test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Suggestion: DD event & dungeons in general
bajornorbert
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 272 Arc User
1. Raise GS requirements
The current minimum GS is way too low for the current GSs achievable by a fresh 60. While you have no chance to do the majority of the dungeons at min GS, if you're in a decent guild they can carry you through the majority of the dungeons w/o a problem. The GS requirements for entering a T2 is the same since open beta, but the GS you'll have by the time you hit 60 will be much higher than in open beta, and 10 mins later you'll be able to enter T2s without a problem.
Imo the minimum GS to enter a dungeon should be raised to:
T1s/FC: no change;
T2s/DK: 9500 or 10000;
CN: 12000;
MC/VT: 13000;
Why so high for DK? Because it's the best way to farm T2s and a fresh 60 shouldn't be able to enter it, make them work for their T2s/AD.
Why so high for VT? Because you shouldn't be able to farm VT 3-7 days after you hit 60, because it drops a very good weapon set, as good as the CN one for the majority of the classes, and it's much easier and faster to do than CN 4/4.
2. Increase difficulty of T2 & T2+ dungeons
At 14k+ GS, which is easily achievable by anyone, the T2s are a joke. Every dungeon and every boss fight turns into mindless AoE spamming and this results in a lot of GFs and TRs leaving the game, or asking for GWF & CW nerfs on the forum, since they are usually left out of speed runs. Before module 2 the majority of the servers population consisted of TRs, you had a TR in almost every party, now you usually only take one if it's a good friend of yours, which is a shame.
The real solution to this would be to add resistances, but that requires a lot of coding, so probably won't happen, at least not in the near future. But making the elites and bosses much tougher, should be fairly easy, and should in theory slow down runs a bit and if buffed enough it might give GFs their job back
3. Get rid of the DD event and introduce dungeon keys
Probably this should've been no.1 on the list, since it's the change with the highest possible positive impact on the game. At the moment a good amount of the speed runs are because of this event, since players want to maximize their chance of getting something useful from the chest.
There should be 3 keys in total 1 for every tier and you should get 1 key for free every day. The prices should be, imo, 1000 AD for a key that let's you enter a heroic dungeon, 5000 AD for the T1 key and 10000 AD for the T2+ key.
It should work in a similar way as the module 2 lairs. You get a free key every day from Rhix. Every dungeon should require a key to enter and use up the key as soon as you enter the dungeon. You should be able to enter any dungeon whenever you want and get the chest at the end, thus allowing everyone to play when they have time for it.
The key should be used up on entering for 2 reasons:
1. It would make "someone runs rest of the party reenters the dungeon"-style exploit less profitable, since they will now use 2 keys, which is 20k AD for a chance to get a BoE T2 or anything worth selling;
2. It would make partial runs less profitable (CN 1/4; MC 2/3; VT 1/2) and more importantly it won't allow you to do multiple partial runs using only 1 key.
FC and DK should be considered T1 & T2 respectively, and would require a key just as any other dungeon, but it would be doable only during the GG event, just as now.
BUT, the same time as you introduce the keys, fix MC drop rates, since it would be very-very annoying to get 3 blues for your 10k AD. Add T1 set pieces to Fulminorax's drop table and decrease the chance of dropping blues, drop rates similar to VT should be good. Also increase the chance of the previous 2 bosses to drop blue/purple marks. MC is the worst dungeon in terms of drops and asking 10k for a key for a dungeon that drops nothing 95% of the time is just wrong.
4. Introduce legendary (T3) dungeons
By giving something to do/farm to high GS players you might not need to raise the minimum GS/difficulty of existing dungeons so high. You started introducing legendary equipment, which as of now doesn't give a considerable boost to justify the new color, but if you already added the possibility to add higher tier equipment you should do so.
Add 3 new T3 armor sets for every class, a new T3 weapon set for every class, and new T3 jewelry, but make them better than the exisiting sets, especially their set bonuses, otherwise no one will care after a few days, and will go back to farming T2s/CN.
Add 4 instances for the 4 armor pieces, make them require at least 14k GS to enter and 15k+ to beat. Then add another 4 boss dungeon, for the other equipments. Drops should be as follows: 1st boss T3 waist, 2nd boss T3 neck, 3rd boss T3 ring, 4th boss T3 offhand and fragments to craft the T3 main-hand. Make it require 15k GS to enter and possibly 16k+ to beat. Also make a few T3 waists with offensive slots otherwise everyone will continue to use their blue belts.
Make the T3 dungeons hard, make them require team-work, make them require GFs and TRs/HRs, don't make another CN with tougher mobs, make the dungeons harder by making some very good boss mechanics, that require tactics, don't make it hard by making the bosses spam 30 trash mobs every second.
This game has a lot of potential, but i feel like a lot of the development time/creativity is wasted on fixing the looks of GWF weapons, a thing that should be of very low priority. CW weapons are broken since open beta, but who cares? Work on new content and everyone will be happy.
The current minimum GS is way too low for the current GSs achievable by a fresh 60. While you have no chance to do the majority of the dungeons at min GS, if you're in a decent guild they can carry you through the majority of the dungeons w/o a problem. The GS requirements for entering a T2 is the same since open beta, but the GS you'll have by the time you hit 60 will be much higher than in open beta, and 10 mins later you'll be able to enter T2s without a problem.
Imo the minimum GS to enter a dungeon should be raised to:
T1s/FC: no change;
T2s/DK: 9500 or 10000;
CN: 12000;
MC/VT: 13000;
Why so high for DK? Because it's the best way to farm T2s and a fresh 60 shouldn't be able to enter it, make them work for their T2s/AD.
Why so high for VT? Because you shouldn't be able to farm VT 3-7 days after you hit 60, because it drops a very good weapon set, as good as the CN one for the majority of the classes, and it's much easier and faster to do than CN 4/4.
2. Increase difficulty of T2 & T2+ dungeons
At 14k+ GS, which is easily achievable by anyone, the T2s are a joke. Every dungeon and every boss fight turns into mindless AoE spamming and this results in a lot of GFs and TRs leaving the game, or asking for GWF & CW nerfs on the forum, since they are usually left out of speed runs. Before module 2 the majority of the servers population consisted of TRs, you had a TR in almost every party, now you usually only take one if it's a good friend of yours, which is a shame.
The real solution to this would be to add resistances, but that requires a lot of coding, so probably won't happen, at least not in the near future. But making the elites and bosses much tougher, should be fairly easy, and should in theory slow down runs a bit and if buffed enough it might give GFs their job back
3. Get rid of the DD event and introduce dungeon keys
Probably this should've been no.1 on the list, since it's the change with the highest possible positive impact on the game. At the moment a good amount of the speed runs are because of this event, since players want to maximize their chance of getting something useful from the chest.
There should be 3 keys in total 1 for every tier and you should get 1 key for free every day. The prices should be, imo, 1000 AD for a key that let's you enter a heroic dungeon, 5000 AD for the T1 key and 10000 AD for the T2+ key.
It should work in a similar way as the module 2 lairs. You get a free key every day from Rhix. Every dungeon should require a key to enter and use up the key as soon as you enter the dungeon. You should be able to enter any dungeon whenever you want and get the chest at the end, thus allowing everyone to play when they have time for it.
The key should be used up on entering for 2 reasons:
1. It would make "someone runs rest of the party reenters the dungeon"-style exploit less profitable, since they will now use 2 keys, which is 20k AD for a chance to get a BoE T2 or anything worth selling;
2. It would make partial runs less profitable (CN 1/4; MC 2/3; VT 1/2) and more importantly it won't allow you to do multiple partial runs using only 1 key.
FC and DK should be considered T1 & T2 respectively, and would require a key just as any other dungeon, but it would be doable only during the GG event, just as now.
BUT, the same time as you introduce the keys, fix MC drop rates, since it would be very-very annoying to get 3 blues for your 10k AD. Add T1 set pieces to Fulminorax's drop table and decrease the chance of dropping blues, drop rates similar to VT should be good. Also increase the chance of the previous 2 bosses to drop blue/purple marks. MC is the worst dungeon in terms of drops and asking 10k for a key for a dungeon that drops nothing 95% of the time is just wrong.
4. Introduce legendary (T3) dungeons
By giving something to do/farm to high GS players you might not need to raise the minimum GS/difficulty of existing dungeons so high. You started introducing legendary equipment, which as of now doesn't give a considerable boost to justify the new color, but if you already added the possibility to add higher tier equipment you should do so.
Add 3 new T3 armor sets for every class, a new T3 weapon set for every class, and new T3 jewelry, but make them better than the exisiting sets, especially their set bonuses, otherwise no one will care after a few days, and will go back to farming T2s/CN.
Add 4 instances for the 4 armor pieces, make them require at least 14k GS to enter and 15k+ to beat. Then add another 4 boss dungeon, for the other equipments. Drops should be as follows: 1st boss T3 waist, 2nd boss T3 neck, 3rd boss T3 ring, 4th boss T3 offhand and fragments to craft the T3 main-hand. Make it require 15k GS to enter and possibly 16k+ to beat. Also make a few T3 waists with offensive slots otherwise everyone will continue to use their blue belts.
Make the T3 dungeons hard, make them require team-work, make them require GFs and TRs/HRs, don't make another CN with tougher mobs, make the dungeons harder by making some very good boss mechanics, that require tactics, don't make it hard by making the bosses spam 30 trash mobs every second.
This game has a lot of potential, but i feel like a lot of the development time/creativity is wasted on fixing the looks of GWF weapons, a thing that should be of very low priority. CW weapons are broken since open beta, but who cares? Work on new content and everyone will be happy.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
2. No, just go with suggestion #4
3. This will frustrate more people than it will solve problems
4. This is an obvious solution, but they haven't done it due to lack of resources, time etc. who knows. It might come soon but this is the biggest need.
Red
Cafè Crêpe•Control Wizard
I'd want to see that fixed before anything else is added or changed. On recent runs we had empty spots due to drop outs and guild members waiting in the que for 30 minutes while we where struggling through with 3 players.
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
Please elaborate. I can think of nothing simpler that would have such a huge impact on my enjoyment of this game. Give me a key or two per day to access the DD chest at any time of the day. This way folks like myself actually have a reason to run dungeons! I think it's completely absurd to have an mmo restrict its pve content to a few scheduled hours per day. I am at a loss as to why anyone could not think this is the right move. Frankly, I have nothing to do in this game if I miss DD, which is 90% of the time....so I play something else where I CAN log in, find a party, and run a dungeon. I would play more often, for longer, enjoy myself more, and be more inclined to spend money on a game that I can actually...play.
I am already geared out. So if I shall run Karru, just for up to 6k AD (=salvage arms, and that only if I am lucky).
The 3 usually BoE items drops are mostly only for salvage, and if something worth farming drops (T2 Arm from Karru) only 1 person get the item. There is no easy loot (AD) sharing possibility implemented in this game. So tell why I would buy a key for 10k?
Most end game players I know have 300k RAD or more.
I get to 10k GS easily (maybe even 11.5k) with blues and R5 enchants, spending 3k AD on the AH. GS should not be considered for anything.
Rather have people to have finished all T1's before allowing them into T2's.
Or introduce 3 type of keys, have each T1 chests drop a T2 key, and each T2 chests drop VT/CN/MC key.
This would make it a bit more worthwile for a end game player to run with his friends in a T1. At this time there is no incentive at all to run a T1, leaving fresh 60s game players to themselves and depriving them of end game players wisdom (which actually exists for some).
no way. just because the DC from our group DCs I don't want to hang around until another DC gets assigned to my group.
Limiting people to 1 DD chest/day is not a good idea, if you keep the DD chest you need a way to buy more chances of opening the chest/day. The reason for the prices and the use of the key upon entering is to lower the amount of people farming them, since the ones farming don't care about the chest at all so using up the key upon opening the chest will allow farmers to run as many dungeons as they want with 1 key.
The problem is there needs to be some kind of limiting to the amount of free loot you can get, otherwise prices will drop even further, and that's not good for cryptic, since lower prices will sooner or later result in lower AD to Zen conversion ratio, and less people will buy Zen for cash, because they can get everything in a few day of doing dailies. If the price of 1 Zen would be 50 ADs a stone will cost 60k AD, which is easy to get even for a fresh 60 in a just few days. Imo, that's the reason why they made the DD event and made the chest drops BoP, to prevent the market from collapsing. If you played before they made chest drops BoP, you probably remember the prices of the equipments than, you could get your BiS for a few 100k ADs, and we're moving in the same direction again, since with the increase in max GS provided by the 2 modules, but esp mod 2, people are able to do T2 runs in 5-15mins, increasing the supply by a lot.
An example for this is the Ancient necklaces. Before module 2, when farmers were doing CN 1/4 or last boss only, the price of an ancient excorcist necklace was about 250k-300k AD, and i've seen prices as high as 400k AD, now they are 100k-120k AD, since there are more ppl able to do more than CN 1/4 and thanks to the increase in GS a legit CN 4/4 takes ~30mins.
A solution which wouldn't require introducing keys would be to remove the DD event, allow people to do dungeons whenever they want, but remove the chest from the end of the dungeon. This will increase demand and will balance the market, and hopefully increase the prices. I know everyone is used to the free loot at the end of the dungeon, but honestly this is the main reason to keep the DD event or add keys, because giving out T2s, shards, etc for free decreases demand by a lot, since a lot of people farms the dungeon until they get what they need from the chest and sell the ones that the boss drops, especially now, that you can choose from which set you want the armor piece that dropped from the chest.
I personally would love to see the DD chest removed, but this idea will probably get more hate.
I couldn't agree more. I have a small kid so the only times I can do dungeons during DD are between 20:00 and 23:00 (I'm living in Germany). This doesn't leave much options. There are runs at 20:00, 22:00, and 23:00 (but that's almost too late). Why isn't there a run at 21:00?
The situation may be better for people in the States. But that's another topic.
I'd like to see at least one free DD key per day to enter dungeons anytime it suits me.
Yeah but without the DD chest, virtually all your gear will have to come from the auction house. I've yet to get a piece of gear from a boss drop, have only gotten them from chests, and those aren't all that common either. Every 7-10 DD's I'd say I actually got something from the chest I used. The key idea I had thought, was to allow you one key per day to access that chest. Take away the chest and the only reason to run dungeons is farming for non tier items to post on the ah, or the 1% a tier piece will drop, which isn't very motivating. The simplest way to not have to rework drops rates and limit farming is allow you to open a chest once per day, perhaps even twice. This doesn't change much for the hardcore farmers, and doesn't change much for the casuals and those not able to play constantly. The rate at which they'll get gear will stay similar.
But really, if it takes them 6 months to introduce a change to DD, I'll be long gone by then. I have no reason to play an mmo with pve being so restricted, as it is now. I'm not asking for increased drop rates or to make gear easier to get, I'm asking for the ability to get gear, period. I cant run DD lately, so I have no reason to run dungeons, so I play roughly 20 minutes a day running daily lairs, then I'm off. Let me run a dungeon on my schedule and stand a remote chance to get a useful piece of gear.
Agreed, on a per dungeon basis. Some are easier than others.
2. Increase difficulty of T2 & T2+ dungeons
No, it is NOT easy to get to 14k, at least not for casual players like me who dont have umpteen hours to grind per day.
If anything, some dungeons need to be toned down to make them more PUG friendly.
3. Get rid of the DD event and introduce dungeon keys
Dungeon keys, yes. But add them in addition to the event.
4. Introduce legendary (T3) dungeons
I dont want to see the game turned into a perpetual arms race ( like WoW). You add T3 items, soon people will be clamoring for T4, and so on. And the gap between the hard-core and casual player widens. If these new dungeons introduce cool cosmetic items, fine.
I like that idea also. Might balance out fairly well, as long as they don't reduce chance to get tier from a chest. As long as I can run a dungeon when I have the time, and have a decent chance to get a piece of gear, I'll be happy. It will likely take longer to complete sets this way, but it will also let me run more dungeons (which is my favorite part of mmo's) so I'll absolutely enjoy the game more, play more, and likely spend more money. Good for the developers, no?
Actually...I'd like this over keys, but keys seemed a less radical change that wouldn't cause issues with rates at which you get your characters gear.
That would be quite unfair towards players that might not have much time to play during weekdays (because of work or school), but would like to do multiple dungeon runs on weekends.
I'm not really sure if there is a solution that would be fair for everyone. Each and every solution (both existing and suggested) may be considered unfair towards a particular group of players - either casual, hard-core or somewhere in between. I'm not really a fan of the current system but can't say I am all for introducing DD keys instead. As with the current system, a key-based system would cause some dungeons to be almost empty all the time (as most ppl would grind T2/CN/MC/VT with their keys every day). I don't know about others but I enjoy all dungeons and would like to run all of them for free, without time pressure and 1-hour slots; and a DD chest is always this one little cherry on top that you have even if you end up with nothing else from party loot rolls. I'd rather save my ADs to buy Enchanted Keys / ZEN / companions / fashion items with them and not on DD keys.
Wait, the Dungeon on one hand is too easy (for those of high gear score). But yet also someone with the current proper gear score needs to be carried, implying it is also too hard.
You also suggest raising the GS for dungeons, while admitting it will lock players out further either due to lack of GS, or player's fussyness for perfect parties and inflated GS.
And no the auction house is not the solution to get your gear score up to run the dungeons as some users seem to think is the answer.
Wanting to remove the DD chests all together is a horrible idea aimed at pushing new players to the AH instead of giving them a realistic opportunity to gear themselves up.
Also, scrapping gear score requirements for dungeons, and setting them up so you have to complete them in some order, defeating one to unlock the next sounds like a decent idea, but after your second or third character, that's going to get really old too, unless those unlocks are account wide instead of character based.
Yes they are hard at min GS, that's why the min GS should be raised, to lock out ppls from doing T2s as soon as they hit 60, because they can't complete it. Let them do T1s first, let them learn a bit about their role in a group, get at least 1-2 pieces of purple equipment, rank 5 enchants, etc before entering T2s, otherwise you'll see people complaining that dungeons are too hard, they should be made easier, when it's not, they just entered unprepared. You can't hope to complete a T2 dungeon wearing greens and knowing nothing about your class, that's not how it supposed to work. A few more "tone downs" and the dungeons become doable by bots, all you would need is 15k+ gs, and a bot that can handle fights. It won't be as fast as doing manually, but you could start 5 clients and let the bots play for you while you make a ton of AD and completely destroy the economy.
I like this game and don't want to see it destroyed by botters, but don't want to turn the into a veteran only game either. I've seen both happening in other games and neither is fun. Something needs to be done to prevent this from happening, and changing the DD in a way that doesn't completely lock out casuals, but prevents players with a lot of time from destroying the game is a good start. And no, don't make everything BoP, that's not a solution, that will only make things worse.
EDIT: Also, removing the DD chest, will make things easier for the casual player, because the prices of non-set items & t2 jewelry will be much higher. As of now t2 necklaces worth nothing even though they only give 4/4/4 less stat then their ancient counterpart, but since ancient items don't drop from chests, like t2 items do, there are less of them on the AH making them much more valuable. For example an Ancient Excorcist necklace goes for 100k-120k, while the Grand Excorcist necklace goes around salvage price (6k), becuase they drop as BoE from DD chests. The same is true for shards, if you couldn't farm PK for vorpal shards, they would cost much more, and on the rare occasion you get one, it will get you much more AD than now, not to talk about the other shard, which atm costs nothing. It's true for non-set items too, their prices will go up, since T2 set items will be much harder to get, so people will start using non-set items, until they can get their set. The only exception to this would be the ancient weapon sets, since the VT ones (dread legion set) are easier to get, and are almost as good as the CN ones.
2) no, T2's arent supposed to be done at 14k GS, they shouldnt be scaled with newly added content as they are meant for not that equiped players + what is said in 1)
3) yes, would be nice to choose when i want to go dungeon for a reward and not to choose if i can go when is event up
4) isnt it partially what they already do with each module? but i agree that 1 dungeon isnt enough for whole T3 set, it should be 1 dungeon per piece of set