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HR's Constricting Arrow unbalanced
meldan3n
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
The HR's Encounter "Constricting Arrow" is any CW's death without any way to dodge it. Which would be fine if it was a daily that required full AP. TR's Shocking Execution can't be dodged either, but it's a daily, so it is fair at some point.
The problem: if you dodge the initial hit, you still get "grabbed" two more times. Those grabs cancel any spell and send it to full cooldown. If timed right, with 3 dodges, this ability can be dodged. Problem is, the HR can cast other CC abilities, if timed correctly, between the grabs, to prevent the CW from dodging in the right moment (or FORCE them to dodge other attacks, so they don't have enough dodges left), which basically leads to perma CC and inability to cast any encounter.
My suggestion: if you take the first hit to the face, you get grabbed 3 times as intended. If you dodge the first hit, you don't get grabbed two more times. This would definitely balance it out a little. As for now, it is possible for experienced, Recovery-focused HRs to CC CWs 100 % of the time. If the CW is tanky and the HR cannot kill him, typing "/killme" is the only way out.
The problem: if you dodge the initial hit, you still get "grabbed" two more times. Those grabs cancel any spell and send it to full cooldown. If timed right, with 3 dodges, this ability can be dodged. Problem is, the HR can cast other CC abilities, if timed correctly, between the grabs, to prevent the CW from dodging in the right moment (or FORCE them to dodge other attacks, so they don't have enough dodges left), which basically leads to perma CC and inability to cast any encounter.
My suggestion: if you take the first hit to the face, you get grabbed 3 times as intended. If you dodge the first hit, you don't get grabbed two more times. This would definitely balance it out a little. As for now, it is possible for experienced, Recovery-focused HRs to CC CWs 100 % of the time. If the CW is tanky and the HR cannot kill him, typing "/killme" is the only way out.
Post edited by meldan3n on
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This was already debated about, but thank god at least you seem reasonable about it, as opposed to crying about it. I agree to what youre suggesting. Even though Constricting Arrow is the only non daily way to deal with cws, if its dodgeable, then it balances out a bit.
It has almost nothing to do with recovery.
Be careful man, ive said pretty much the same as you just did in a different forum about Constricting Arrow. Theres a couple people who will throw a fit about "defending an OP ability just cause you use it".
Name one. "Perma CC" is not "CC chain". "Perma CC" means the build is created to actually hold you in place for minutes without killing you.
If people like you keep posting here, it probably will. Watch your tone and restrain from posting if you can't state a constructive argument. From what I've understood so far, your argument is "It works against mages, deal with it!". This is not what I'm asking for in this thread. If you wish to discuss the effectiveness of a skill against certain classes, please be more specific.
My suggestion is: if you dodge the first hit, you shouldn't be grabbed 2 more times. If you think it's a bad idea that would mess up the balance with certain classes, feel free to discuss it.
I don't know if tenacity is going to affect constricting arrow, but if it does then nothing needs to be done about it.
Any kind of; "No, there's no way to avoid that" in PvP, is by definition OverPowering -- as in "Nothing within your power can make you avoid the results the enemy intended on you" = "you've been OverPowered"
How the !(#@*&! does anyone say being rooted or strangled when you've never been hit, is "balanced" ?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Definitely. But the problem I have is the low cooldown. Once the CC chain is finished, the HR starts his rotation all over again. The CW's Icy Rays has a very long cooldown, which is actually the reason why I don't prefer using it. The casting time is also long and easy to predict due to the "marker", it doesn't stun or interrupt the target. CA, on the other hand, is unpredictable and affects you for over 7 seconds (Icy Rays only holds you in place for 2 seconds while the target can cast and keep casting anything he wants).
It is a nice encounter, but the fact that the HR can put other CC right between the CA grabs (and then immediately go again), makes it OP, from my point of view. Which is ok. A CW can CC someone, too, until he's dead (especially with the Meatball rotation), but CW's encounters are dodgeable/avoidable; pull any CC on the CW the moment you hear Icy Rays (CWs can't dodge while Icy Rays is casted). In case of HRs, they just need to decide "Ok, I'm gonna perma CC this CW", and there is nothing a CW can do about it.
Rank 3 Constricting Arrow lasts up to 7 seconds. 3 stuns, one when the skill hits (if it hits), 1 after 3 seconds, the last after 6 seconds (1 second stun, which has its duration lowered by resistance and deflect).
Constricting Arrow has a 16 second recast with 1158 recovery and 12 INT. 15.6 with 1458. The curve gets much worse from there.
EDIT: Here's the curve
(36x^{1.5})/(102310+x^{1.5})
where x is your recovery value and the solution is your recharge speed increase %
Like I said, this has almost nothing to do with recovery.
Furthermore, the recast timer on this skill is quite high.
There's plenty of stuff that follows the behavior of still applying an effect (cc in this case) even if you dodge it - All of which badly need to be fixed. Some include:
Student of the Sword
Deep Gash
Threatening Rush
skills that add roots
etc
etc
You said Icy Rays has a long recast timer.
My pvp HR has a recast timer of 16.0 seconds on Constricting Arrow.
You say the recast timer on it is too low.
???
Granted Constricting Arrow can be as annoying as hell, you still have half a second between constricts to get a power out. What I usuallly do is use Entagling Force...constrict.. then hit them with a Chill Strike... turns you into a button masher to get it out, but almost always works. This will usually back 80% of HRs off as they are squishy as hell, and you probably just took them down to half health. I typically own most HRs I come across solo. They get their hits in... but usually end up dead.
Again I play all classes... I don't tend to use Constricting Arrow unless there is more than one CW in the enemy team and they have been CCing me to death. I use much more brutal rotations on them... One combo I use will kill a CW outright if he is alone and not running shield on tab.
So to nerf that one ability... will only make others discover the rotation, and make you hate them even more. CA does not need a nerf... it needs you to change your strategy against them. A well balanced team will still destroy a good HR.
Wholeheartedly agree. Especially the knock-prones the fighters throw around.
It's bad enough they are some of the fastest activating melee CCs (compare to the one and only hard-control melee CC a TR has, Dazing Strike, which takes almost 2 seconds in activation), but to have dodged it beforehand but still getting splattered to the ground during mid-dodge just sucks.
Anything -- be it an encounter, at-will, or even a daily -- "undodgeable" is simply bullshi* in a CC-heavy PvP environment, to which the only defense for squishies is shift/dodge/teleport etc..
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If the Constricting Arrows are dodged while HR can't dodge any CW's skills, then during that 16 seconds cooldown, the HR will stand no chance.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
That's hardly a point worth considering. For instance, how is that any different from a (let's say for example) a melee class that fails in its attempt to hit the CW due to a well timed teleport, and then ends up getting CCd by the CW?
If the CW dodged it, then you shot it off at the wrong timing. Why should the system compensate for your failure to get a hit in? Under that logic, then I'd ask for my TR an undodgeable Lashing Blade, please. My target CW/HR might dodge it... oh noes!
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
This can go one of two ways. Either the CW will get their skills off first and perma-CC the HR until victory or the HR will get their skills off first and, if they're good (read: decent hybrid or melee), can kill the CW before the CC wears off.
CWs have the distinct advantage here, but HRs need a nerf?
You guys are funny. Keep up the good jokes.
Not as funny as your failure to comprehend the simple truth about how "undodgeable" is a problem.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Shox is undodgeable, period. It's systematically impossible to dodge/deflect. It always lands.
The only case it fails, is when the target escapes the 30' cylinder during activation (longer than any dodge distance, only happens with a badly-timed Shox activation), in which case the failure might consume AP (much like the Shadow Strike bug)... and interrupt means nothing since it can simply be reactivated.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
The second case is, if the tr dies between activation and completion of shocking.
My TR has missed with Shocking Execution more than once.
I love killing HRs at range, with my TR, but I guess that's about to end.
Shadow Strike can't be dodged, and if it missed, there's no cooldown, you just get closer and cast again. Maybe that's why most people stopped using Lashing Blade, it's so 2013.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)