly experienced and geared premades as well - the only conclusion I can draw from that outcome I think everyone else can see as well.
Having an Emblem entirely replaces the necessity for a cleric. ANY player with one can drop by the contested node and turn the tide of battle in his allies favor, then off to contest another node, with little to no way of countering it.
You think this is a problem now, wait til Mod 3 when everyone on the battlefield is running around with Soulforged, Phoera, Mystic Phoera, Rust Monster and Psuedodragon.
I cannot count the times when I played against these 4-5 men emblem teams and it was enough that I put my shard on the ground and pop went the emblem "OMG CW at 2 pop it pop it fast". Even now when I think already makes me laugh a bit.
But again, it's fine by me. People paid soooo much for this.
I wish there was an option against stacking it just as I wish there was an option for not stacking 2-3-4 GWFs (although I do love it then when they start losing they give up capping just to follow me around for free kills...) or even other classes.
Many times it's not a single of these OP items/classes that make the game complete **** for the others, it's their stacking.
LOL my mind is blown now don't even wanna imagine the scene....
You have to know there are many emblem users out there are P2W who run into PVP with their BIS but got no clue how to play. When both team are evenly matched, the team has more emblem basically auto wins. especially in the new patch burst dmg has been reduced, so does the effectiveness of chain cc.
The players we fought were in no way bad. I'm also not saying that Emblem doesn't make a difference, it does. But it's also not as out of control as most people seem to have ingrained in their minds. There are ways to counter it, and many situations in which it's actually worse than a Waters, which costs far, far less.
Well it depends how good you guys are. These not so bad player in others eyes could be actually bad player, so there is not really a way to tell such. If you wanna think of Emblem for not being OP it is fine, but there is a reason why it is so expensive right now(as a matter of fact it has never been cheap, always pricy since day 1), and yet everyone is still eager to buy them.
Supply/Demand actually proves a lot of things. Just like when everybody rolled a GWF in Mod 2, and yet there were so many people claim that GWF is not OP that just makes me LOL.