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Forums > Home› PvE Discussion

PVP gear swap cheating: Tired of it!

dyesleedyeslee Member Posts: 307 Arc User
edited March 2014 in PvE Discussion
Before any of you comment on this.. Yeah I'm gonna be an OP about this and I don't care what you have to say in response because you all know it's happening..

The Following IS NOT being post to help you to cheat in PVP, nor am I posting this to help further Cheating in PVP domination.
I am only basing the facts on the facts why the new ranked PVP match system is not being played fairly because of greedy unfair players who cheat just to get ahead.

I've been PVPing in many different MMO's and I see a lot of the same and/or similar problems every time when a Ranking system comes into play.

For those who don't know, here is whats happening and why your getting your butts kicked in the PVP domination matches.

Players buy or have a set of low GS scored gear and their High GS scored PVP Gear in their inventory, they equip the crappy GS score gear, go into a supposed "Equally matched" PVP match against low GS'd players, then switch out their gear immediately to the higher GS PVP gear to give them a HUGE unfair advantage.. just so they can CHEAT to get an easy win and move up the new Rank system or to earn easy glory

This needs to be fixed and soon.. I dont care how nor what actions need to be taken to resolve this problem, Just fix it perfectworld / Arc / Dev's.. whoever! just fix it.. if your not sure how??? Here's an idea..

At the point of entry into the PVP arena, Place a gear lock on the players so that their gear cannot be removed or switched for any reason. This will keep those who are doing what i have stated above from cheating and beating the HAMSTER out of lower GS players new to Neverwinter and their PVP

Arena's. for those who don't like this Idea, well i don't care. It is happening, it is Cheating, and it is completely unfair to those who want to enjoy it but cant because of selfish players who are greedy, unfair, and many vulgar words that i could say but it get me banned and or suspended.

I used to enjoy the PVP domination matches.. people weren't so driven to cheat just to get the glory points. Now it's more of a unwanted task just to complete my dailies to earn AD.

yeah go ahead and say it.. then don't PVP. Well I will continue to PVP, even though these cheaters continue to enter unfairly and finding a way to loophole the match system for their own benefit.
5790248SLdyC.png
Post edited by dyeslee on

Comments

  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Matchmaking is not considering gear/GS at all, it's ELO-based...
  • kleejikleeji Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Nope, my guildmates and I have all have 15-17k gs, never swap anything before or after queue and we still get matched up with or against low gs baddies a lot, I'm afraid your gear has nothing to do with pvp queue.

    Edit: aslo ELO d oesnt seem to be working because we lost probably 5 matches tops out of about 100 we did post pvp patch and still meet noobs a lot. That's probably because there is simply no other team with equal elo queueing at the same time.
  • zaodonnzaodonn Member Posts: 109
    edited March 2014
    It is not gear based at all. Its Elo rank based. And Elo is 100% broken.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?629291-Elo-system-is-malfunctioning
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Reading today's patch notes it looks like the dialled ELO all the way down at the weekend to 'fix' the queue time issues, resulting in more mismatches. The latest patch is supposedly balancing matchmaking effect vs queue times so you may see a change in both.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
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  • dyesleedyeslee Member Posts: 307 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    well if this is case then Neverwinter needs to come up with a better system to equally balance the PVP arena match's its to the point that PVP is not enjoyable and fun anymore.
    I do apologize for going OP on this subject..
    5790248SLdyC.png
  • cerebralpyrecerebralpyre Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    twilightwatchman wrote: »
    Reading today's patch notes it looks like the dialled ELO all the way down at the weekend to 'fix' the queue time issues, resulting in more mismatches. The latest patch is supposedly balancing matchmaking effect vs queue times so you may see a change in both.

    For those that haven't read the notes for today's patch

    Adjusted Domination PvP queues to throttle matchmaking queuing speeds based on population and current average queue wait times to get the best of matchmaking and reasonable queue times.
    Cerebralpyre 13.2k SW
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    Ginko - 10.3k DC

    Puzzl Bochs - lvl38 CW
  • benskix2benskix2 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 674 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    That's a long post about a "cheat" that would accomplish absolutely nothing....
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    dyeslee wrote: »
    [long, well-intentioned post]

    I don't know why people keep assuming that GS has anything to do with matchmaking, because it doesn't. As others have said, Elo is a win/loss ranking system, and the devs temporarily relaxed the requirements to allow queues to move.
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  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    vorphied wrote: »
    I don't know why people keep assuming that GS has anything to do with matchmaking, because it doesn't. As others have said, Elo is a win/loss ranking system, and the devs temporarily relaxed the requirements to allow queues to move.

    Out of curiosity, has the Devs actually said exactly what they base the matchmaking on?
  • iliveforpvpiliveforpvp Member Posts: 268 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    mconosrep wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, has the Devs actually said exactly what they base the matchmaking on?

    My understanding is that it is based on wins and losses. Gain points for wins, lose point for losses. If you beat someone with a rating a lot lower than yours, you only gain a small amount. Opposite with losing.

    BUT it's been a while and I could be dead wrong xD
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    iliveforpvp wrote: »
    My understanding is that it is based on wins and losses. Gain points for wins, lose point for losses. If you beat someone with a rating a lot lower than yours, you only gain a small amount. Opposite with losing.

    BUT it's been a while and I could be dead wrong xD

    Yes, same here. But what I am wondering was if the Devs explicitly stated that this was ALL they based their matchmaking on. You can see where this leading....
  • chudovishyechudovishye Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Why is this discussion even happening? First off, I hate gear swapping to cause another enchant to proc, but hate it or not, it's not an illegal move or exploiting until they make it impossible to do. Also, DID YOU READ THE PATCH NOTES? Here you go, I SAID THIS FOR DAYS:

    Adjusted Domination PvP queues to throttle matchmaking queuing speeds based on population and current average queue wait times to get the best of matchmaking and reasonable queue times.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    iliveforpvp wrote: »
    My understanding is that it is based on wins and losses. Gain points for wins, lose point for losses. If you beat someone with a rating a lot lower than yours, you only gain a small amount. Opposite with losing.

    BUT it's been a while and I could be dead wrong xD

    They've stated before that their matchmaking is an Elo system, so I believe that is correct. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to make GS part of the equation since the number is easy to manipulate and is not wholly representative of a player's odds of winning. As we know, GS standards vary based on the class, so I can see why they chose to use Elo and not GS as the matchmaking standard.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    vorphied wrote: »
    They've stated before that their matchmaking is an Elo system, so I believe that is correct. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to make GS part of the equation since the number is easy to manipulate and is not wholly representative of a player's odds of winning. As we know, GS standards vary based on the class, so I can see why they chose to use Elo and not GS as the matchmaking standard.

    It does make sense that adjustments to your ELO come purely from your win/loss stats. But it would be a nifty idea if your initial ELO starting value depended on your relative GS to that of other players of the same level. (Obviously this would only work so long as this was not known by players).
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    mconosrep wrote: »
    Yes, same here. But what I am wondering was if the Devs explicitly stated that this was ALL they based their matchmaking on. You can see where this leading....

    I don't think the devs need to go in exact detail every single thing about the ELO system or else people will have more information on how to cheat it
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    rashylewizz wrote: »
    I don't think the devs need to go in exact detail every single thing about the ELO system or else people will have more information on how to cheat it

    Yep, that's what started me wondering....
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mconosrep wrote: »
    It does make sense that adjustments to your ELO come purely from your win/loss stats. But it would be a nifty idea if your initial ELO starting value depended on your relative GS to that of other players of the same level. (Obviously this would only work so long as this was not known by players).

    Even that would be complicated and highly inaccurate. GS is far too unreliable for this purpose since it factors in most stats (including HP), stats gained from companion bonuses (up until you actually spawn in the match), and stats inflated by certain class feats. Not to mention that some players run around with artificially high GS due to using mixed sets, while others purposely use lower-rated items for a very specific stat allocation.

    GS matching could work for PvP scaling for low levels, but by the time you get close to 60, the variance starts to be a problem.
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    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • doggy009doggy009 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Question, how is ELO system better than GS based system?

    In ELO system premades can beat the HAMSTER out of 100 PUGs and still go against another PUGs but in GS based system can and should have teams of something like this ( total GS -or+ 3k ) vs another team of the same (total GS - or+ 3k ) im sure all matches will be matched or at least close instead of ppl of 16k vs ppl 11k because somehow they both have high ELO score
    Killy2
    SENT IV GWF - PVP
  • izatarizatar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    doggy009 wrote: »
    Question, how is ELO system better than GS based system?

    In ELO system premades can beat the HAMSTER out of 100 PUGs and still go against another PUGs but in GS based system can and should have teams of something like this ( total GS -or+ 3k ) vs another team of the same (total GS - or+ 3k ) im sure all matches will be matched or at least close instead of ppl of 16k vs ppl 11k because somehow they both have high ELO score

    You overrate gearscore. First, player skill and feat layout outpaces gear. Next, and importantly, gearscore does not accurately reflect the power of a toon. Some enchants don't affect gear score, and yet make the toon way powerful, for example the tenembrous.

    Anyway, the only true measure of relative ranking is wins and losses. An undergeared team can *easily* defeat a fully geared team if that team doesn't understand the game mechanics.
  • doggy009doggy009 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    izatar wrote: »
    You overrate gearscore. First, player skill and feat layout outpaces gear. Next, and importantly, gearscore does not accurately reflect the power of a toon. Some enchants don't affect gear score, and yet make the toon way powerful, for example the tenembrous.

    Anyway, the only true measure of relative ranking is wins and losses. An undergeared team can *easily* defeat a fully geared team if that team doesn't understand the game mechanics.

    I doubt that an undergeared team could beat a geared one. For once they will be getting 2-3 KO hits left and right.also a geared TR/GWF/HR could easily troll some undergeared people

    Yes gear score is not everything but its better than ELO. Not everyone play in op premade that loses 5 matches top in 100 matches. Some people only PUG
    Killy2
    SENT IV GWF - PVP
  • yogokouyogokou Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    A premade that wins all the time will not face undergeared pugs under the elo system,it is designed to always give you a 50/50 win chance in every pairing. This is happening between elo ranking hasn't fully kicked in yet, and due to unavailability of proper opponent at that time. Also the premade will be gaining minimal, if any, elo ranking from those matches, and the opponent will similarly lose close to nothing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    doggy009 wrote: »
    I doubt that an undergeared team could beat a geared one. For once they will be getting 2-3 KO hits left and right.also a geared TR/GWF/HR could easily troll some undergeared people

    Yes gear score is not everything but its better than ELO. Not everyone play in op premade that loses 5 matches top in 100 matches. Some people only PUG

    People need to hold the bulk of their criticism for the first month or so of this matchmaking system. Elo matchmaking doesn't guarantee perfect matches, but it's unreasonable to expect amazing results within a week of being implemented, especially considering that they had to relax the matchmaking criteria just to allow players to play enough matches to be rated and get the whole thing rolling.

    A GS-restricted system would be in no way better and would be prone to being exploited. Sometime last year the idea of a separate queue for 9k and lower characters sounded like a pretty decent idea, but as power creep steadily progresses, 11k has become the new 9k. We'd have to have at least three GS-restricted queues at lvl 60, thereby increasing queue delays and allowing a lot of players to slip through the cracks into queues too low or too high for them because their gear and feat selections artificially deflate or inflate their GS.
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    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

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