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CW Shatter Strike needs reworking
astronax
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Shatter Strike is a last feat in Oppressor tree and, as mentioned in title, it needs a buff or rework. I know how devs treat threads with rework suggestions (ignore), but I'll just leave it here, whatever.
Currently it makes Chill Strike apply 3 stacks of chill instead of 1 (which is nice) and Ice Storm - 5, instead of 1 (which kinda sucks).
May be in theory 5 stacks instead of 1 seems nice, but I assure you, as a long time oppressor (since june) it's not even bad, it's USELESS. Literally! For example, Cold Infusion (foes, afflicted with chill deal 1%/2%/3%/4%/5% less damage) is bad, but at least it has SOME use. More so, it's useless for both PvP and PvE.
Atm, Shatter Strike works as if this Ice Storm part never existed - only the Chill Strike part works.
Why? First of all - Ice Storm hardly ever used by anyone, but it's like different story, whatever. Main reason - it's about debuff duration times. Assume, I did Ice Storm and now have 5 stacks of chill on the target, and, ofc, PRONED target. What to do next? Make a CC chain you say? Follow-up prone by 6 stacks freeze stun? Well, no!!! Ice Storm makes target prone for about 1-1.5 seconds - by this time, when it recovers from prone, if you didn't turn your 5 stacks into freeze stun, stacks are gone. Only way to freeze stun the target - immediately after cast. And in this case you just OVERLAP your CC, replacing prone by freeze. More so, you trading STRONGER version of CC (prone) by WEAKER (freeze). What the point than? :eek: Its the same for both PvP and PvE - Ice Storm's prone duration and chill stacks duration WONT ALLOW you to do a NON-OVERLAPING CC combo.
There are tons of possible ways to rework it (i mean, Ice Storm part, Chill Strike is fine). Some of them:
1) Simple increase damage dealt to frozen targets. 5-10%, for example. Not OP in any way, since freeze is too short to exploit it.
2) Increase freeze stun duration by a percentage, or, as alternative, make it less vulnerable to breaking from damage.
3) Reduce amount of chill stacks, required to freeze a target from 6 to 5.
4) Increase chill stacks debuff duration, lets say by 20%
5) increase chill stacks slow debuff strength. Like if its 50% with 5 chill stacks, make it 75% for example.
6)
Any of the above would be cool, but right now it's just plain weak, compared to other trees last feat, not to mention other classes. As a result of reworking it, more people would choose oppressor path - while today noone even think about it. (You could notice those threads on CW forum "Which is better, Thaumaturge or Renegade?")
Currently it makes Chill Strike apply 3 stacks of chill instead of 1 (which is nice) and Ice Storm - 5, instead of 1 (which kinda sucks).
May be in theory 5 stacks instead of 1 seems nice, but I assure you, as a long time oppressor (since june) it's not even bad, it's USELESS. Literally! For example, Cold Infusion (foes, afflicted with chill deal 1%/2%/3%/4%/5% less damage) is bad, but at least it has SOME use. More so, it's useless for both PvP and PvE.
Atm, Shatter Strike works as if this Ice Storm part never existed - only the Chill Strike part works.
Why? First of all - Ice Storm hardly ever used by anyone, but it's like different story, whatever. Main reason - it's about debuff duration times. Assume, I did Ice Storm and now have 5 stacks of chill on the target, and, ofc, PRONED target. What to do next? Make a CC chain you say? Follow-up prone by 6 stacks freeze stun? Well, no!!! Ice Storm makes target prone for about 1-1.5 seconds - by this time, when it recovers from prone, if you didn't turn your 5 stacks into freeze stun, stacks are gone. Only way to freeze stun the target - immediately after cast. And in this case you just OVERLAP your CC, replacing prone by freeze. More so, you trading STRONGER version of CC (prone) by WEAKER (freeze). What the point than? :eek: Its the same for both PvP and PvE - Ice Storm's prone duration and chill stacks duration WONT ALLOW you to do a NON-OVERLAPING CC combo.
There are tons of possible ways to rework it (i mean, Ice Storm part, Chill Strike is fine). Some of them:
1) Simple increase damage dealt to frozen targets. 5-10%, for example. Not OP in any way, since freeze is too short to exploit it.
2) Increase freeze stun duration by a percentage, or, as alternative, make it less vulnerable to breaking from damage.
3) Reduce amount of chill stacks, required to freeze a target from 6 to 5.
4) Increase chill stacks debuff duration, lets say by 20%
5) increase chill stacks slow debuff strength. Like if its 50% with 5 chill stacks, make it 75% for example.
6)
I think simply adding 15% mitigation on Chill Strike (all targets on tabb) would be good and remove the chill stacks from the most useless power in-game "Ice Storm" (in both PvP and PvE).
Any of the above would be cool, but right now it's just plain weak, compared to other trees last feat, not to mention other classes. As a result of reworking it, more people would choose oppressor path - while today noone even think about it. (You could notice those threads on CW forum "Which is better, Thaumaturge or Renegade?")
Post edited by astronax on
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In my opinion, the problem is :
Shatter Strike only increase damage if used with Chilling Presence.
a- There's better Class Feature to used in PvP
b- Chilling Presence is used in PvE but Oppressor isn't.
c- The 3 layer of Ice help in keeping target frozen.
For me, Oppressor need a change to make it interesting in PvE and the same go for Thaum/Renegade in PvP.
To not that Thaum is actually good in PvP too because it's heavy debuff.
I think simply adding 15% mitigation on Chill Strike (all targets on tabb) would be good and remove the chill stacks from the most useless power in-game "Ice Storm" (in both PvP and PvE).
I know how about since GF class are useless, the GFs are added as ammunition and the CW launch the GF into the Shatter doubling the damage that way the GF will have a use?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Dude, you had your argument in CW forum already.
You were talking from a lvl 40 GF PoV, if I recall it correctly? After I pointed that out, u called me "Don't-nerf-me-bro", right? More than half of PvP community (and not just wizards among them) tried to convince you it's not true and CW actually is the weakest class in PvP atm. While the rest urged you to lvl-up your toon to 60 and grab some gear.
And now you're here, repeating the same. Like, srsly? :eek:
This is not a GF balance discussion thread, so if you don't have anything usefull to say, please, remain silent. More so, its not even a CW balance discussion thread, since im talking about Oppressor (which noone even plays) SINGLE feat.
.........
Nice Zengi, cool and simple, added to #0.
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e.g. "Your chill effect is now applicable to targets immune to chill, but it don't slow their movement and can't freeze them. In addition, targets affected by chill have their mitigation reduced by 15%"
i think its not that OP considering whole tree isn't that damage focused, it would make oppressor good in PVE and it would even add some more potential to PVP, % number is a subject to change ofc, 10% could be enough considering all other chill feats synergy, this would be real control/debuff spec and i would definitely like to play it
EDIT: the idea comes from WOW, where frost mage was a bit lacking in PVE because he profit from freezing targets but he couldn't freeze targets immune to CC (especially bosses), so his dps there was bad... then they gave him a talent which added a chance for all chilling spells to apply a debuff which acted like target was frozen in case of his other talents and mechanics
Well, if i'm not mistaken, it's been fixed and now chill stacks apply to Bosses (in exact way you suggesting it). While % mitigation debuff for targets, affected with chill seems a bit OP, even for the last feat (since you can uphold chill 100% of time). Personally, I like Zengi's idea more.
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Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Keep in mind, Tiah's post is about PvP. Almost nobody plays Oppressor these days. The suggestions would not make CWs more powerful, it would only bring Oppressor slightly more on par with Thaum or Rene.
Again. This is about PvP, not about PvE, and about CWs, not GFs.
And again, CWs are NOT OP in PvP. They are the opposite of OP. If you meet CWs that seem OP to you, it is because they outgear you and outplay you by a large amount, due to their long months of playtime and experience.
Also, GF vs CW at hight skill levels/great gear is not even a very favorable matchup for the CW to be honest. The only problems are in PvE, but this is not the scope of this topic. There are already many other topics of people complaining of their underpowered PvE class.
....................... Thx, Persephone, I didn't now how to say that in short. More so, @ripyourlipsoff, if you feel like this happens all the time - something is wrong with your gear setup, feats or playstyle. In fair 1v1 with even gear and skill you should be feeling like (as Persephone said), "I can beat you, you jumping motherf**ker. Just gimme a sec, i'll land a good prone and you're toast." It's a skill matchup, definitely not in CW favor only. Somewhat 50v50, in case of even gear and skill, again. Your threatening rush is ridiculously OP - once you get close and start to spam it u just force CW out of dodges and your FLS is almost undodgeable (just by prediction, not by reaction), use those for your advantage. Also, you can troll CW to flush his significant CCs just by raising/dropping your shield. And I'm not even speaking of Villain's Menace here.
</off-topic>
This^ I'm not suggesting to buff whole wizard, I said it. Just single feat in oppressor tree. And not just buff - replace one COMPLETELY USELESS mechanics (5 stacks Ice Storm) with something - not necessary good or OP - at least with something useful. Literally, something, I can use against my foes. Even as bad as that mentioned Cold Infusion (foes, afflicted with chill deal 1%/2%/3%/4%/5% less damage) - I would be fine with that
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Aside from that, name just one? (And yes, I've seen them all)
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Instigator's Vengeance,Destroyer's Purpose,Ruthless Efficiency, all dc ,Iron Guard this are some of underpowerd last feats they are very under powerd if u compare it to cw tell me one class who have far supirior last feats to cw cw is enough op as it is now and u want to give him even another op last feat if anything his other 2 last feat need nerf
You, as a melee, BENEFIT from both Renegade and Thaumaturge capstones a lot.
Why in the world do you want to hit 15% less on mobs? Don't you want them debuffed by CoI so you hit harder and play more efficiently?
As for Renegade Chaos Magic or whatever it's called, it's a pretty lame RANDOM debuff/buff of sorts. It helps people near affected mob most, so again, it helps your melee char a lot.
Why oh why don't you want to profit from this?!? It's crazy
no it is not crazy cw are to much wanted this would help a bit at least if any class needed skills like this is gf ,tr,hr to become more wanted cw would be wanted even if do not buff and debuff mobs so much
I'll repeat: currently Shatter Strike is the next "Your Ice Storm daily power now applies 5 stacks of Chill instead of 1. Your Chill Strike power now applies 3 instead of 1."
In theory it's ok, but in practice it's equivalent to "Your Chill Strike power now applies 3 instead of 1.". Second part doesn't have ANY USE - it's the same as if it never existed. There are no situations in game, where it can be any helpful. Not in PvP, nor in PvE. I explained this in details at #0, read it again (some fancy words about badly calculated debuffs durations, beware)
All those feats, that you mentioned HAVE A USE. They are definitely not good, but they have a use.
Thus, this thread is not calling to buff CWs, again (telling this 3d or 4th time in a row). Oppressor path hardly even used by anyone and, even if they rework this last feat, I really doubt it'll ever will. But what this thread IS calling: to bring Oppressor in line with Thaumaturge and Renegade. And for hell's sake, it doesn't mean I want other weak paragon feats to be abandoned - i just simply DON'T CARE about them, feel the difference. If you do, make your OWN thread with a point, but stop flooding in MINE.
P.S.
Sorry for lot of mistakes, didn't have much time to spell it carefully.
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HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
I don't mean to say your concern has no validity, or in anyway that I am an expert on CWs, or that your not completely right anyway, but it seems to me the above statement and the statement saying it has zero use are contradictory. In PvP you are on a _team_. If you can overlap CC to keep a key player CCed for longer (say a DC), well your team mates kill them, I'd say that'd be very useful. I'm not sure there are any non-CC immune mobs in a dungeon that would benefit from being forced into chain-CC (all I can think of are those Berserkers), but could there be a team synergy use you are missing?
I'd say you are absolutely right it has no use to the _solo_ CW, but, really, aren't we playing a massively _multiplayer_ online game?
Seriously? Good GF is one of the most annoying sights in pvp as they can tank really huge amounts of damage before going down and thus basically single handedly keep one base occupied. Adding to that the fact that with shield up, CW needs to use much time to freeze the target before they can even use their encounters on him and some have nasty habit of having traits that return some of the damage to the caster, which makes them even more unattractive targets.
Thus my conclusion would be:
A) You are some low level player judging characters by cover and don't really know classes pros and cons yet and/or have all abilities unlocked.
C) You don't know how to play the particular class and need either more training, different gear or start with another class.
If you really think CW is that good, create one yourself and try to play it right. Being among the squishiest classes and bound not to move for optimal damage with three blinks separating you from death and everyone concentrating on you in both PvP and PvE, you will soon notice that any decent CW must be twice as good strategist as with any other class as every single mistake means death for you. On the brighter side, when you learn how to play it right though, a good CW build is probably the best in soloing PvE.
With the author I really agree. Oppressor is the weakest show in the weakest PvP class and definitely needs a rework. One possibility would be with Ice Storm increasing the duration of every chill stack and frozen condition for its duration. This would prolong the effects and actually make it somewhat usable. I'm still not sure it would be enough redeem the Oppressor path though.