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Is RT'S whisperingknife paragon worth playing? pls help me out

khris112khris112 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
edited February 2014 in The Thieves' Den
I look over alot builds they all favor the paragon with impossible to catch
Im level 26 now I saw the at-will of whisperingknife, it does around 2k per tick

how long does it take for a tick?
does it worth for a newbie to try?
is impossible for catch really that big of a deal?
is it worth?
Post edited by khris112 on

Comments

  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    There's a whisperknife thread in the class forums, you sho9uld check it out. there's lots of important info in there.
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  • izidiusizidius Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 40
    edited February 2014
    I changed to whisperknife when it first came out and changed back shortly after. Absolutely hated it for various reasons which include crappy damage and the skills just felt meh. No offense to any whisperknife builds out there...
  • edited February 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    If you really think about it, there isn't much difference between WK or MI. The main difference between WK and MI mostly concerns PvP, and only under specific conditions.


    In PvE the difference is almost a non-issue, since while there may be small differences here and there, ultimately PvE damage/performance is effected by the Heroic paths (Sab/Scound/Exec..) and gear/equip settings, rather than MI/WK. The only difference is ITC/Gloaming Cut vs. VP/Disheartening Strike, and a few class features.

    In PvP, WK and MI also may not differ so much IF your PvP method revolves around the standard/orthodox TR tactics. Aside from a few class features, the difference in skill/powers is Gloaming Cut - Disheartening Strike, and ITC - VP.

    Most TRs never dream of venturing outside the standard "throw knives from stealth" + "stealth-ITC sequential rotation" method, so if this is your thing then WK builds can simply be built as the same perma/semi-perma, and use same ranged powers as main mode of attack; the only difference from MI being lack of ITC and Shocking Execution, and therefore deemed a less efficient than the original MI version. WK version of the MI builds do have a bit higher damage in knife-throwing powers thanks to features like Dagger Threat, but the absence of ITC leaves little room for error.

    So in this case, not as much difference as you might think.


    ...

    Now, if you want something else than the "throw knives from the dark" thing, then that's where the fun begins with WK. Maybe something like this:

    http://youtu.be/OIGHIt1CMmE

    - no INT dependancy, no regen dependancy, no HP dedendancy
    - doesn't use ITC, doesn't use IS, doesn't use DF, doesn't use CoS
    - doesn't use Shoxecution
    - doesn't use SissyForge

    ...totally different, but fun to play with, good enough to work against most situations, most enemies. Maybe not against super-high level "pros", but seriously, how many of those do you seen in PvP queues?


    Conclusion: Whether it is worthy or not, basically depends on how much effort and practice you put in to make it worthy. Sometimes the effort may fails, sometimes it works. To me, heckuva lot better than blindly following what others tell you is right.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • edgethemcedgethemc Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    kweassa wrote: »
    If you really think about it, there isn't much difference between WK or MI. The main difference between WK and MI mostly concerns PvP, and only under specific conditions.


    In PvE the difference is almost a non-issue, since while there may be small differences here and there, ultimately PvE damage/performance is effected by the Heroic paths (Sab/Scound/Exec..) and gear/equip settings, rather than MI/WK. The only difference is ITC/Gloaming Cut vs. VP/Disheartening Strike, and a few class features.

    In PvP, WK and MI also may not differ so much IF your PvP method revolves around the standard/orthodox TR tactics. Aside from a few class features, the difference in skill/powers is Gloaming Cut - Disheartening Strike, and ITC - VP.

    Most TRs never dream of venturing outside the standard "throw knives from stealth" + "stealth-ITC sequential rotation" method, so if this is your thing then WK builds can simply be built as the same perma/semi-perma, and use same ranged powers as main mode of attack; the only difference from MI being lack of ITC and Shocking Execution, and therefore deemed a less efficient than the original MI version. WK version of the MI builds do have a bit higher damage in knife-throwing powers thanks to features like Dagger Threat, but the absence of ITC leaves little room for error.

    So in this case, not as much difference as you might think.


    ...

    Now, if you want something else than the "throw knives from the dark" thing, then that's where the fun begins with WK. Maybe something like this:

    http://youtu.be/OIGHIt1CMmE

    - no INT dependancy, no regen dependancy, no HP dedendancy
    - doesn't use ITC, doesn't use IS, doesn't use DF, doesn't use CoS
    - doesn't use Shoxecution
    - doesn't use SissyForge

    ...totally different, but fun to play with, good enough to work against most situations, most enemies. Maybe not against super-high level "pros", but seriously, how many of those do you seen in PvP queues?


    Conclusion: Whether it is worthy or not, basically depends on how much effort and practice you put in to make it worthy. Sometimes the effort may fails, sometimes it works. To me, heckuva lot better than blindly following what others tell you is right.


    I have to agree with this. I am running a WK and I ran the MI cuz it was all I had at the time I made my char. I am quite poorly geared and I have been enjoying PvP much more than I did when I was running MI.

    WK is kind of a troll path, cuz it gives you the DoT of DS and the prone effect of its daily, so its kinda good to mess up GWFs, I've killed some of those with those tactics... Also, WK is more of a "I'm right there, now I'm here" kind of path, cuz you get to close in very quickly with VP and the Daily, so... there's that.

    While I admit there is still a bit of polishing to do, I think WK is quite a solid choice. It really depends on your playstyle... :) I like it... But what do I know... :p
  • todesfaelletodesfaelle Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    edgethemc wrote: »
    ...I like it.

    In the end this is all that really matters.

    It's a game. Just explore and have fun, I say. If it's fun, then it's worth playing. People have been forgetting this lately. I'm building a Solo Tiefling WK right now and the first thing I wanna do with it once it is 60 is to solo Dracolich. That, for me, is fun. Some people may not understand what's so fun in beating on a boss for 1 hour by yourself, but some people will see it the same way as you. All that's left for us to do is to make our builds work in a way that it'll be competitive. As long as you have that theme you want for your play style in your head, just build your character towards that idea and think of how you'll be able to improve that theme with what the game provides you.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I have both a WK and MI, both Executioners, PVE only.

    Disheartening Strike is a great skill. For solo play it will absolutely wreck weak mobs, killing them given time. Combine it with Blitz and you don't have to worry much about getting surrounded by powries and such. Hitting a Witherer once will take the healer out of the fight, fire and forget. It also adds a DoT to stronger mobs, combined with DF will speed up fights considerably.

    Vengeance Pursuit on the other hand is pretty poor. It doesn't break CC, despite what the tool tip says. The dagger throw part wears off too quickly and in group play has a nasty tendency to target party members, companions and then tell you they aren't valid targets. There doesn't seem to be any indication that the dagger throw part is active, you're ready to teleport or when that runs out. It ought to be great for a fight like against Idris, countering both her CC and her ability to teleport. Instead, you just always end up stunned and/or out of range.

    I didn't really bother with the first class feature. Advantageous Position seems ok. It works well for me with the Skulker set since that gives me more stealth and bonus damage when stealthed, the feature gives me bonus damage after stealth ends.

    The daily is ok. Does a fair amount of damage and leaves the target prone.

    I can't really recommend the paragon for group play. Losing ITC for VP really seems to hurt a rogue's ability to stay on a boss since so many of those have no range AOE and CC powers. Disheartening Strike is great. Because of that and the fact that I've already got an MI, my WK won't be changing paths. But she probably won't do a lot of dungeons either. Not saying that the path isn't viable in group play, but it really doesn't offer anything that an MI can't do as well.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    pitshade wrote: »
    I have both a WK and MI, both Executioners, PVE only.

    Disheartening Strike is a great skill. For solo play it will absolutely wreck weak mobs, killing them given time. Combine it with Blitz and you don't have to worry much about getting surrounded by powries and such. Hitting a Witherer once will take the healer out of the fight, fire and forget. It also adds a DoT to stronger mobs, combined with DF will speed up fights considerably.

    Agreed. Very potent, both in PvP and PvE. The only problem would be how you get "used" to the activation animation. Those who are used to quick-activation skills usually show signs of frustration and can't really seem to adapt to it, but it really is very important to remember to refresh it every time it is about to run out.

    Vengeance Pursuit on the other hand is pretty poor. It doesn't break CC, despite what the tool tip says.

    I wouldn't exactly agree that it is poor, however, it is correct that the tooltip does not portray the skill accurately. If anyone's interested in WK, especially in PvP, I would advise that;

    (1) VP is almost exclusively a PvP skill
    (2) Just disregard the tooltip -- just accept it as a truth that WK has no CC breakers and adapt acordingly
    (3) The real potential of VP lies in the fact that it is a 0 recharge gap-closer

    In a nutshell, VP allows WKs to be more 'melee-oriented' since no matter how much the enemy tries to buy distance, you can close in. However, because WK does not have any CC breakers, it becomes a dilemma that even if you close in, the tables can simply turn on you when the enemy hits you with CC.

    ...hence, the logical conclusion leading me to the VP - Dazing Strike combo. Land the VP stun, follow-up with Dazing Strike, more follow-up attacks, and then back away when daze duration is about to be over. "In-and-Out".

    Ofcourse, like I've mentioned, you can just disregard the need to play it "different" from MI builds altogether.

    The dagger throw part wears off too quickly and in group play has a nasty tendency to target party members, companions and then tell you they aren't valid targets.

    9 seconds is actually pretty longer than you might expect. Ofcourse, since you mentioned that you only PvE, things might feel different.. but in PvP it is long enough to:

    * VP(mark) -- Stealth-Approach -- Stealthed Dazing Strike -- Shadow Strike -- 3~4 attacks -- Disheartening Strike

    ...by this time the enemy has moved away from melee range, and VP(teleport) for extra damage, and then stealth and move away.

    There doesn't seem to be any indication that the dagger throw part is active, you're ready to teleport or when that runs out. It ought to be great for a fight like against Idris, countering both her CC and her ability to teleport. Instead, you just always end up stunned and/or out of range.

    Watch the power icon to see whether you're gonna VP(mark) or VP(TP). As for the duration, you need to watch either the VP icon under your character portrait, or just time it by heart.

    I didn't really bother with the first class feature. Advantageous Position seems ok. It works well for me with the Skulker set since that gives me more stealth and bonus damage when stealthed the feature gives me bonus damage after stealth ends.

    Which is exactly why WK "melds" a lot better with Scoundrel than Executioner. Triple buff right out of stealth -- Cunning Ambusher + Advantageous Position + Whirlwind Sneak Attack.

    The daily is ok. Does a fair amount of damage and leaves the target prone.

    I can't really recommend the paragon for group play. Losing ITC for VP really seems to hurt a rogue's ability to stay on a boss since so many of those have no range AOE and CC powers. Disheartening Strike is great. Because of that and the fact that I've already got an MI, my WK won't be changing paths. But she probably won't do a lot of dungeons either. Not saying that the path isn't viable in group play, but it really doesn't offer anything that an MI can't do as well.

    Not in PvE. That much is true.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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