PvP powers for CW

chemboy613 · March 2014

I had a chat with Persephone before the patch - and he informed me that PvP is all about prones - which makes perfect sense to me,

However, post-patch entangle and shard prone duration are much shorter now. Is this still the way to go, or has tenacity control resist nerfed it so much much that maybe fullnuke is better - or what about shard on tab but no entangle? Just when i tried against a PvP-geared player today, entangle did next to nothing.

Still a PvE player at heart, but i have to catch em all (the sets), and PvP to let off steam

pers3phone · March 2014

The shard combos still work - sometimes, it is however definitely harder to hit, and it wasn't easy before either. I tried full CoI/RoEx2 debuff/nuke+repel as well, also working. When I say working, means it's bad, but playable - if you feel like doing the debuffer role is good enough for you.

Problem with no entangle for Mastery shard is that you need to stuck the player in place, or they might go unstoppable/block/ITC/teleport/dodge the 1st prone and dance around your shard pushes. Icy Rays is good to stuck someone in place - but not enough. A CW can still repel you, TR can still go ITC, GWF unstoppable etc. from Icy Rays root. So ideally you need people unable to answer your combo, this is why the EF is important, while in choke you can't repel/Chill Strike/EF the other guy, and if you do it right (EF after unstoppable fades), GWF should not ba able to pop it again, so they would be helpless and so on.

But for now, the lack of CC makes the situation extremely depressing, especially when combined to a significant loss in survivability because of healing depression affecting the raven artifact, soulforged and regen, which used to be integral part of our kiting/escape mechanics.

chemboy613 · March 2014

Yeah, I did a Pvp match where we won, i played my best, and i was something like 5-13, and we won big for sure.

I like TR for PvP, but i like to smash face, not PS and bilethron, and I heard that is nerfed like crazy too.

My impression is that GWF is OP still, why teams don't run 5GWF for PvP all the time, i don't know.

bullgodz · March 2014

I'm one of the mages that went mixed Thaum and mostly renegade for the crits/damage output from day 1 and I did top the boards up until lvl 60 and from there I would top the boards about 20% of the time, I was gunning for the pvp titles. I do realize that after a few weeks and especially with my crit based build I'm not helping out my team (which wasn't that viable pre- lvl 60 matches considering that someone left about 80% of the time) and now that tenacity is live my build is useless. Truth be told I was waiting until after Module 3 to hear what pvp builds are NOW viable.
Anyone have some suggestions on which paragon path or mixed paths I should respec to?

pointsman · March 2014

bullgodz wrote: »

Anyone have some suggestions on which paragon path or mixed paths I should respec to?

Iron Vanguard Sentinel

eton3000 · March 2014

pointsman wrote: »

Iron Vanguard Sentinel

+1

make sure its also halfling

benskix2 · March 2014

I like chill strike on tab, unless I'm fighting a GWF a freeze seems as good as a prone. If GWFs start chasing me I put repel on tab and just backpedal and pray for my life. I'm oppressor and I usually go RoE, entangle, CS, hold ray of frost till they freeze and then repel them and start over when fighting a single target, against multiple targets I try and entangle the DC and repel them off the point then use RoE on the weakest target in the bunch and try and cast CS at the middle of the group and hit them all then cycle through guys with RoF to get as many slowed or immobilized as I can.

jayrad8 · March 2014

In another post someone was talking about a high recovery build (5-6k) in order to spam encounters. Has anyone tried something like this?

With the Archmage set (-1sec off cd for powers on cd each time a control is used), and tab icy rays, entangle, chill strike, and repel with high recovery, I'm wondering how spam-able the rotation might be. You'd get 3 secs off your icy cd assuming you get the other encounters off, 2 secs off chill strike, 1 off entangle, and repel cd is already very short -- would also generate ap like crazy. Could be interesting..

vorphied · March 2014

jayrad8 wrote: »

In another post someone was talking about a high recovery build (5-6k) in order to spam encounters. Has anyone tried something like this?

With the Archmage set (-1sec off cd for powers on cd each time a control is used), and tab icy rays, entangle, chill strike, and repel with high recovery, I'm wondering how spam-able the rotation might be. You'd get 3 secs off your icy cd assuming you get the other encounters off, 2 secs off chill strike, 1 off entangle, and repel cd is already very short -- would also generate ap like crazy. Could be interesting..

Recovery that high would pretty much destroy your build. The diminishing returns on Recovery make it so that you would be allocating 2-3k stat points for virtually no appreciable benefit.

Archmage set is really nice for T1 sets, but you'd suffer significantly more damage in PvP and have your burst potential lowered even further (if you're going to rock a non-PvP set, at least HV increases your damage). I like the theorycraft behind this whole idea, but I don't see it working out

diogene0 · March 2014

My average pvp performance, my favourite spell bar. Class features are wrong though. Thaum MoF, Thaumaturge pvp gear. Sometimes i die more (especially when the team is really bad), sometimes less, so 2:1 is my average kill:death ratio. Using first CoI, then ray and finally the big fire dot. When you use that people start panicking, running away, and then the mighty shard of death comes from the sky.

Edit: adding a good match just to show this isn't an accident.

xtraordinary91 · March 2014

The one game I managed to get into last night was interesting. Tried a few different things, but settled back down for the old school Mindflayer burst rotation: Icy Rays on Tab, RoE, EF and Chill Strike. For pug matches, this is still very bursty. And if you play the field smart you should do fine.

chemboy613 · March 2014

well, there's no question it will work on PuG matches, especially when you outgear the other team, but what about serious PvP matches?

I heard ashema is doing well on his PvP CW, but c'mon, it's a Ashema

It seems like most of us are screwed here

pers3phone · March 2014

chemboy613 wrote: »

well, there's no question it will work on PuG matches, especially when you outgear the other team, but what about serious PvP matches?

I heard ashema is doing well on his PvP CW, but c'mon, it's a Ashema It seems like most of us are screwed here

You can do AMAZING on your PvP CW if:

- you get carried
- you have people able to prone for you
- you have people defending you and CCing your attacker
- you have 2-3 very good GWF/GFs
- you don't have any liabilities in the team
- you have good point holders so you don't have to step on points often and can fight off it most time
- you have amazing DC throwing you heals
- you have ubergeared PvP specced team, preferably R10s, all in voicechat communicating

And so on.

You won't do fine as soon as you're in 1 vs 1 situations against similarly experienced/geared classes such as GF/GWF/TR/HR and who knows - maybe even DC if they know what to do lol.

So basically CW is a pretty dumb class by now, was weak (but decent still), and now is even weaker.

Also there's a myth around the forums about a certain CW spec that can has a one-shot rotation and so on. I can assure you it's just a myth, not from guessing, but from running ACT on the people that were supposed to sport this spec. They have nothing special builds with lots of HP and same spells as before.

You like to play full support and run around scared each time you have the misfortune to end up against melees or HR, by all means, play CW.

Or you can ask some top guild if they have a place for you and get carried

pointsman · March 2014

Eh, CW PVP is dumb now anyways.

Just throw in any random set of powers into your power bar and just ride back and forth between points 1 and 3.

You'll actually be doing something helpful for the team by contesting nodes, and you'll get some lulz out of it when you start using unexpected powers on your enemies. I mean, maybe Maelstrom works really well in PVP. Who knows? Let's find out! Or, how about Steal Time Mastery FTW!

ripyourlipsoff · March 2014

Wow, 3 out of the top 4 players are CW what a coincidence.

diogene0 wrote: »

My average pvp performance, my favourite spell bar. Class features are wrong though. Thaum MoF, Thaumaturge pvp gear. Sometimes i die more (especially when the team is really bad), sometimes less, so 2:1 is my average kill:death ratio. Using first CoI, then ray and finally the big fire dot. When you use that people start panicking, running away, and then the mighty shard of death comes from the sky.

Edit: adding a good match just to show this isn't an accident.

chemboy613 · March 2014

Well, dio is playing (probably) in a pug match, knowing him.

Persephone does some high end PvP, so the experience is different up there, so I think we have to understand that.

But I feel the same way too, CW is not great in PvP right now.

The people i mentioned are perfects/tens/legendaries. My main is perfects/9s/legendaries, but PvE spec and gear. You're welcome to see us do CN in the general thread.

pers3phone · March 2014

ripyourlipsoff wrote: »

Wow, 3 out of the top 4 players are CW what a coincidence.

You need to learn one thing:

PUG PvP means NOTHING. Nada. Nothing at all. Is meaningless.

The only thing that matters are premade vs premade where you are matched vs experienced, pro players.

NOBODY. NOOOOBODY cares if you score a billion kills vs ungeared pugs. Nobody.

All that matters is how you perform in premade.

chemboy613 wrote: »

Persephone does some high end PvP, so the experience is different up there, so I think we have to understand that.

I'm not at the highest level by any means. I have a tiefling, not optimal. I have r9s, not optimal. I didn't bother upgrading artifacts to legendary and how smart I was. Also glad I didn't upgrade my SF to perfect.

Any experienced team would wipe the floor with my CW in 2-3 secs. All that it takes is a good GWF/TR/GF/HR on me all the time and I'm running around seeking help without being able to contribute.

(Sure, put me in one of these OP teams and I will go on a rampage... yeah... so very awesome being carried)

And I'm so disgusted by this game by now. Not gonna bother farming anything from now on. Didn't touch CN in weeks.

Because, what for?

P2W guys get their stuff 1st day. P2W guys can buy gear, experiment all the time.

By the time I farm my gear for new specs, Cryptic changes the meta so I'm in a losing spot again.

Dumb.

hmdq · March 2014

pers3phone wrote: »

You need to learn one thing:

PUG PvP means NOTHING. Nada. Nothing at all. Is meaningless.

The only thing that matters are premade vs premade where you are matched vs experienced, pro players.

NOBODY. NOOOOBODY cares if you score a billion kills vs ungeared pugs. Nobody.

All that matters is how you perform in premade.

I'm not at the highest level by any means. I have a tiefling, not optimal. I have r9s, not optimal. I didn't bother upgrading artifacts to legendary and how smart I was. Also glad I didn't upgrade my SF to perfect.

Any experienced team would wipe the floor with my CW in 2-3 secs. All that it takes is a good GWF/TR/GF/HR on me all the time and I'm running around seeking help without being able to contribute.

(Sure, put me in one of these OP teams and I will go on a rampage... yeah... so very awesome being carried)

And I'm so disgusted by this game by now. Not gonna bother farming anything from now on. Didn't touch CN in weeks.

Because, what for?

P2W guys get their stuff 1st day. P2W guys can buy gear, experiment all the time.

By the time I farm my gear for new specs, Cryptic changes the meta so I'm in a losing spot again.

Dumb.

totally agree, because the difference of who puts money in the game and who is not put TOO HIGH! I agree that the game is not P2W, but is rather "PAY TO SAVE TIME" and one example is watching a char with 10 x R8 = 1760 to more than stats now 10 x R10 = 3000 not counting artifacts! this game will only be viable if this difference diminish! but remember one thing for those who love to wear with EVERYTHING is impossible to buy FINGER. DEVS is a hint or players will lose more than they already are losing!

masterjewstar · March 2014

pvp was never really that fun to begin with imo sure its fun to run over people but its a huge waste of time if you are unable to do that or run into a team that does that on the regular and then run into them again and again. Honestly there is no fun in it for me so i dont even bother as long as my 12k has to fight 18k theres no reason to even be there.

at that point theres nothing even skill can do to save you and thats my problem with it.

like persephone said if not premade theres really nothing to be done because the premades all work together where as a pug will likely just do whatever and the pug will likely also be destroyed.

wouldnt be so if there was a separation but what do i know?

i probably wont even touch the new module for the pvp side nothing like walking along do do do *spots a pretty flower.... then smash someone bashes you to the ground and another blows you up.

and honestly pvp while leveling during beta and mod 1 was fun but now mulrond put a stop to that **** real quick.

trippysmurf1 · March 2014

hquadros wrote: »

totally agree, because the difference of who puts money in the game and who is not put TOO HIGH! I agree that the game is not P2W, but is rather "PAY TO SAVE TIME" and one example is watching a char with 10 x R8 = 1760 to more than stats now 10 x R10 = 3000 not counting artifacts! this game will only be viable if this difference diminish! but remember one thing for those who love to wear with EVERYTHING is impossible to buy FINGER. DEVS is a hint or players will lose more than they already are losing!

Bad math is bad. Last I checked R8s were 220 stat points each.

silverquick · March 2014

hquadros wrote: »

totally agree, because the difference of who puts money in the game and who is not put TOO HIGH! I agree that the game is not P2W, but is rather "PAY TO SAVE TIME" and one example is watching a char with 10 x R8 = 1760 to more than stats now 10 x R10 = 3000 not counting artifacts! this game will only be viable if this difference diminish! but remember one thing for those who love to wear with EVERYTHING is impossible to buy FINGER. DEVS is a hint or players will lose more than they already are losing!

Look,

I pay into the game too, but I am not willing to pay some $2000 on one character so I can be uber in PvP. That's just nuts, and there really are people who do that. And now with these current nerfs I'm even less likely to put money into my character for any kind of PvP at all.

Heck I paid for a medium warhorse because I got tired of anhililating an entire zone after doing quests in Sharandar because some puny group of munchkins decided to unhorse me on my way back, landing me in the middle of two other encounter patches of mobs. swarming me with mobs. I was like... grrrr... *nuke* *stomp* *waste* *dismember* *crush*... there are you F'n satisfied I anhililated half the zone again? Are you happy now?

So now I don't have to worry about it.

Another one I bought was a Ioun Stone of Allure because the groups I was running with didn't like Companions because they agro everything. And I liked companions. So I had to stow my companions everytime we'd group. So I gave in and bought a Ioun Stone, which I admit paid off in spades. Plus bought some other companions I just thought were plain cool. And I've bought keys to play the lotto chests.

But no... I'm not spending $2000 on a PvP character that likely is nerfed to hell anyway because someone decided they were going to "balance" a game based on PvE grouping to make it PvP optional, and hose it up.

diogene0 · March 2014

pers3phone wrote: »

All that matters is how you perform in premade.

Well not for the devs of this game. If there were a realistic way to get an answer, i'd bet 10M ADs on that. The devs do cares about pugs, since it's 95% (at the very least) of the matches being played. If they can please premades at the same time they'll do it but you will never see them making the pug's life a hell on earth to satisfy the ego of the premade players.

pers3phone · March 2014

diogene0 wrote: »

Well not for the devs of this game. If there were a realistic way to get an answer, i'd bet 10M ADs on that. The devs do cares about pugs, since it's 95% (at the very least) of the matches being played. If they can please premades at the same time they'll do it but you will never see them making the pug's life a hell on earth to satisfy the ego of the premade players.

Nobody wants to make life hell for pug players. I pug every day a lot, and many people on the forums here met me while fully alone. Also there's no reason to make life difficult for pugs, wouldn't improve anything for premades.

However, my statement remains: I could go kill 15-20-30 and even 40 people in a pug and those near me might think I'm some god-CW. But if I premade (as in, serious, organized match) and can't make myself useful against players on my level, then I'm pretty much a bad CW.

I think that's about it.

ripyourlipsoff · March 2014

Premades should fight premades, when you have premade elite geared players pounding on new 60s trying to gear they just become turned off and stop queing.

PvP powers for CW

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