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Plague Fire or Vorpal or Lightning? What's the best for CW and why?
amendoimdoce
Member Posts: 6 Arc User
So,
the name of the topic says everything, who is the best?
Thanks
the name of the topic says everything, who is the best?
Thanks
Post edited by amendoimdoce on
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Plague fire if you're looking to debuff and help everyone do more damage. Vorpal if you're looking to just put up high DPS numbers.
If you run with the same people all the time, you might take into consideration what everyone else is doing. If you already have another CW (or GWF) in your team that is running PF, then you might consider Vorpal instead, or another debuff/mitigation enchant.
Pvorpal will increase your own dps by 18% @ 50% overall crit.
So if your party is good having JUST one member with GPF is a good idea, usually the cleric does that.
Edit:
Often times there is no cleric for even faster but more stressful runs, in those cases there isn't a GPF at all unless one of the CWs keeps one ready.
just tested GPF and it's still 9% at 3 stacks, its just nearly impossible to maintain 3 stacks since they fall off so quickly:
also PVorpal is 14.2% DPS increase at 50% overall crit if your crit severity without it is 75%. It's less if you have more crit severity.
Did you fail to read "it's not 9%, try it on actual mobs to see that" ? You go ahead and test it on a dummy...
Also pvorp is not 14.2% DPS, it's 18.2%. You can't just take the % increase in crit damage and multiply it by crit chance... it doesn't work like that. Math is hard?
Please correct your own math and explain the concepts a little better if you are trying to be helpful. Giving your "answers" without explaining why or how isn't much use. Please explain how and why GPF has differing results depending on the target and interaction with other debuffs. Give us some analysis of how 1 GPF / 1 Terror / 3 PVorp effects group DPS vs 5 PVorp. Stuff like that. Show us your maths and big pretty brains.
I have no idea why GPF works differently on actual mobs, I suspect it's because they have DR but all I know is that the logs say 7% on mobs and 9% on dummies.
As for crit I will just give you this obvious trivial equation, maybe you can use it.
avg dmg = crit_prob*(1.00 + crit_sev) + (1 -crit_prob) * 1.00
If you know math you should be able to use that to derive actual dps increase from any increases in crit and severity.
So to start off, let's list how much crit severity each version of vorpal gives and add it to our base crit severity (75%):
None: 0% + 75% = 75%
Lesser: 12% + 75% = 87%
Normal: 25% + 75% = 100%
Greater: 38% + 75% = 113%
Perfect: 50% + 75% = 125%
This means that your crits will do 75% more (than non-crits) with no vorpal, 87% more damage with a lesser, 100% more with a normal, etc..
Let's say you did a non-crit hit of 10,000 damage. If that hit did crit, it would produce the following damage:
None: 10,000 x 1.75 = 17,500
Lesser: 10,000 x 1.87 = 18,700
Normal: 10,000 x 2.00 = 20,000
Greater: 10,000 x 2.13 = 21,300
Perfect: 10,000 x 2.25 = 22,500
22,500 - 17,500 = 5000 <-Perfect vorpal does 5000 more damage than no vorpal
5000 / 17,500 = 0.2857 x 100 = about 28.6% more damage
So your crits will deal 28.6% more damage with a perfect vorpal compared to no vorpal.
Now multiply this by your crit chance. To make it simple, we'll say you have 50% crit chance:
28.6 x 0.5 = 14.3%
This means that a perfect vorpal will increase your overall damage by about 14.3% (assuming you have a 50% chance to crit).
(base_dmg) * (1 + ((crit_prob) * (crit_sev))) = avg_dmg
Lets plug some numbers in and see what comes out
50% first:
1 * (1 + ((.50) * (.75))) = 1.375 [no enchant]
1 * (1 + ((.50) * (1.25))) = 1.625 [PVorp]
1.625/1.325 = ~1.225
Looks like a PVorp adds 18.18% to total damage at 50% crit_prob.
25% next:
1 * (1 + ((.25) * (.75))) = 1.1875 [no enchant]
1 * (1 + ((.25) * (1.25))) = 1.3125 [PVorp]
1.3125/1.1625 = ~ 1.129
.... so 10.53% at 25% ....
100% just for fun:
1 * (1 + ((1) * (.75))) = 1.75 [no enchant]
1 * (1 + ((1) * (1.25))) = 2.25 [PVorp]
2.25/1.175 = ~ 1.286
.... so 28.6% at 100%
Wow that is fun, we have a curve \o/. It might be super fun to make a formula to determine what the break point is between power and crit with a PVorp!
I'm not sure that is much use for discussing Vorpal for a CW, as EoTS makes calculating crit_prob ... problematic. Let us make this fun
Edit: Found a two multiplication errors. Yeay, sleep.
At 50%, using math similar to what you did above a P.Vorpal is 18.181818....% Personal DPS increase.
A GPF, the weapon ticks (in general) are about a 5% DPS increase. In addition, you team does (3%*PF Stacks) more damage.
So in evaluating this, is 13.18% personal DPS or say, 4-5% team DPS higher? Unless you out DPS your teammates by 40% (unlikely), the GPF does more for the group.
Terror works in a similar way, 5% weapon damage increase + 4% team DPS increase (terror enchant has near 100% uptime, plague fire does not).
I have not tested lightning on a CW - but i know GWFs do really large damage with a lightning, the problem with this similar to the vorpal enchant, not helping your team out, in addition, drawing a mountain of aggro.
In general, the options my guildmates are using for PvE
TR: Vorpal
CW: GPF/P.Terror/Vorpal
GF: I use GPF, no one else plays GF
GWF: LD,P.Light,GPF,P.Flaming,P.Vorpal (vorpal highest DPS)
DC: P.Terror,P.Vorpal,GPF,P.HA
HR: Vorpal,GPF
Comparing them is difficult because of the team setups and personal playstyle, but our general consensus is to have a CW carry the debuff enchant, a TR/GWF carry the vorpal, and a DC make a choice on what they feel is best.
I think for HR it depends on spec (vorp for Archery, probably GPF other trees).
I don't play with enough GFs to evaluate,
Long answer, a bit off topic, but it seems to be working.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
GF, all AD costs being equal, I would suggest PTerror, as it can be kept up universally without hindering play.
DC, I lean Frost. Careful use of it can turn a number of encounters into a strong CCs/interrupts, and the ability to interrupt with at-wills from a distance adds another layer to what a DC can bring to a fight - assuming they are willing to carefully track targets and ration its use. I can see the argument for a PVorp for a crit build or even an Avenger. That said, Frost is a see it to believe it kind of thing. I failed to convince a friend it was useful until I went over to his house and showed him. I think he has bought two since.
base_dmg is irrelevant, why would you include it? Also your math is completely way off.
Maybe you should look at my equation again, carefully.
People like you always forget that crit is a probability, which means you have crit % chance to do (100+severity) % damage BUT (100 - crit %) % chance to only do 100%.
I don't know why I have to spoonfeed you, go study math.
My errors were much more basic then that. I messed up multiplication. Twice. What I get for doing things in my head late at night
Past that, our formulas get the same results. Funny, that. While I might profit from remembering some multiplication, or at least using the calculator late at night, you might profit from remembering that formulas can be simplified, and maybe some tact. I hope that whatever made you so bitter and negative gets better for you
I also assumed that because you took the time to write something in a public forum that you might have had an intent other then to "enjoy writing in a style that lets impressionable people assume I actually care about how my posts are perceived (negative, bitter, etc) instead of attempting to get amusing reactions".
To me, that sounds a lot like you just said you like to be rude in forums for fun. I do tend to simplify things
Do you also "enjoy talking to people in person in a style that lets impressionable people assume I actually care about how my words are perceived (negative, bitter, etc) instead of attempting to get amusing reactions" too or is it more the kind of thing you like to do in forums?